3 ms·

This is really distorting the literal meaning of "years of experience". The "1 year repeated 5 times" sentiment does the same thing. To do these conversions, y

This is really distorting the literal meaning of "years of experience". The "1 year repeated 5 times" sentiment does the same thing. To do these conversions, you'd need a solid understanding of what each YOE entails, and there is no good or widely accepted definition on that, otherwise it would be the hiring standard and career path standard. I only say this because you can't literally put down that you gained 6 YOE on your resume - you will instead convert it to milestones and accomplishments and deliverables, all of which are completely understandable concepts and better suited to get your point across. Time to drop this flawed thinking IMO

Swizec 2y ago
There is 1 aspect of YOE that literally is tied to actual years and cannot be rushed. I will die on this hill. You are not a senior, if you haven’t stuck around on a project/product for 3 years to experience the lifecycle of your own amazing decisions turning into that awful stuff you need to maintain. It takes about 3 years, longer if you’re lucky. Cannot be rushed. The most dangerous engineers have about 5 years of experience. They have the skills and the big brains, but not yet the wisdom to keep it in check.
- brianmcc 2y ago
  Totally. 5 years of - build and ship - then move around - repeat Is sorely lacking in vital important experience towards becoming a rounded senior.
- bluGill 2y ago
  You need to stick around for 10 years or more. I've been on my current project for 15 years, and only now am I realizing how some of the things I did back then were bad. Now I'm stuck with those decisions, or I'm stuck trying to figure out how to fix them.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Well, if salary compression wasn’t a thing and companies kept internal raises consistent with market rates, that might be tenable.
    - bluGill 2y ago
      Big companies give a 7-10% raise to everyone every few years to get back to competitive. I agree this is a big problem with the industry, but the C suite doesn't realize that. I always check the yearly inflation rate just before raises are announced to see how my raise compares to inflation - as a senior engineer I don't expect a raise anymore, I expect my salary to match inflation though. Often I get a pay cut every year instead. It has gotten bad enough that I moved (I found a transfer in the same company which came with a raise to the next pay grade - in that in turn pushed the old management to realize they had real problems with not giving promotions and a bunch of people who didn't move finally got their deserved promotion)
- hnthrow90348765 2y ago
  A great reason why I don't like the 1 year repeated thing
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    It doesn’t matter. This is just the way the industry works. You will be looked at with suspicion if you stayed at one company for too long working on project doing maintenance.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  I mean if you look at the leveling guidelines of every single tech company that I’m aware of, “senior” is defined by “scope”, “impact” and “dealing with ambiguity”. They may state it different ways. But it all boils down to this. You are not a “senior” if you spent 3 years pulling tickets off the board with well defined business goals. Sources: https://www.levels.fyi/blog/swe-level-framework.html https://www.levels.fyi/blog/swe-level-framework.html https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ (The only BigTech company I have worked for) https://www.levels.fyi/blog/amazon-leveling-progress.html https://www.levels.fyi/blog/amazon-leveling-progress.html
  - Swizec 2y ago
    I agree. I would add that it’s best if those 3 years were spent growing a product rather than bouncing around the company (or companies) doing whatever comes.
throw310822 2y ago
It's interesting because the example he makes (a person that has worked 5 years on the same things, vs one that has had more varied tasks) makes me think the opposite of what he claims: the person working the same job for five years gained five years of experience in that job; the other one, has a one year experience in each of the various things he did. Of course there's a good balance between repetition and variation, but beware of those who have written terrible junior code in a lot of different technologies.

Swizec 2y ago

There is 1 aspect of YOE that literally is tied to actual years and cannot be rushed. I will die on this hill. You are not a senior, if you haven’t stuck around on a project/product for 3 years to experience the lifecycle of your own amazing decisions turning into that awful stuff you need to maintain. It takes about 3 years, longer if you’re lucky. Cannot be rushed. The most dangerous engineers have about 5 years of experience. They have the skills and the big brains, but not yet the wisdom to keep it in check.

brianmcc 2y ago
Totally. 5 years of - build and ship - then move around - repeat Is sorely lacking in vital important experience towards becoming a rounded senior.
bluGill 2y ago
You need to stick around for 10 years or more. I've been on my current project for 15 years, and only now am I realizing how some of the things I did back then were bad. Now I'm stuck with those decisions, or I'm stuck trying to figure out how to fix them.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Well, if salary compression wasn’t a thing and companies kept internal raises consistent with market rates, that might be tenable.
  - bluGill 2y ago
    Big companies give a 7-10% raise to everyone every few years to get back to competitive. I agree this is a big problem with the industry, but the C suite doesn't realize that. I always check the yearly inflation rate just before raises are announced to see how my raise compares to inflation - as a senior engineer I don't expect a raise anymore, I expect my salary to match inflation though. Often I get a pay cut every year instead. It has gotten bad enough that I moved (I found a transfer in the same company which came with a raise to the next pay grade - in that in turn pushed the old management to realize they had real problems with not giving promotions and a bunch of people who didn't move finally got their deserved promotion)
hnthrow90348765 2y ago
A great reason why I don't like the 1 year repeated thing
- scarface_74 2y ago
  It doesn’t matter. This is just the way the industry works. You will be looked at with suspicion if you stayed at one company for too long working on project doing maintenance.
scarface_74 2y ago
I mean if you look at the leveling guidelines of every single tech company that I’m aware of, “senior” is defined by “scope”, “impact” and “dealing with ambiguity”. They may state it different ways. But it all boils down to this. You are not a “senior” if you spent 3 years pulling tickets off the board with well defined business goals. Sources: https://www.levels.fyi/blog/swe-level-framework.html https://www.levels.fyi/blog/swe-level-framework.html https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ https://dropbox.github.io/dbx-career-framework/ (The only BigTech company I have worked for) https://www.levels.fyi/blog/amazon-leveling-progress.html https://www.levels.fyi/blog/amazon-leveling-progress.html
- Swizec 2y ago
  I agree. I would add that it’s best if those 3 years were spent growing a product rather than bouncing around the company (or companies) doing whatever comes.

throw310822 2y ago

It's interesting because the example he makes (a person that has worked 5 years on the same things, vs one that has had more varied tasks) makes me think the opposite of what he claims: the person working the same job for five years gained five years of experience in that job; the other one, has a one year experience in each of the various things he did. Of course there's a good balance between repetition and variation, but beware of those who have written terrible junior code in a lot of different technologies.