5 ms·

Bring Google Fibre into Canada

83 points by calvintennant 14y ago

notatoad 14y ago
Google is sure to pay attention to this petition.
- calvintennant 14y ago
  It's not as important to get Google to pay attention as it is to get the CRTC to pay attention. There are laws in place preventing foreign competition in the Canadian marketplace, which in conjunction with other laws have essentially created a non-competition environment for Canadian ISPs. This petition is more about generating awareness for Canadians and and to trying and formulate a discussion around change.
  - fatbird 14y ago
    And yet I have cheaper, faster broadband in Vancouver than I did in Milwaukee, set up with far less hassle and without continual talk about capping usage or filtering torrent traffic. Having lived both countries, I feel far better served as a consumer of Internet services here than I did in the U.S.
    - deleted 14y ago
      [deleted]
    - rapind 14y ago
      And yet when I lived in Seattle around 2000 I had significantly cheaper and faster DSL than I got when I came back home to Toronto a couple years later. Having compared two specific locations in both countries I feel as though my experience is anecdotal at best.
    - stevewillows 14y ago
      I'm interested in who you get service from. I never get hassled or anything, but I pay through the teeth for my service!
      - fatbird 14y ago
        I started with Shaw and then switched to Novus in my building.
        stevewillows 14y ago
        Right on. Shame on me for living in a house. Shaw is painful in sone parts of N Burnaby.
- rapind 14y ago
  I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic, but in fact Google has already been shown to care about the internet in our little pond to the north. http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc.html http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc...
- MikeCapone 14y ago
  Well, it's certainly not hurting and gives visibility to the issue in general. The more people are aware that the ISP situation could be much better in Canada, the better. In the meantime, I'll keep recommending Teksavvy.
  - SquareWheel 14y ago
    I wish Teksavvy were available in my region, I would love to get off Shaw.
  - mladenkovacevic 14y ago
    Distributel too.. 28Mbit down for $50 a month.. no caps or contracts
    - MikeCapone 14y ago
      Weird. It's the first I hear of them, and I thought I knew all the ISP choices around here. I'll check them out, thanks.
      - mladenkovacevic 14y ago
        Have you heard of Acanac? Acanac basically slightly re-packages and re-sells Distributel's network.
zmanji 14y ago
This can't happen because it is illegal for telecommunications providers to be foreign owned. The correct first step would be to lobby our "free market" prime minister to let the free market operate.
- calvintennant 14y ago
  I hope that we can have this discussion; I've even created a repo for it: https://github.com/calvintennant/Open-Specification-for-Broadband-Internet-Access https://github.com/calvintennant/Open-Specification-for-Broa.... There are a lot of issues with how the CRTC is operating, I hope we can induce change.
- lucisferre 14y ago
  Yeah I'd sign this if it had even a snowballs chance in hell of making a difference. Telecom in Canada is such a racket right now I just see no real hope. My biggest hope for change right now is that Wind actually gets the government to agree to let them compete fairly.
- grecy 14y ago
  Are you 100% certain about that? I work for a telco in Canada and the CRTC has just passed a ruling to allow competition into the market for the first time ever in this operating area. I'm not 100% certain, but I think at least one of the new competitiors coming in is foreign owned. They'll be offering wireless, wireline and internet services.
  - adamzochowski 14y ago
    This is correct. Please read about Egyptian Wind Mobile having issues entering market because they didn't have enough Canadian ownership. http://www.techvibes.com/blog/wind-mobile-violates-laws-on-foreign-ownership-courts-2011-02-05 http://www.techvibes.com/blog/wind-mobile-violates-laws-on-f...
    - grecy 14y ago
      That article is from 2011. In July 2012, the Federal Government removed that restriction[1] [1]http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/186386/Telecommunications+Mobile+Cable+Communications/Its+Official+Foreign+Ownership+Requirements+Removed+For+Many+Carriers http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/186386/Telecommunications+Mob... (This applies as long as the total annual telecommunications revenues of the new telco represent less than 10% of total Canadian telecommunications revenues, so it basically applies to every newcomer, which is what we have in our operating area)
westbywest 14y ago
I would have to imagine there is still some challenge to 'bringing' Google Fiber to the remaining 48 US states. Sprint's presence in Kansas City was a large determining factor in its selection for the initial fiber deployment. Besides, there are still plenty of service providers (and attendant lobbyists) in this county who would prefer that fiber remain priced well above $70/month.
- calvintennant 14y ago
  For sure, I expect that Google Fiber will be available throughout most of the US before the service comes to Canada, but prepending their arrival here the CRTC will have to restructure some of the laws that are currently in place. I feel it is best for Google to know that there is demand here sooner so that they can start having these kinds of discussions with Canadian lawmakers.
iamgopal 14y ago
and India too.
BadassFractal 14y ago
On that note, bring Google Fibre to the rest of the US to force US ISPs to act more competitively.
- pokoleo 14y ago
  Canadian ISPs have effectively a monopoly. Competition is nearly nonexistant.[1] The CRTC, which fills the "job of regulating and supervising the broadcasting and telecommunications systems in Canada". The execs of ISPs retire and join the CRTC[2], which allows monopoly (and corruption) to grow. [3] As an example, the CRTC limits international competition (Wind Mobile [4]), under the guise of "promote Canadian ownership and control of the industry" [4] There's a reason that Orange mobile (and the other european brands) haven't come to Canada, and it's the CRTC. In reality, Canadian Telecom is a farce that would not hold up to competition against other international telecoms. [1] http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080325/155924648.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080325/155924648.shtml [2] http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/New-CRTC-Boss-is-Ex-Rogers-Bell-Exec-118086 http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/New-CRTC-Boss-is-Ex-Roger... [3] http://www.srtv.on.ca/mf.html http://www.srtv.on.ca/mf.html [4] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/cabinet-had-right-to-overrule-crtc-on-wind-mobile-court-told/article580354/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/cabinet-ha...
cdf 14y ago
So says the rest of the world. But ISP business is low margin, labour intensive, which is not quite congruent with Google's high margin media sales model. Like the 4 billion dollar bidding for wireless spectrum, I suspect Google's main motivation in launching Google Fibre is merely a warning shot to ISPs to shape up... and like Verizon did by outbidding Google in the wireless spectrum but still running the network according to Google requirements, the ISPs around the world will probably make sure Google has no need to enter their market, by ensuring seamless service to Google services. So... if things work out right, Google Fibre will never stretch beyond Kansas City.
- mda 14y ago
  AFAIK cable internet profit margins are more than 90%. http://insidedigitalmedia.com/cable-operators-will-abandon-tv/ http://insidedigitalmedia.com/cable-operators-will-abandon-t...
  - cdf 14y ago
    I'm not American, and US broadband rates are eye-popping, so I agree the business is high margin as it is. But once there is serious competition, by the implied entry of Google Fibre, then the margin will shrink quite a bit.
- dgudkov 14y ago
  With rate plans like 8MB for $50/mo ISP business is far not a low margin business.
  - cdf 14y ago
    I agree, but that's not Google Fibre's model. Their 5Mbps service, for example, is $0/mo...
Foy 14y ago
Really wish Google Fiber would come to Canada. /signed I'm so tired of Bell and Rogers... ;_;
jasonhanley 14y ago
They should totally spell it the Canadian way too :) A nice dream. I suspect their priority will be US cities, but someday... someday...
- calvintennant 14y ago
  Ahha, actually I did. A friend pointed it out minutes after I posted the petition and I corrected it.

