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Do they receive social security though? His tweet doesn’t explicitly say so, might be willfully omitted.

by __m 2y ago

cjbgkagh 2y ago
I don’t know, incomplete information all round. I consider it plausible but also consider Elon to be a rather unreliable source. Part of this seems like JJ Abram's mystery box storytelling where new mysteries are opened before the old mysteries are resolved - and when finally resolved the resolution is deeply unsatisfying. My experience with government is that where it’s not recklessly incompetent it is flagrantly corrupt, and increasingly so. To an extent I would not have believed had I not seen it myself. I completely understand why others may not share that belief. While I am in general support of taking a chainsaw to government, as opposed to a scalpel, I do wish it was better people doing it. That way when such crazy statements are made I could consider them likely true because the person stating them would not have done so without it being true. Elon has told too many falsehoods for me to give him the same benefit of the doubt.
- pbhjpbhj 2y ago
  When you say "government", do you mean the USA civil service, the subject of Musk's ire? >"where it’s not recklessly incompetent it is flagrantly corrupt" // Care to give a couple of the examples from your direct experience?
  - cjbgkagh 2y ago
    Just run of the mill stuff, pay-to-play to such an extent that everyone in a public service department that I sell software into all have jobs with vendors lined up for after they retire. They are very open about it. Most other vendors have been investigated for bribery by SFO, PNF and or FBI. Only a few stuck, I think they just bribe more people to make the other bribery charges go away. One that did stick was KBR, a subsidiary of Halliburton. Most vendors in my space seem to operate on a pyramid scheme where the money they take in from new deals has to pay for the consulting fees of the predecessors. I’m more interested in making good technology than dealing with the stress of all that so I try to compete on technical merits - which is tough.
- Spooky23 2y ago
  It’s a pretty pathetic argument that you support wielding the chainsaw, but preferably from a more desirable tyrant. Nobody who would agree to wielding the chainsaw in a democratic society is worthy of the privilege. People who share your nihilist perspective combined with solutions contrived from ignorance are why we’re here. And where we are going will redefine corruption.
diob 2y ago
It's absolutely willfully omitted. I guarantee 0 evidence of anything will ever come out, just shock headlines to make it seem like they're doing something.
lenerdenator 2y ago
They might, but that's irrelevant in a way. If they're 150 years old, they're dead, and if you claim the OASDI benefit of someone who is dead, you're committing a crime.
- pbhjpbhj 2y ago
  A brief search suggests it's inheritable in limited circumstances. Are you saying that's false? I'm recalling the posts about the last person claiming civil war pensions dying in 2020 (155 years after the war) and wondering if there is anything similar going on here.
  - lenerdenator 2y ago
    If it's designated by law to be inheritable then it's a moot point. It's also worth noting that OASDI is not the same as a Civil War pension. One was set up to support men who fought in service of the Federal government, the other was set up to keep the Old Aged, Survivors, and Disabled Insured. They're legally separate programs and thus have different statutes regulating who can draw benefit from them.
  - manquer 2y ago
    War pension claims like that were common and not fraud. The pension is claimed by the wife of the veteran , it was a practice to marry a very young girl very late in life partly because of the pension. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century#Helen_Viola_Jackson_(1919%E2%80%932020) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_wh... The person you are referring to was eligible as a disabled child of veteran https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_Triplett https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_Triplett There are many age curiosities out there like the fact the grandson of John Tyler the 10th president who was born in 1790 is still alive, I.e his grandfather was born 235 years ago! they are just that curiosities, not really fraud and even when it is one, it never significant just like voter fraud never turns out to be one .
  - dec0dedab0de 2y ago
    Even if that is the case, there should be an easy way to query that. even If they update the systems, and discover zero fraud or bad data it’s still a net win
enragedcacti 2y ago
An audit was completed in 2023 (using June 2021 data) where they found that of the 18.9 million aged 100+, approximately 44,000 were receiving payouts. UN data says there were ~90,000 centenarians in the US in 2021. https://oig.ssa.gov/assets/uploads/a-06-21-51022.pdf https://oig.ssa.gov/assets/uploads/a-06-21-51022.pdf https://www.bumc.bu.edu/centenarian/statistics/ https://www.bumc.bu.edu/centenarian/statistics/
Spooky23 2y ago
Social Security is incredibly complicated. There’s a canonical answer to every question. Someone like Elon doesn’t know or care about the details. There’s also a number of programs. SSI, Disabilty, Death Benefits, retirement, etc. Blind people are eligible for a benefit by law. Is there, somewhere in the United States, a disabled, blind child whose parents are deceased and whose birthdate is unknown? Almost certainly yes. Is that fraud? Only if you’re a “genius” who targets victims who can’t fight back to demonstrate his intellect.

