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> And cumulatively, these things are not cheap, A few decades ago you'd be completely right - but these days, tools are cheaper than ever. Washing machine hos

> And cumulatively, these things are not cheap, A few decades ago you'd be completely right - but these days, tools are cheaper than ever. Washing machine hose, £7 [1] Hole saws, £8 [2] Wrench £8 [3] Spade drill bits £6 [4] Adequate drill £35 [5] So £64 for the lot - about US$ 80. If you're in tech, the value of the time you spend driving to the store will probably be higher than all the tools you'll buy while you're there. And if you're thinking "Oh at those prices the tools will be low quality" I can assure you, they'll be good enough for this job. [1] https://www.toolstation.com/washing-machine-hose/p17946 https://www.toolstation.com/washing-machine-hose/p17946 [2] https://www.toolstation.com/holesaw-kit/p23014 https://www.toolstation.com/holesaw-kit/p23014 [3] https://www.toolstation.com/minotaur-water-pump-pliers/p83250 https://www.toolstation.com/minotaur-water-pump-pliers/p8325... [4] https://www.toolstation.com/flat-wood-drill-bit-set/p44945 https://www.toolstation.com/flat-wood-drill-bit-set/p44945 [5] https://www.toolstation.com/black-decker-500w-hammer-drill/p47968 https://www.toolstation.com/black-decker-500w-hammer-drill/p...