83 points by calvintennant 14y ago

notatoad 14y ago

Google is sure to pay attention to this petition.

calvintennant 14y ago
It's not as important to get Google to pay attention as it is to get the CRTC to pay attention. There are laws in place preventing foreign competition in the Canadian marketplace, which in conjunction with other laws have essentially created a non-competition environment for Canadian ISPs. This petition is more about generating awareness for Canadians and and to trying and formulate a discussion around change.
- fatbird 14y ago
  And yet I have cheaper, faster broadband in Vancouver than I did in Milwaukee, set up with far less hassle and without continual talk about capping usage or filtering torrent traffic. Having lived both countries, I feel far better served as a consumer of Internet services here than I did in the U.S.
  - deleted 14y ago
    [deleted]
  - rapind 14y ago
    And yet when I lived in Seattle around 2000 I had significantly cheaper and faster DSL than I got when I came back home to Toronto a couple years later. Having compared two specific locations in both countries I feel as though my experience is anecdotal at best.
  - stevewillows 14y ago
    I'm interested in who you get service from. I never get hassled or anything, but I pay through the teeth for my service!
    - fatbird 14y ago
      I started with Shaw and then switched to Novus in my building.
      - stevewillows 14y ago
        Right on. Shame on me for living in a house. Shaw is painful in sone parts of N Burnaby.
rapind 14y ago
I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic, but in fact Google has already been shown to care about the internet in our little pond to the north. http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc.html http://www.cbc.ca/news/technology/story/2008/07/07/tech-crtc...
MikeCapone 14y ago
Well, it's certainly not hurting and gives visibility to the issue in general. The more people are aware that the ISP situation could be much better in Canada, the better. In the meantime, I'll keep recommending Teksavvy.
- SquareWheel 14y ago
  I wish Teksavvy were available in my region, I would love to get off Shaw.
- mladenkovacevic 14y ago
  Distributel too.. 28Mbit down for $50 a month.. no caps or contracts
  - MikeCapone 14y ago
    Weird. It's the first I hear of them, and I thought I knew all the ISP choices around here. I'll check them out, thanks.
    - mladenkovacevic 14y ago
      Have you heard of Acanac? Acanac basically slightly re-packages and re-sells Distributel's network.

zmanji 14y ago

This can't happen because it is illegal for telecommunications providers to be foreign owned. The correct first step would be to lobby our "free market" prime minister to let the free market operate.

