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What are you talking about? This isn't about Elon Musk. This is a SE thread about whether or not COBOL backdates to 1875, consensus being that it does not do th

What are you talking about? This isn't about Elon Musk. This is a SE thread about whether or not COBOL backdates to 1875, consensus being that it does not do that.

dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago
Musk is making claims without substantive evidence. Why do you think we're talking about it?
- fastball 2y ago
  No, the claim without substantive evidence is that COBOL backdates to 1875. If the source-of-truth for SS payments is the database and associated COBOL system, and that system reports payments being made to 150 year olds, that is bad. We should not be doing that. It doesn't matter if the birth date was deliberately added as 1875 or if the COBOL system replaces null date values with 1875 (which does not seem to be the case if you read the linked thread).
NoPicklez 2y ago
It is, I assume this post has been made because Elon recently said when he addressed the media next to Trump that they supposedly found people who were 150 years old collecting social security payments. What has followed is people coming out of the woodwork to explain how this may have been reflected in the system since the system was written in COBOL and the reasons why those people were reflected that way the system, that they likely weren't actually having those payments made and it there wasn't the wastage of tax payers money as Elon claims. Whereby citizens that don't have a recorded age are represented with an age of 0 and COBOL backdates their age from 1875. It seems to be Elon's DOGE team having access to data that they have little experience in reviewing and understanding and are spreading claims that are false. Google it.
- frugalmail 2y ago
  They specifically said these people are getting payments. That means whether the cause is accurate representation in the database, or inaccurate representation in the database, this linchpin data should invalidate any payments.
  - NoPicklez 2y ago
    Do they know that or do they think or assume that? There is supposedly an automated process to remove social security payments from people over the age of 115, unless there is an exception. https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202602578 https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202602578
    - fastball 2y ago
      Entirely possible that part of the system fails on whatever is causing there to be 150 year olds.
      - NoPicklez 2y ago
        There are a multitude of possibilities, of which none of them were addressed by Musk with no nuance at all.
        fastball 2y ago
        I don't think it is useful to do that in a press conference.
        NoPicklez 2y ago
        Neither is it useful to make such claims as he did so blatantly
        fastball 2y ago
        Well, it is useful for him, as (if it turns out to be mostly true) then it highlights how poorly operations in our government are. The only reason you have to believe that Musk's statements are not correct is the aforementioned inaccurate assertion about COBOL.
- fastball 2y ago
  You literally have that backwards. The misinfo is that COBOL would be back-dating to 1875, as is made clear by the linked StackExchange thread and anyone else that has actually used COBOL. Regardless, people without an accurate age in the Social Security database should not be getting payments either, even if they are not actually 150.
  - NoPicklez 2y ago
    Okay regardless of whether I had it backwards the intent of my post was still correct. That there may have been people in the system that were 150 years old, due to the COBOL language. And who says they actually were being paid, was that just assumed or did they find that people were inappropriately being paid? It is been circulated that there is an automated component that prevents that from happening if people are aged past 115 years old https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202602578 https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202602578 It is irresponsible to stand up in front of the Whitehouse and spew that there are people receiving social security payments that are 150 years old, without performing a formal inquiry into the matter or communicating the detail appropriately.
    - skissane 2y ago
      > That there may have been people in the system that were 150 years old, due to the COBOL language. Yes, but this is the whole aspect that is misinformation: there is no evidence that (alleged) “150 year old social security recipients” has anything to do with COBOL. That appears to be simply some speculative and likely incorrect theory that some random cooked up, and people that don’t know any better are repeating as fact It is entirely possible that Musk/DOGE’s claims about this topic will turn out to be incorrect - but if they do, then I very much doubt that the actual reason, whatever it may turn out to be, will be due to any feature of the COBOL language (or the implementation of it SSA is using)
      - NoPicklez 2y ago
        The entire issue I have is that there was no substantiated evidence from Elon either, the public is left to speculate as to why. But Elon made a great headline for himself without any nuanced or substantiated view.
- skissane 2y ago
  > What has followed is people coming out of the woodwork to explain how this may have been reflected in the system since the system was written in COBOL There’s zero evidence these “people coming out of the woodwork” have any idea what they are actually talking about. No evidence they have ever worked for SSA or have any insider info on how its systems work. It appears these “people coming out of the woodwork” are just random nobodies speculating in public (likely incorrectly), and people are repeating their speculation because they like how it sounds and they don’t know enough about the topic to realise that it probably isn’t true
  - computerthings 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - jklinger410 2y ago
      If you thought this was some kind of roast against one side, do me a favor and think about it for the opposite. That's what good posting vague quotes about totalitarianism does. You have to engage in specifics for your communication to be meaningful.
      - computerthings 2y ago
        [flagged]
        jklinger410 2y ago
        Well if I can't tell what side you are criticizing with your broad quotes then my point is they aren't really effective. Which is why I said posting vague quotes about totalitarianism doesn't really do much.
        computerthings 2y ago
        That something has to be applicable to only one "side" is a goal of your own making, not mine.

