4 ms·

How does professional sports go through a DEI phase?? Professional sports are one of the few true meritocracies in the world, where the best players, no matter

How does professional sports go through a DEI phase?? Professional sports are one of the few true meritocracies in the world, where the best players, no matter their race, religion or gender, will play.

Iulioh 2y ago
Probably including women in the presentation of the sports, like in the media and reporting side
ceejayoz 2y ago
Unless they kneel for the anthem, of course.
- bluedevil2k 2y ago
  I’m guessing you’re referring to Colin Kaepernick? The dude went 2-14 his last year in the NFL! 2-14!!! That fact always seems to be left out by people claiming “racism”. The fact that he didn’t get another job is because sports is a meritocracy and he sucked, not because of his race or any DEI issue.
edmundsauto 2y ago
I have a more nuanced take on whether professional sports are actually a meritocracy. It depends on the level at which you look. Yes, in any given event it’s generally fair to say the rules are equitable. However, look at golf - we can either accept white people have some genetic advantage, or that access is not equal and the best talent never got a chance to develop. This could be extended to other leagues as well. Do you see it differently?
- onionisafruit 2y ago
  PGA players are about 75% white. That’s not far off from the US population.
- mitthrowaway2 2y ago
  > look at golf Tiger Woods is probably the only professional golfer that the average person knows by name.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    Fairness requires more than a single anecdote/aberration.
    - bluedevil2k 2y ago
      60% of the LPGA are Asian…is that more than a single anecdote??
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        That roughly matches the proportion of humans who are Asian.
  - Brian_K_White 2y ago
    hey everyone, Tiger Woods!
- CharlieDigital 2y ago
  Coaching is the most prominent aspect of professional sports in recent history (both gender and race). Minority coaches are a recent phenomenon.
- bluedevil2k 2y ago
  Access is not equal or interest is not equal? Minority participation in golf skyrocketed after Tiger Woods, but I’d argue the best athletes still far preferred basketball, football, etc over golf. Your argument also falls apart if you look at golf as a whole, where Asian women dominate the LPGA.
pfisherman 2y ago
See the “Rooney rule” in the NFL. Hiring female sports casters, referees, etc.
MisterKent 2y ago
What an ignorant take. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_color_line https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_color_line https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/players-legends/evolution-of-the-nfl-player/the-reintegration-of-the-nfl/ https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/players-legen...
- blastonico 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - CharlieDigital 2y ago
    2025 - 1940 = 85 (https://www.google.com/search?q=2025+-+1940 https://www.google.com/search?q=2025+-+1940) Are you saying there are no 85+ year old people in the US? That the OP's parents couldn't possibly be 85? Not a very sound argument to make. The history of the Civil Rights movement and the "end" of state sanctioned racism is a lot more recent than you think.
- bluedevil2k 2y ago
  Wow, your counterpoint is about discrimination in sports 80 YEARS ago. Barely anyone alive even remembers segregated baseball firsthand. You seem to be backing my point even more that sports have been a true meritocracy for many generations now.
CharlieDigital 2y ago
Coaching hires and selection process in more recent history. I'd also argue that Venus and Serena Williams were a prerequisite to Coco Gauff. That's the point of representation: to make it easier for the meritocracy to work by creating a path for talent that might otherwise not consider a field (or sport, in this case). In many cases with minorities, what we see are extraordinary individuals who are able to shatter these biases and be pathmakers for others to follow. Jeremy Lin has also talked a lot about his experiences with racism all along his journey to the NBA (racism and prejudice is just a form of exclusion). But it's ironic, right? Professional sports is a meritocracy that for decades excluded other non-white races from participating. The only reason we can call it a merit based system today is because there were strong efforts by individuals and organizations throughout the 20th century to make it inclusive, you know, the "I" in "DEI". You cannot have a functional meritocracy if individuals are being excluded from participating. There's this assumption that certain races or genders are just better at coding or engineering or finance or math and that these fields are already merit based. Isn't it more likely that these fields still suffer greatly from the same type of prejudiced exclusion that professional sports suffered from and that "non-conforming" talent is being excluded at the candidate prospecting phase?
- bluedevil2k 2y ago
  > Professional sports is a meritocracy that for decades excluded other non-white races from participating I’m sorry, you don’t get to argue that modern sports aren’t a true meritocracy because of policies that existed 80 years ago. You’re also putting too much into the selection process, implying that there’s active efforts to exclude, for example, blacks from hockey. I’d argue it’s more a result of cultural preferences - basketball and football see much higher participation and enthusiasm.
  - CharlieDigital 2y ago
    I didn't argue that modern sports aren't a meritocracy; the exact opposite. Modern sports are a meritocracy at the player level precisely because of the efforts to make it inclusive in the 20th century. Look at the sport of baseball, basketball, and football in the early 20th century. Look at the history of racism and exclusion in each of these sports and the efforts by extraordinary individuals to shift them towards merit and not race. The Negro Leagues were a thing not that long ago. It might behoove you to take a quick recap of the history of racism (exclusion) in sports: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Robinson#Negro_leagues_and_major_league_prospects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Robinson#Negro_leagues_... Modern sports at the coaching level is a more recent shift to meritocracy through a concerted effort to include minority candidates in the hiring process. It is only a meritocracy today because of extraordinary individuals like Jackie Robinson breaking the barriers and decades of integration. > ...there’s active efforts to exclude, for example, blacks from hockey. Exclusion works in many ways. Two of which are access and socioeconomic stratification. The reason why there aren't many minority hockey players can probably be easily traced to access and socioeconomic reasons. Go on Google Maps and search for ice rinks and then basketball courts. Find a "free" community ice rink. Now go find free community basketball courts, soccer fields, or any open space for football. There simply aren't as many ice rinks where there are minority populations are concentrated and the cost of access is high compared to alternatives like soccer, football, baseball, and basketball. The process is self-selecting and exclusionary through lack of access and cost. Tiger Woods would not be Tiger Woods had his father not had access to Navy golf courses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods#Early_life_and_amateur_golf_career https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods#Early_life_and_ama... Is there a specific reason why Carribean islands produce so many great baseball players and not so many hockey players? Think about that. Jeremy Lin's story is also an interesting one because he talks a lot about how many schools, coaches, and scouts were prejudiced against Asian basketball players. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Lin#College_career https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Lin#College_career

