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If there is one thing I’ve learned about philosophy, it is that it is a field full of arrogant know-it-alls who pretend to know what I am thinking better than I

If there is one thing I’ve learned about philosophy, it is that it is a field full of arrogant know-it-alls who pretend to know what I am thinking better than I do, and who will preen on about how unenlightened I am while treating me like a 3 year old who should be silent while the adults are talking, wielding “philosophy” like some joke I’m missing that gives them an excuse to be socially-inept at my expense. Obviously (to me, at least) this behavior is all centered around bullshit. I think it is somewhat common for those who experience anxiety over a lack of control to try and define or categorize what others are thinking, and to find a mild sense of closure or superiority after having done so. But life just isn’t that simple. So I (rightly or wrongly) think of philosophy as a dead field full of old lifeless straw-men.

kasey_junk 2y ago
How, where and when in life did you study philosophy? Because that seems like a horrid relationship to a whole field of study.
- __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
  Seconded, I've certainly met the sort of characters described in this post, but I don't think they're at all representative of the field. One of my favorite philosophy teachers described philosophical criticism as the process of being supremely gracious--of granting your opponent all manner of fanciful and absurd things, and then of peering through the cloud of absurdity and taking small issue with just one thing, preferably a small one, and politely, such that as much as possible of the absurdity collapses. And then you see how big of a thing can be built in such an environment. I can see how people trying to play this game and doing so poorly might end up being cruel, but the core of is making space for each other's thoughts and playing along for a while, which is anything but.
  - steve_adams_86 2y ago
    This reminds me of a guy I met many years ago who told me he was taking a class to learn how to debate people and break every argument by abusing logic. It turned out he was talking a philosophy class, haha. I can’t imagine how the teacher structured it, but somehow that was his takeaway. Maybe from the Socratic method, I guess.
    - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
      Sounds like my wife, who teaches rhetoric. She's a force to be reckoned with. One of the first things she said to me was: > Give me a problem that the world has an I'll tell you why nudism solves it. She didn't care a bit about nudism, she was just looking for a fight.
      - steve_adams_86 2y ago
        I didn’t know rhetoric is still taught! Where does she teach?
        __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
        At the local pubic high school. The word "rhetoric" isn't used very often anymore--so perhaps I misrepresented a little but it's what she was studying at the time and it's what she's teaching now even though they call it "11th grade IB Diploma Program" But the IB program requirements for English are all about identifying "author's purpose" and "author's craft" for authors all over the world and relating those things to global issues, which is pretty much rhetoric. I think they avoid the label because it has connotations of manipulation. But learning to not be duped by a propagandist is the same curriculum as learning to be a propagandist. Better to understand the fire than to be ignorant of it and then get burned by someone else's, I say.
      - MrMcCall 2y ago
        I think that she was, a) looking for something else, and b) got it. :-)
    - defrost 2y ago
      The subject of this post wrote: "men have done good enough philosophy in the past. What is wrong is a particular style of philosophising that results from encouraging a lot of clever young men to compete in winning arguments. These people then quickly build up a set of games out of simple oppositions and elaborate them until, in the end, nobody else can see what they are talking about." ~ Mary Midgley, https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/mar/23/mary-midgley-philosopher-soul-human-consciousness https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/mar/23/mary-midgley-p...
Mountain_Skies 2y ago
Next up is the parade of them telling you that the ones you encountered weren't real philosophers and your experiences are mistaken.
- soulofmischief 2y ago
  Philosophy was the first science. Aristotle himself developed and popularized the scientific method as we know it. Saying you hate philosophy is like saying you hate science. OP's post comes off as an angry man yelling at clouds, imagining himself being persecuted by a cabal of philosophers who are telling him what to think. In truth, there is a great deal of philosophy which has nothing to do with the philosophy of mind. There is enough in the fridge for anyone to find something useful and enlightening, but with an attitude like OP's, it will be rejected out of bias and spite before given a fair chance. Some philosophy is fundamental to developing a mature understanding the world that surpasses that of previous civilizations. Some philosophy deals with core issues like the very nature of existence, or the nature of ethics. Stuff that will completely change how you choose to interact with the world and live your life. This is why people feel compelled to educate others who adopt such an anti-science or anti-philosophy stance.
  - twodave 2y ago
    Note that I (OP here) did not say philosophy is useless. Just the people I typically encounter who want to have a philosophical discussion. I find the actual authors (the ones I agree with, anyway) to be much more refreshing. I think something similar was once said of Christianity. Paraphrasing: “I’d readily become a Christian if not for the followers!” As a Christian myself this strikes a definite chord.
steve_adams_86 2y ago
That’s unfortunate. Philosophy changed my life in an indescribably positive way. I don’t agree with or get value from all philosophy or philosophers, but it’s essentially a foundation of my life now. If I had a think of a familiar parallel, it’s not unlike religion to me. I study it, write about it, practice it, think about it often, and so on. Something I found helpful was finding schools of thought which emphasized putting the thinking to work as actions in the real world. Some philosophers argue that philosophy is useless or harmful if it isn’t manifested in action, and I agree with that. Reading a lot of philosophy without implementing change in your life isn’t a good use of time. It sounds like you might have encountered the kind of people who do that. Philosophy should enrich your life and even change you in ways you didn’t think were possible. It should open your mind and teach you about yourself, people, and society. The worst kind of philosophy and philosophers are those which bring ego and overconfidence to the practice. But there’s so much out there which isn’t like that, and so many people who aren’t as well.

