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Life expectancy growth stalls across Europe as England sees sharpest decline
- tayo42 2y agoThat's kind of interesting. We always hear how much healthier Europe is then the US and there's always though things like American food is so fake it can't be sold in Europe. Seems the same problems are spreading or were always kind of there? Been to Europe a couple times and I didn't think it seemed that much healthier. Italy especially, I put a ton of weight durring a vacation there.
- moi2388 2y agoLife expectancy in these countries is still 2-4 years higher than the US..
- tayo42 2y agoThis article talks about food and BMI related problems though. The low US life expectancy is mostly from cultural problems IIRC? Drug over doses like from oxycodone and gun violence.
- ElFitz 2y agoAnd ultra-processed foods and associated dietary patterns. They may be spreading far and wide, but these have been popular in the US for longer. https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/ultraprocessed-foods-bad-for-you https://www.yalemedicine.org/news/ultraprocessed-foods-bad-f... https://www.mayoclinichealthsystem.org/hometown-health/speaking-of-health/processed-foods-what-you-should-know https://www.mayoclinichealthsystem.org/hometown-health/speak... https://post.parliament.uk/research-briefings/post-pb-0059/ https://post.parliament.uk/research-briefings/post-pb-0059/ https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-magazine/news/behind-the-headlines/ultra-processed-foods https://www.bhf.org.uk/informationsupport/heart-matters-maga... https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/how-to-eat-a-balanced-diet/what-are-processed-foods/ https://www.nhs.uk/live-well/eat-well/how-to-eat-a-balanced-...
- orwin 2y agoHALE is a better indicator, as it include health: https://data.who.int/indicators/i/48D9B0C/C64284D https://data.who.int/indicators/i/48D9B0C/C64284D On average, USians live 13 year after they are considered "non-healthy". French, Spaniards, Italians live only 10 years after being considered "non-healthy) *this include demention and/or autonomy loss obviously), but live 4 more years total.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> USians Wat.
- defrost 2y agoCentral North Americans. As used by, say, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41344607 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=41344607 and other https://hn.algolia.com/?query=USians&sort=byDate&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?query=USians&sort=byDate&type=commen...
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> Central North Americans Got it, we're all playing Gulf of America now.
- defrost 2y agoSure, if by 'now' you mean since the 1980s on Usenet at least . . . (I've been a regular user for decades, it's common enough outside the English as a primary language North North American bubble .. it's interesting seeing it make inroads on HN in the past few years) FWiW the @tptacek usage I linked was from five months ago, prior to that little USofA parochial renaming fit .. although it does highlight that everyone about the "Gulf of Mexico (Gulf of America)" is, indeed, an American and it makes sense to differentiate them by country.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
- orwin 2y agoHALE (Health Life expectancy) is 7 years higher than the US, across western Europe.
- conception 2y agoThe NHS getting cuts and other systems at risk is the probable answer, not the food. If you take care of your people, they live better lives.
- tayo42 2y agoThe article says its from heart disease and cancer and believe its tied to increasing BMI from diets and poor life style choices.
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoThose two also seem like diseases you get left with after you've been raising life expectancy for decades by avoiding death from other diseases, which is a more positive framing. But people and societies can probably still make better choices in regard to the current priority diseases.
- cbeach 2y agoThe NHS has had real-terms funding increases for many years https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/data-and-charts/nhs-budget-nutshell https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/insight-and-analysis/data-and-c... If its cost continues to outpace inflation and GDP growth, it will consume an ever-larger share of the wealth generated by the private sector until it becomes unaffordable. The current model is unsustainable. If you’ve had to visit an A&E recently or request an ambulance, you’ll know that the whole system is unfit for purpose and needs a rethink (not just another huge cash injection).
- iamthemonster 2y agoThe article is saying that life expectancy is still improving in Europe, but it's improving at a slower pace than it used to improve in the past. In the United States, life expectancy started diverging from Western Europe in the early 90s and has had zero improvement in the last 15 years while Western Europe has continued to slowly improve. The pandemic hit US life expectancy figures incredibly hard due to the very high levels of excess death compared to Western Europe, but presumably there might be a 'bounceback' due to natural selection of the aged population with the strongest immune systems and fewest comorbidities. I've heard a lot of Americans comment on putting on a lot of weight while travelling in Europe. I can only imagine that Americans would be more accustomed to eating out for more of their meals. When cooking at home, I found the French to have a good sense of portion sizing and a cultural aversion to overeating; the sensation of being completely full was often described with a sense of discomfort and disgust. Whereas in Anglo cultures, being completely full is treated more positively.
- tayo42 2y agoOther countries I didn't feel like I had a weight issue. Specifically italy, it was lots of bread and pasta, slow cooked fatty meats, deep fried dishes, and sweet pastries.
- ElFitz 2y agoYes. But it’s hard to beat processed food.
- toyg 2y agoIn restaurants, yes, we eat salty, fatty, overcaloric stuff - because that is celebration food, not everyday fare. At home, day in day out, we cook leaner, simpler stuff, and eat less. Also, Italians tend to live in urban centers, often walking or cycling rather than driving everywhere. I've been living in the UK for 20+ years, and every time I land back in Italy I suddenly feel obese, because people are so much thinner. After a few weeks of normal life there, I know why: I'm eating less, eating leaner, and moving more.
- ElFitz 2y agoAnd yet, the country with the sharpest decline is the one where the diet converged toward the US’s the earliest. It’s also the first one to shatter their health system in an effort to emulate the US one.