Iulioh 2y ago

Probably including women in the presentation of the sports, like in the media and reporting side

ceejayoz 2y ago

Unless they kneel for the anthem, of course.

bluedevil2k 2y ago
I’m guessing you’re referring to Colin Kaepernick? The dude went 2-14 his last year in the NFL! 2-14!!! That fact always seems to be left out by people claiming “racism”. The fact that he didn’t get another job is because sports is a meritocracy and he sucked, not because of his race or any DEI issue.

edmundsauto 2y ago

I have a more nuanced take on whether professional sports are actually a meritocracy. It depends on the level at which you look. Yes, in any given event it’s generally fair to say the rules are equitable. However, look at golf - we can either accept white people have some genetic advantage, or that access is not equal and the best talent never got a chance to develop. This could be extended to other leagues as well. Do you see it differently?

onionisafruit 2y ago
PGA players are about 75% white. That’s not far off from the US population.
mitthrowaway2 2y ago
> look at golf Tiger Woods is probably the only professional golfer that the average person knows by name.
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  Fairness requires more than a single anecdote/aberration.
  - bluedevil2k 2y ago
    60% of the LPGA are Asian…is that more than a single anecdote??
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      That roughly matches the proportion of humans who are Asian.
- Brian_K_White 2y ago
  hey everyone, Tiger Woods!
CharlieDigital 2y ago
Coaching is the most prominent aspect of professional sports in recent history (both gender and race). Minority coaches are a recent phenomenon.
bluedevil2k 2y ago
Access is not equal or interest is not equal? Minority participation in golf skyrocketed after Tiger Woods, but I’d argue the best athletes still far preferred basketball, football, etc over golf. Your argument also falls apart if you look at golf as a whole, where Asian women dominate the LPGA.

pfisherman 2y ago

See the “Rooney rule” in the NFL. Hiring female sports casters, referees, etc.