subhro 2y ago
> So £64 for the lot - about US$ 80. If you're in tech, the value of the time you spend driving to the store will probably be higher than all the tools you'll buy while you're there. Unless you are billing by the hour (ie in consulting), you are driving to the store during the time you would be parking your butt in the couch and viewing, reading or thinking about something that does not generate cash. At least that is what it is for me. If you literally lose money by driving to the store, your argument holds. > And if you're thinking "Oh at those prices the tools will be low quality" I can assure you, they'll be good enough for this job. Maybe they are, maybe they are not. I tinker with cars and motorcycles. Every single piece of my tools is Snap-On or something really comparable. If I use a cheap Chinese brand and round off a nut, that is really going to hurt. It will hurt more than what it hurt to buy a socket set for close to $200. Also, if you are approaching something the first time, low quality tools will get you bad experience that will resist, maybe prevent you from trying it again. I might be one of those weird ones, but for me, Buy once, cry once.
- andiareso 2y ago
  I agree that some high quality tools are required to not escalate your problem, but I like the incremental purchase methodology for most tools. Buying cheap (good enough) allows you to figure out what tools you actually need to upgrade on. I had a lot of pain in my high school days fixing a beater car which required me to purchase some higher end socket sets. You learn from some of those stripped bolts which tools to upgrade, but you don't want a whole garage full of high quality tools you don't really use. If you have a stable hobby, buy quality first, and maybe build up inventory when you can so you don't have to make frequent trips. If you don't and you just want to do some odd things spanning multiple trades, buy cheap and upgrade if you rely on them frequently.
- vlachen 2y ago
  I've turned a few wrenches as a life-long DIY mechanic, a former aircraft mechanic, and a mechanical engineer. I use the Hazard Fraught method of tool purchases: I will buy a tool from Harbor Freight once. If it fulfills my needs great. Job done and it goes into the toolbox. If I use it so hard it gives up the ghost, then it gets chucked into the fuckit-bucket and I go buy it at higher quality. To be honest, Harbor Freight and other store brands (Husky, Kobalt, etc) have always been reliable enough. As a home-gamer, I certainly couldn't see being able to have a toolbox full of Snap-On, especially before completing my engineering degree. If I were a pro and feeding my family depended on what those tools did, then I could certainly see Snap-On as an investment, as my father did when he ran his own shop. But, to the point about rounding off a nut, something like that is rarely a function of tool quality and more about technique. Yes, a cheap 12 point socket or wrench can round off a hex pretty badly, but if it happens, the whole setup has probably been giving warning signs the entire time. My experience is that cheap tools are more likely to snap, break, or shatter during heavy loading, but that's not often the default use case.
  - subhro 2y ago
    > I've turned a few wrenches as a life-long DIY mechanic, a former aircraft mechanic, and a mechanical engineer. I use the Hazard Fraught method of tool purchases: I will buy a tool from Harbor Freight once. If it fulfills my needs great. Job done and it goes into the toolbox. If I use it so hard it gives up the ghost, then it gets chucked into the fuckit-bucket and I go buy it at higher quality. Now you either have a tool that might be unreliable and can cause you trouble for the next job. Or, you spent money that you didn't have to spend by buying the lower grade tool when you needed to buy something better anyway. > To be honest, Harbor Freight and other store brands (Husky, Kobalt, etc) have always been reliable enough. As a home-gamer, I certainly couldn't see being able to have a toolbox full of Snap-On, especially before completing my engineering degree. Here you have a solid point. I am thankful that I am able to afford good tools. But if someone in unable to justify, I would say either work to be able to justify it, rent, or buy the best you can afford if you need the tool right now. > But, to the point about rounding off a nut, something like that is rarely a function of tool quality and more about technique. Maybe you are right. But here is an exaggerated example. You have a socket that has more clearance than ideal. You loosen one nut, and that was okay, you loosen the second one, that was a little tighter and that whole setup flexed a bit, but turned out okay. The third one is where things slip. Now, you have a problem. At least that is more or less how I land into trouble.
Forgeties79 2y ago
On the flip side, it gets harder and harder every year to find speciality tools and parts the moment you need them. Nothing’s worse than setting aside a weekend for some big project and then finding out you have to order something online and pick the project back up some other day. God forbid you recall you had the part/tool in question at one time lol. Even when I plan in advance often something comes up I don’t catch until the moment I need it. I keep a LOT of computer/video game console parts but luckily with some planning and decent geometry skills (and a lot of straps) they’re easier to store. Camera and audio equipment on the other hand…time for a purge if I’m being honest!
skeeter2020 2y ago
my strategy: when you're young and especially if you happen to be buying your first home, buy the cheap version of almost everything as you need it. Minor exceptions for things you KNOW you will use a lot (but they still don't need to be the most expensive). If you like certain jobs, selectively upgrade over the years. If you move a lot or age out of certain things, cull aggressively. Good tools have decent resale value if they're not consumer grade. All consumer grade tools have the same low (but non-zero) resale value IME. YMMV. P.S. Anyone looking for a quality router with a selection of bits?
- HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
  Yep. That's how I ended up with a $79 Harbor Freight drill press that's seen more than 30 years of regular use.
kccqzy 2y ago
> If you're in tech, the value of the time you spend driving to the store will probably be higher than all the tools you'll buy while you're there. This is the wrong way to think about things. You cannot usefully compare the value of time spent on work vs on hobby. If I'm doing a project like installing the washing machine myself over the weekend, I value my time at exactly $0/hour. Let's look at the opportunity cost. What are the alternatives? On a weekend I could read a book, go out for a walk, play some games, etc; all those alternatives cause my income to increase by $0/hour. There is no difference in income amongst all these activities; there is only a difference in satisfaction. You might say, what if you do this washing machine installation during regular work hours? Again the value of your time is zero, because in tech you are not an hourly employee: you get paid a fixed salary. Taking one hour off from work doesn't decrease your salary. Working overtime for one hour also doesn't increase your salary. Therefore when I'm doing hobby projects I value my time at $0/hour. I think more about the kind of non-monetary satisfaction instead.
- Johnny555 2y ago
  >If I'm doing a project like installing the washing machine myself over the weekend, I value my time at exactly $0/hour If I'm doing a project I want to do because it's a fun challenge (like the time I replaced the main pump in my dishwasher), I value my time at $0/hour. But if it's a project I don't really want to do (like pulling ethernet cables through my cramped and dirty crawl space so I can put in an ethernet jack next to the TV), then I value my time at twice my hourly wage and if I can hire someone to do it cheaper, I hire them. It's true that I get paid the same $0 on a weekend whether I'm crawling under my house or going on a hike, I'm willing to pay money to get out of an unpleasant task so I can do something pleasant instead.
- Phlebsy 2y ago
  > This is the wrong way to think about things. You cannot usefully compare the value of time spent on work vs on hobby. I'd consider this sort of move of house maintenance to be more of a chore than a hobby project, though maybe that's just because I've already done it before and it's not interesting or satisfying to do it again. In any case - I do agree that attempting to apply the same thinking to the hours spent in day to day tasks as work needs to be done very mindfully, or even carefully. One of the worst practices I had early in my career when I was freelancing and had a few clients that were happy to give me as many hours as I wanted to take was to use that as an excuse to replace other tasks with work. Paying someone else to do 30 minutes of grocery shopping so that I can work an extra half hour and end up with a profit, ordering lunch multiple times per week because the time it'd take me to cook and clean up would end up 'costing' me more than just continuing to work on something I enjoyed. Before you know it you start thinking of chores as complete wastes of time rather than normal things that are good for your character to be able to do consistently. Ended up with a significantly better financial outlook than I'd have had otherwise since I had the work ethic/life balance to take advantage of that situation and not completely tank other aspects of my life, but looking back I'd rather have kept the more mundane discipline.