calvintennant 14y ago
I hope that we can have this discussion; I've even created a repo for it: https://github.com/calvintennant/Open-Specification-for-Broadband-Internet-Access https://github.com/calvintennant/Open-Specification-for-Broa.... There are a lot of issues with how the CRTC is operating, I hope we can induce change.
lucisferre 14y ago
Yeah I'd sign this if it had even a snowballs chance in hell of making a difference. Telecom in Canada is such a racket right now I just see no real hope. My biggest hope for change right now is that Wind actually gets the government to agree to let them compete fairly.
grecy 14y ago
Are you 100% certain about that? I work for a telco in Canada and the CRTC has just passed a ruling to allow competition into the market for the first time ever in this operating area. I'm not 100% certain, but I think at least one of the new competitiors coming in is foreign owned. They'll be offering wireless, wireline and internet services.
- adamzochowski 14y ago
  This is correct. Please read about Egyptian Wind Mobile having issues entering market because they didn't have enough Canadian ownership. http://www.techvibes.com/blog/wind-mobile-violates-laws-on-foreign-ownership-courts-2011-02-05 http://www.techvibes.com/blog/wind-mobile-violates-laws-on-f...
  - grecy 14y ago
    That article is from 2011. In July 2012, the Federal Government removed that restriction[1] [1]http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/186386/Telecommunications+Mobile+Cable+Communications/Its+Official+Foreign+Ownership+Requirements+Removed+For+Many+Carriers http://www.mondaq.com/canada/x/186386/Telecommunications+Mob... (This applies as long as the total annual telecommunications revenues of the new telco represent less than 10% of total Canadian telecommunications revenues, so it basically applies to every newcomer, which is what we have in our operating area)

westbywest 14y ago

I would have to imagine there is still some challenge to 'bringing' Google Fiber to the remaining 48 US states. Sprint's presence in Kansas City was a large determining factor in its selection for the initial fiber deployment. Besides, there are still plenty of service providers (and attendant lobbyists) in this county who would prefer that fiber remain priced well above $70/month.

calvintennant 14y ago
For sure, I expect that Google Fiber will be available throughout most of the US before the service comes to Canada, but prepending their arrival here the CRTC will have to restructure some of the laws that are currently in place. I feel it is best for Google to know that there is demand here sooner so that they can start having these kinds of discussions with Canadian lawmakers.

iamgopal 14y ago

and India too.

BadassFractal 14y ago

On that note, bring Google Fibre to the rest of the US to force US ISPs to act more competitively.

pokoleo 14y ago
Canadian ISPs have effectively a monopoly. Competition is nearly nonexistant.[1] The CRTC, which fills the "job of regulating and supervising the broadcasting and telecommunications systems in Canada". The execs of ISPs retire and join the CRTC[2], which allows monopoly (and corruption) to grow. [3] As an example, the CRTC limits international competition (Wind Mobile [4]), under the guise of "promote Canadian ownership and control of the industry" [4] There's a reason that Orange mobile (and the other european brands) haven't come to Canada, and it's the CRTC. In reality, Canadian Telecom is a farce that would not hold up to competition against other international telecoms. [1] http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080325/155924648.shtml http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080325/155924648.shtml [2] http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/New-CRTC-Boss-is-Ex-Rogers-Bell-Exec-118086 http://www.dslreports.com/shownews/New-CRTC-Boss-is-Ex-Roger... [3] http://www.srtv.on.ca/mf.html http://www.srtv.on.ca/mf.html [4] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/cabinet-had-right-to-overrule-crtc-on-wind-mobile-court-told/article580354/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/cabinet-ha...

cdf 14y ago

So says the rest of the world. But ISP business is low margin, labour intensive, which is not quite congruent with Google's high margin media sales model. Like the 4 billion dollar bidding for wireless spectrum, I suspect Google's main motivation in launching Google Fibre is merely a warning shot to ISPs to shape up... and like Verizon did by outbidding Google in the wireless spectrum but still running the network according to Google requirements, the ISPs around the world will probably make sure Google has no need to enter their market, by ensuring seamless service to Google services. So... if things work out right, Google Fibre will never stretch beyond Kansas City.

mda 14y ago
AFAIK cable internet profit margins are more than 90%. http://insidedigitalmedia.com/cable-operators-will-abandon-tv/ http://insidedigitalmedia.com/cable-operators-will-abandon-t...
- cdf 14y ago
  I'm not American, and US broadband rates are eye-popping, so I agree the business is high margin as it is. But once there is serious competition, by the implied entry of Google Fibre, then the margin will shrink quite a bit.
dgudkov 14y ago
With rate plans like 8MB for $50/mo ISP business is far not a low margin business.
- cdf 14y ago
  I agree, but that's not Google Fibre's model. Their 5Mbps service, for example, is $0/mo...

Foy 14y ago

Really wish Google Fiber would come to Canada. /signed I'm so tired of Bell and Rogers... ;_;

jasonhanley 14y ago

They should totally spell it the Canadian way too :) A nice dream. I suspect their priority will be US cities, but someday... someday...

calvintennant 14y ago
Ahha, actually I did. A friend pointed it out minutes after I posted the petition and I corrected it.