- danielscrubs 2y agoThe average healthspan is approximately 70.7 years in the EU, compared to 63.9 years in the US, meaning Europeans tend to live longer in good health than Americans. But averages kind of sucks for comparison. Id be interested to see the median of each country.
- wqaatwt 2y agoAdjusting by location, race and other factors makes a significant difference as well. e.g. Hispanics generally have comparable life expectancy to top 10 European countries in most states. If you exclude the Black and non-Hispanic White population California is on par or above Spain and Italy (interestingly enough obesity is much more prevalent amongst the Latino than white population there). (Asians are of course even higher but you have to take wealth/education into account)
- danielscrubs 2y agoYou are aware that europeans too very, very large minority populations? I mean Sweden alone have over 15% of its population speaking arabic. Taking a group from one area and comparing to a subgroup from another area doesn’t seem fair.
- wqaatwt 2y agoI assume statistics could be found for that subpopulation. And well.. I only mentioned Spain and Italy, not Sweden. Regardless this seems besides the point? I just found it interesting that Hispanic Americans live longer than non-Hispanic whites despite being poorer and more overweight. They must be doing something right.
- manuelmoreale 2y ago> Italy especially, I put a ton of weight durring a vacation there. What a bizarre datapoint this is. What should the fact you put on weight during a vacation prove? I can go anywhere in the world, eat like shit and just do nothing but sitting by the pool for the entire time I’m there and I’d probably come back home with added weight. The fact that the United States rank 19th in the obesity ranking for example when Italy is 132nd is a better datapoint if you ask me. Doesn’t tell the full picture of course, there are a million factors that contribute.
- tayo42 2y agoThere doesn't seem to be anything inherently healthy or special about European food. But this is a thing people say quite often and I think people believe if only we had more laws or w/e like Europe has the people of the US would suddenly be fitter.
- wqaatwt 2y ago> healthy or special about European food Well no… but stuff like various leafy greens amongst other things seem be relatively extremely cheap in Italy compared to some other European countries to the North. This applies to some other products too. The outcome is that it’s relatively cheaper to have a healthier diet and therefore more expensive to eat ultra-processed crap. Of course at the end of the day individuals have to make that choice.
- manuelmoreale 2y agoWhen people say food they’re usually not referring to the raw materials. They're talking about the food they eat when they’re abroad and is a reflection of the cuisine and the culture. Also, talking about European food is a massive generalization considering how diverse the place is.
- benterix 2y ago> There doesn't seem to be anything inherently healthy or special about European food. It depends how you look at it.[0] > In the US, the FDA takes a notably more hands-off approach to testing and inspections, often allowing new food ingredients unless proven harmful. This includes ingredients, for example, GMOs, growth hormones and chemical preservatives. In Europe, the EFSA requires additives to be proven safe before approval and has banned the use of growth hormones and several chemical additives. > These differing philosophies lead to certain additives being allowed in the US and banned in Europe. For instance, these eight ingredients are commonly used in the US but not in Europe: rBGH (rBST) – Growth hormone, Ractopamine – Increases lean muscle in animal stock, Potassium bromate – Makes baked goods whiter and increases volume, Brominate vegetable oil – Used to keep flavors from separating in beverages, Olestra – Fat substitute, Azodicarbonamide – Used to bleach flour Coloring agents – Red #40, yellow #6, yellow #5, blue #1, BHA and BHT – Preservatives [0] https://www.tilleydistribution.com/insights/food-regulations-in-europe-vs-the-us https://www.tilleydistribution.com/insights/food-regulations...
- arez 2y agoyou were probably eating tons of pizza and noodles in restaurants while on vacation. But the people that life there, A: don't go to restaurants every day B: are they eating pizza everyday and C: have probably healthier behaviors than you, like using a bike tonget around etc.
- ZeroGravitas 2y agoThis does the same thing the wave of EV sales stories last year did and seems to intentionally muddy a slowdown in growth vs an absolute reduction for more clickbait factor. In both cases you'd logically and mathmatically expect a slowdown unless you expect 900 year old people driving 6 cars at once. edit: also worth noting that the decade with the slower growth included a couple of years with absolute life expectancy drops due to COVID, though one of the points the original paper tries to make is that a) there was a slowdown before that happened so it's not just a COVID effect, and they point to lifestyle factors contributing to heart disease and cancer b) the countries with greater slowdown pre-COVID were also harder hit by COVID, presumably because the population was sicker and or the health system worse.
- sharpshadow 2y agoRidiculous still no mentioned of the mammoth in the room. As some triple dose of modern vaccines in a short period of time must be ignored fanatically. It’s the food as anything changed significantly recently.
- d1sxeyes 2y agoThis whole thing is a completely farcical article because: It’s nearly 5 years out of date. Life expectancy is still growing, just no longer at the rate it was. The rate of people stopping smoking has also reduced (as fewer and fewer people smoke). This “vaccines” thing would not have been included in the data which covers up to 2021 (or at least, any effect of vaccines would be lost in the data due to the fact COVID was still itself having a big impact on life expectancy).
- sharpshadow 2y agoThe data for excess deaths during covid and during covid with vaccination is slowly available and we will be able to distinguish between the two. After all it’s clear to say that the covid pandemic with all its conditions and the covid vaccine in various ways both contributed towards a reduced life expectancy, denying that is just crazy in my eyes and leaving it out of the discussion is a crime against humanity.
- d1sxeyes 2y agoDo you have any evidence that vaccines contributed to reduced life expectancy?
- sharpshadow 2y agoHeuristically the appliance of the covid vaccine caused more damage than it prevented. That's already a net negative on health ergo life expectancy, since many of the side effects are not in the category of "what dosen't kill you makes you stronger".