subhro 2y ago

> So £64 for the lot - about US$ 80. If you're in tech, the value of the time you spend driving to the store will probably be higher than all the tools you'll buy while you're there. Unless you are billing by the hour (ie in consulting), you are driving to the store during the time you would be parking your butt in the couch and viewing, reading or thinking about something that does not generate cash. At least that is what it is for me. If you literally lose money by driving to the store, your argument holds. > And if you're thinking "Oh at those prices the tools will be low quality" I can assure you, they'll be good enough for this job. Maybe they are, maybe they are not. I tinker with cars and motorcycles. Every single piece of my tools is Snap-On or something really comparable. If I use a cheap Chinese brand and round off a nut, that is really going to hurt. It will hurt more than what it hurt to buy a socket set for close to $200. Also, if you are approaching something the first time, low quality tools will get you bad experience that will resist, maybe prevent you from trying it again. I might be one of those weird ones, but for me, Buy once, cry once.

andiareso 2y ago
I agree that some high quality tools are required to not escalate your problem, but I like the incremental purchase methodology for most tools. Buying cheap (good enough) allows you to figure out what tools you actually need to upgrade on. I had a lot of pain in my high school days fixing a beater car which required me to purchase some higher end socket sets. You learn from some of those stripped bolts which tools to upgrade, but you don't want a whole garage full of high quality tools you don't really use. If you have a stable hobby, buy quality first, and maybe build up inventory when you can so you don't have to make frequent trips. If you don't and you just want to do some odd things spanning multiple trades, buy cheap and upgrade if you rely on them frequently.
vlachen 2y ago
I've turned a few wrenches as a life-long DIY mechanic, a former aircraft mechanic, and a mechanical engineer. I use the Hazard Fraught method of tool purchases: I will buy a tool from Harbor Freight once. If it fulfills my needs great. Job done and it goes into the toolbox. If I use it so hard it gives up the ghost, then it gets chucked into the fuckit-bucket and I go buy it at higher quality. To be honest, Harbor Freight and other store brands (Husky, Kobalt, etc) have always been reliable enough. As a home-gamer, I certainly couldn't see being able to have a toolbox full of Snap-On, especially before completing my engineering degree. If I were a pro and feeding my family depended on what those tools did, then I could certainly see Snap-On as an investment, as my father did when he ran his own shop. But, to the point about rounding off a nut, something like that is rarely a function of tool quality and more about technique. Yes, a cheap 12 point socket or wrench can round off a hex pretty badly, but if it happens, the whole setup has probably been giving warning signs the entire time. My experience is that cheap tools are more likely to snap, break, or shatter during heavy loading, but that's not often the default use case.
- subhro 2y ago
  > I've turned a few wrenches as a life-long DIY mechanic, a former aircraft mechanic, and a mechanical engineer. I use the Hazard Fraught method of tool purchases: I will buy a tool from Harbor Freight once. If it fulfills my needs great. Job done and it goes into the toolbox. If I use it so hard it gives up the ghost, then it gets chucked into the fuckit-bucket and I go buy it at higher quality. Now you either have a tool that might be unreliable and can cause you trouble for the next job. Or, you spent money that you didn't have to spend by buying the lower grade tool when you needed to buy something better anyway. > To be honest, Harbor Freight and other store brands (Husky, Kobalt, etc) have always been reliable enough. As a home-gamer, I certainly couldn't see being able to have a toolbox full of Snap-On, especially before completing my engineering degree. Here you have a solid point. I am thankful that I am able to afford good tools. But if someone in unable to justify, I would say either work to be able to justify it, rent, or buy the best you can afford if you need the tool right now. > But, to the point about rounding off a nut, something like that is rarely a function of tool quality and more about technique. Maybe you are right. But here is an exaggerated example. You have a socket that has more clearance than ideal. You loosen one nut, and that was okay, you loosen the second one, that was a little tighter and that whole setup flexed a bit, but turned out okay. The third one is where things slip. Now, you have a problem. At least that is more or less how I land into trouble.