MisterKent 2y ago

What an ignorant take. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_color_line https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baseball_color_line https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/players-legends/evolution-of-the-nfl-player/the-reintegration-of-the-nfl/ https://operations.nfl.com/inside-football-ops/players-legen...

blastonico 2y ago
[flagged]
- CharlieDigital 2y ago
  2025 - 1940 = 85 (https://www.google.com/search?q=2025+-+1940 https://www.google.com/search?q=2025+-+1940) Are you saying there are no 85+ year old people in the US? That the OP's parents couldn't possibly be 85? Not a very sound argument to make. The history of the Civil Rights movement and the "end" of state sanctioned racism is a lot more recent than you think.
bluedevil2k 2y ago
Wow, your counterpoint is about discrimination in sports 80 YEARS ago. Barely anyone alive even remembers segregated baseball firsthand. You seem to be backing my point even more that sports have been a true meritocracy for many generations now.

CharlieDigital 2y ago

Coaching hires and selection process in more recent history. I'd also argue that Venus and Serena Williams were a prerequisite to Coco Gauff. That's the point of representation: to make it easier for the meritocracy to work by creating a path for talent that might otherwise not consider a field (or sport, in this case). In many cases with minorities, what we see are extraordinary individuals who are able to shatter these biases and be pathmakers for others to follow. Jeremy Lin has also talked a lot about his experiences with racism all along his journey to the NBA (racism and prejudice is just a form of exclusion). But it's ironic, right? Professional sports is a meritocracy that for decades excluded other non-white races from participating. The only reason we can call it a merit based system today is because there were strong efforts by individuals and organizations throughout the 20th century to make it inclusive, you know, the "I" in "DEI". You cannot have a functional meritocracy if individuals are being excluded from participating. There's this assumption that certain races or genders are just better at coding or engineering or finance or math and that these fields are already merit based. Isn't it more likely that these fields still suffer greatly from the same type of prejudiced exclusion that professional sports suffered from and that "non-conforming" talent is being excluded at the candidate prospecting phase?

bluedevil2k 2y ago
> Professional sports is a meritocracy that for decades excluded other non-white races from participating I’m sorry, you don’t get to argue that modern sports aren’t a true meritocracy because of policies that existed 80 years ago. You’re also putting too much into the selection process, implying that there’s active efforts to exclude, for example, blacks from hockey. I’d argue it’s more a result of cultural preferences - basketball and football see much higher participation and enthusiasm.
- CharlieDigital 2y ago
  I didn't argue that modern sports aren't a meritocracy; the exact opposite. Modern sports are a meritocracy at the player level precisely because of the efforts to make it inclusive in the 20th century. Look at the sport of baseball, basketball, and football in the early 20th century. Look at the history of racism and exclusion in each of these sports and the efforts by extraordinary individuals to shift them towards merit and not race. The Negro Leagues were a thing not that long ago. It might behoove you to take a quick recap of the history of racism (exclusion) in sports: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Robinson#Negro_leagues_and_major_league_prospects https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackie_Robinson#Negro_leagues_... Modern sports at the coaching level is a more recent shift to meritocracy through a concerted effort to include minority candidates in the hiring process. It is only a meritocracy today because of extraordinary individuals like Jackie Robinson breaking the barriers and decades of integration. > ...there’s active efforts to exclude, for example, blacks from hockey. Exclusion works in many ways. Two of which are access and socioeconomic stratification. The reason why there aren't many minority hockey players can probably be easily traced to access and socioeconomic reasons. Go on Google Maps and search for ice rinks and then basketball courts. Find a "free" community ice rink. Now go find free community basketball courts, soccer fields, or any open space for football. There simply aren't as many ice rinks where there are minority populations are concentrated and the cost of access is high compared to alternatives like soccer, football, baseball, and basketball. The process is self-selecting and exclusionary through lack of access and cost. Tiger Woods would not be Tiger Woods had his father not had access to Navy golf courses: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods#Early_life_and_amateur_golf_career https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiger_Woods#Early_life_and_ama... Is there a specific reason why Carribean islands produce so many great baseball players and not so many hockey players? Think about that. Jeremy Lin's story is also an interesting one because he talks a lot about how many schools, coaches, and scouts were prejudiced against Asian basketball players. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Lin#College_career https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeremy_Lin#College_career