Do they receive social security though? His tweet doesn’t explicitly say so, might be willfully omitted.

by __m 2y ago

Do they receive social security though? His tweet doesn’t explicitly say so, might be willfully omitted.

I don’t know, incomplete information all round. I consider it plausible but also consider Elon to be a rather unreliable source. Part of this seems like JJ Abram's mystery box storytelling where new mysteries are opened before the old mysteries are resolved - and when finally resolved the resolution is deeply unsatisfying. My experience with government is that where it’s not recklessly incompetent it is flagrantly corrupt, and increasingly so. To an extent I would not have believed had I not seen it myself. I completely understand why others may not share that belief. While I am in general support of taking a chainsaw to government, as opposed to a scalpel, I do wish it was better people doing it. That way when such crazy statements are made I could consider them likely true because the person stating them would not have done so without it being true. Elon has told too many falsehoods for me to give him the same benefit of the doubt.

pbhjpbhj 2y ago
When you say "government", do you mean the USA civil service, the subject of Musk's ire? >"where it’s not recklessly incompetent it is flagrantly corrupt" // Care to give a couple of the examples from your direct experience?
- cjbgkagh 2y ago
  Just run of the mill stuff, pay-to-play to such an extent that everyone in a public service department that I sell software into all have jobs with vendors lined up for after they retire. They are very open about it. Most other vendors have been investigated for bribery by SFO, PNF and or FBI. Only a few stuck, I think they just bribe more people to make the other bribery charges go away. One that did stick was KBR, a subsidiary of Halliburton. Most vendors in my space seem to operate on a pyramid scheme where the money they take in from new deals has to pay for the consulting fees of the predecessors. I’m more interested in making good technology than dealing with the stress of all that so I try to compete on technical merits - which is tough.
Spooky23 2y ago
It’s a pretty pathetic argument that you support wielding the chainsaw, but preferably from a more desirable tyrant. Nobody who would agree to wielding the chainsaw in a democratic society is worthy of the privilege. People who share your nihilist perspective combined with solutions contrived from ignorance are why we’re here. And where we are going will redefine corruption.

diob 2y ago

It's absolutely willfully omitted. I guarantee 0 evidence of anything will ever come out, just shock headlines to make it seem like they're doing something.

lenerdenator 2y ago

They might, but that's irrelevant in a way. If they're 150 years old, they're dead, and if you claim the OASDI benefit of someone who is dead, you're committing a crime.

pbhjpbhj 2y ago
A brief search suggests it's inheritable in limited circumstances. Are you saying that's false? I'm recalling the posts about the last person claiming civil war pensions dying in 2020 (155 years after the war) and wondering if there is anything similar going on here.
- lenerdenator 2y ago
  If it's designated by law to be inheritable then it's a moot point. It's also worth noting that OASDI is not the same as a Civil War pension. One was set up to support men who fought in service of the Federal government, the other was set up to keep the Old Aged, Survivors, and Disabled Insured. They're legally separate programs and thus have different statutes regulating who can draw benefit from them.
- manquer 2y ago
  War pension claims like that were common and not fraud. The pension is claimed by the wife of the veteran , it was a practice to marry a very young girl very late in life partly because of the pension. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_who_survived_into_the_21st_century#Helen_Viola_Jackson_(1919%E2%80%932020) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Civil_War_widows_wh... The person you are referring to was eligible as a disabled child of veteran https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_Triplett https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irene_Triplett There are many age curiosities out there like the fact the grandson of John Tyler the 10th president who was born in 1790 is still alive, I.e his grandfather was born 235 years ago! they are just that curiosities, not really fraud and even when it is one, it never significant just like voter fraud never turns out to be one .
- dec0dedab0de 2y ago
  Even if that is the case, there should be an easy way to query that. even If they update the systems, and discover zero fraud or bad data it’s still a net win

enragedcacti 2y ago

An audit was completed in 2023 (using June 2021 data) where they found that of the 18.9 million aged 100+, approximately 44,000 were receiving payouts. UN data says there were ~90,000 centenarians in the US in 2021. https://oig.ssa.gov/assets/uploads/a-06-21-51022.pdf https://oig.ssa.gov/assets/uploads/a-06-21-51022.pdf https://www.bumc.bu.edu/centenarian/statistics/ https://www.bumc.bu.edu/centenarian/statistics/

Spooky23 2y ago

Social Security is incredibly complicated. There’s a canonical answer to every question. Someone like Elon doesn’t know or care about the details. There’s also a number of programs. SSI, Disabilty, Death Benefits, retirement, etc. Blind people are eligible for a benefit by law. Is there, somewhere in the United States, a disabled, blind child whose parents are deceased and whose birthdate is unknown? Almost certainly yes. Is that fraud? Only if you’re a “genius” who targets victims who can’t fight back to demonstrate his intellect.