Forgeties79 2y ago

On the flip side, it gets harder and harder every year to find speciality tools and parts the moment you need them. Nothing’s worse than setting aside a weekend for some big project and then finding out you have to order something online and pick the project back up some other day. God forbid you recall you had the part/tool in question at one time lol. Even when I plan in advance often something comes up I don’t catch until the moment I need it. I keep a LOT of computer/video game console parts but luckily with some planning and decent geometry skills (and a lot of straps) they’re easier to store. Camera and audio equipment on the other hand…time for a purge if I’m being honest!

skeeter2020 2y ago

my strategy: when you're young and especially if you happen to be buying your first home, buy the cheap version of almost everything as you need it. Minor exceptions for things you KNOW you will use a lot (but they still don't need to be the most expensive). If you like certain jobs, selectively upgrade over the years. If you move a lot or age out of certain things, cull aggressively. Good tools have decent resale value if they're not consumer grade. All consumer grade tools have the same low (but non-zero) resale value IME. YMMV. P.S. Anyone looking for a quality router with a selection of bits?

HeyLaughingBoy 2y ago
Yep. That's how I ended up with a $79 Harbor Freight drill press that's seen more than 30 years of regular use.

kccqzy 2y ago

> If you're in tech, the value of the time you spend driving to the store will probably be higher than all the tools you'll buy while you're there. This is the wrong way to think about things. You cannot usefully compare the value of time spent on work vs on hobby. If I'm doing a project like installing the washing machine myself over the weekend, I value my time at exactly $0/hour. Let's look at the opportunity cost. What are the alternatives? On a weekend I could read a book, go out for a walk, play some games, etc; all those alternatives cause my income to increase by $0/hour. There is no difference in income amongst all these activities; there is only a difference in satisfaction. You might say, what if you do this washing machine installation during regular work hours? Again the value of your time is zero, because in tech you are not an hourly employee: you get paid a fixed salary. Taking one hour off from work doesn't decrease your salary. Working overtime for one hour also doesn't increase your salary. Therefore when I'm doing hobby projects I value my time at $0/hour. I think more about the kind of non-monetary satisfaction instead.

Johnny555 2y ago
>If I'm doing a project like installing the washing machine myself over the weekend, I value my time at exactly $0/hour If I'm doing a project I want to do because it's a fun challenge (like the time I replaced the main pump in my dishwasher), I value my time at $0/hour. But if it's a project I don't really want to do (like pulling ethernet cables through my cramped and dirty crawl space so I can put in an ethernet jack next to the TV), then I value my time at twice my hourly wage and if I can hire someone to do it cheaper, I hire them. It's true that I get paid the same $0 on a weekend whether I'm crawling under my house or going on a hike, I'm willing to pay money to get out of an unpleasant task so I can do something pleasant instead.
Phlebsy 2y ago
> This is the wrong way to think about things. You cannot usefully compare the value of time spent on work vs on hobby. I'd consider this sort of move of house maintenance to be more of a chore than a hobby project, though maybe that's just because I've already done it before and it's not interesting or satisfying to do it again. In any case - I do agree that attempting to apply the same thinking to the hours spent in day to day tasks as work needs to be done very mindfully, or even carefully. One of the worst practices I had early in my career when I was freelancing and had a few clients that were happy to give me as many hours as I wanted to take was to use that as an excuse to replace other tasks with work. Paying someone else to do 30 minutes of grocery shopping so that I can work an extra half hour and end up with a profit, ordering lunch multiple times per week because the time it'd take me to cook and clean up would end up 'costing' me more than just continuing to work on something I enjoyed. Before you know it you start thinking of chores as complete wastes of time rather than normal things that are good for your character to be able to do consistently. Ended up with a significantly better financial outlook than I'd have had otherwise since I had the work ethic/life balance to take advantage of that situation and not completely tank other aspects of my life, but looking back I'd rather have kept the more mundane discipline.