What are you talking about? This isn't about Elon Musk. This is a SE thread about whether or not COBOL backdates to 1875, consensus being that it does not do that.

dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago

Musk is making claims without substantive evidence. Why do you think we're talking about it?

fastball 2y ago
No, the claim without substantive evidence is that COBOL backdates to 1875. If the source-of-truth for SS payments is the database and associated COBOL system, and that system reports payments being made to 150 year olds, that is bad. We should not be doing that. It doesn't matter if the birth date was deliberately added as 1875 or if the COBOL system replaces null date values with 1875 (which does not seem to be the case if you read the linked thread).

NoPicklez 2y ago

It is, I assume this post has been made because Elon recently said when he addressed the media next to Trump that they supposedly found people who were 150 years old collecting social security payments. What has followed is people coming out of the woodwork to explain how this may have been reflected in the system since the system was written in COBOL and the reasons why those people were reflected that way the system, that they likely weren't actually having those payments made and it there wasn't the wastage of tax payers money as Elon claims. Whereby citizens that don't have a recorded age are represented with an age of 0 and COBOL backdates their age from 1875. It seems to be Elon's DOGE team having access to data that they have little experience in reviewing and understanding and are spreading claims that are false. Google it.

frugalmail 2y ago
They specifically said these people are getting payments. That means whether the cause is accurate representation in the database, or inaccurate representation in the database, this linchpin data should invalidate any payments.
- NoPicklez 2y ago
  Do they know that or do they think or assume that? There is supposedly an automated process to remove social security payments from people over the age of 115, unless there is an exception. https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202602578 https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202602578
  - fastball 2y ago
    Entirely possible that part of the system fails on whatever is causing there to be 150 year olds.
    - NoPicklez 2y ago
      There are a multitude of possibilities, of which none of them were addressed by Musk with no nuance at all.
      - fastball 2y ago
        I don't think it is useful to do that in a press conference.
        NoPicklez 2y ago
        Neither is it useful to make such claims as he did so blatantly
        fastball 2y ago
        Well, it is useful for him, as (if it turns out to be mostly true) then it highlights how poorly operations in our government are. The only reason you have to believe that Musk's statements are not correct is the aforementioned inaccurate assertion about COBOL.
fastball 2y ago
You literally have that backwards. The misinfo is that COBOL would be back-dating to 1875, as is made clear by the linked StackExchange thread and anyone else that has actually used COBOL. Regardless, people without an accurate age in the Social Security database should not be getting payments either, even if they are not actually 150.
- NoPicklez 2y ago
  Okay regardless of whether I had it backwards the intent of my post was still correct. That there may have been people in the system that were 150 years old, due to the COBOL language. And who says they actually were being paid, was that just assumed or did they find that people were inappropriately being paid? It is been circulated that there is an automated component that prevents that from happening if people are aged past 115 years old https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202602578 https://secure.ssa.gov/poms.nsf/lnx/0202602578 It is irresponsible to stand up in front of the Whitehouse and spew that there are people receiving social security payments that are 150 years old, without performing a formal inquiry into the matter or communicating the detail appropriately.
  - skissane 2y ago
    > That there may have been people in the system that were 150 years old, due to the COBOL language. Yes, but this is the whole aspect that is misinformation: there is no evidence that (alleged) “150 year old social security recipients” has anything to do with COBOL. That appears to be simply some speculative and likely incorrect theory that some random cooked up, and people that don’t know any better are repeating as fact It is entirely possible that Musk/DOGE’s claims about this topic will turn out to be incorrect - but if they do, then I very much doubt that the actual reason, whatever it may turn out to be, will be due to any feature of the COBOL language (or the implementation of it SSA is using)
    - NoPicklez 2y ago
      The entire issue I have is that there was no substantiated evidence from Elon either, the public is left to speculate as to why. But Elon made a great headline for himself without any nuanced or substantiated view.
skissane 2y ago
> What has followed is people coming out of the woodwork to explain how this may have been reflected in the system since the system was written in COBOL There’s zero evidence these “people coming out of the woodwork” have any idea what they are actually talking about. No evidence they have ever worked for SSA or have any insider info on how its systems work. It appears these “people coming out of the woodwork” are just random nobodies speculating in public (likely incorrectly), and people are repeating their speculation because they like how it sounds and they don’t know enough about the topic to realise that it probably isn’t true
- computerthings 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - jklinger410 2y ago
    If you thought this was some kind of roast against one side, do me a favor and think about it for the opposite. That's what good posting vague quotes about totalitarianism does. You have to engage in specifics for your communication to be meaningful.
    - computerthings 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - jklinger410 2y ago
        Well if I can't tell what side you are criticizing with your broad quotes then my point is they aren't really effective. Which is why I said posting vague quotes about totalitarianism doesn't really do much.
        computerthings 2y ago
        That something has to be applicable to only one "side" is a goal of your own making, not mine.