kasey_junk 2y ago

How, where and when in life did you study philosophy? Because that seems like a horrid relationship to a whole field of study.

__MatrixMan__ 2y ago
Seconded, I've certainly met the sort of characters described in this post, but I don't think they're at all representative of the field. One of my favorite philosophy teachers described philosophical criticism as the process of being supremely gracious--of granting your opponent all manner of fanciful and absurd things, and then of peering through the cloud of absurdity and taking small issue with just one thing, preferably a small one, and politely, such that as much as possible of the absurdity collapses. And then you see how big of a thing can be built in such an environment. I can see how people trying to play this game and doing so poorly might end up being cruel, but the core of is making space for each other's thoughts and playing along for a while, which is anything but.
- steve_adams_86 2y ago
  This reminds me of a guy I met many years ago who told me he was taking a class to learn how to debate people and break every argument by abusing logic. It turned out he was talking a philosophy class, haha. I can’t imagine how the teacher structured it, but somehow that was his takeaway. Maybe from the Socratic method, I guess.
  - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
    Sounds like my wife, who teaches rhetoric. She's a force to be reckoned with. One of the first things she said to me was: > Give me a problem that the world has an I'll tell you why nudism solves it. She didn't care a bit about nudism, she was just looking for a fight.
    - steve_adams_86 2y ago
      I didn’t know rhetoric is still taught! Where does she teach?
      - __MatrixMan__ 2y ago
        At the local pubic high school. The word "rhetoric" isn't used very often anymore--so perhaps I misrepresented a little but it's what she was studying at the time and it's what she's teaching now even though they call it "11th grade IB Diploma Program" But the IB program requirements for English are all about identifying "author's purpose" and "author's craft" for authors all over the world and relating those things to global issues, which is pretty much rhetoric. I think they avoid the label because it has connotations of manipulation. But learning to not be duped by a propagandist is the same curriculum as learning to be a propagandist. Better to understand the fire than to be ignorant of it and then get burned by someone else's, I say.
    - MrMcCall 2y ago
      I think that she was, a) looking for something else, and b) got it. :-)
  - defrost 2y ago
    The subject of this post wrote: "men have done good enough philosophy in the past. What is wrong is a particular style of philosophising that results from encouraging a lot of clever young men to compete in winning arguments. These people then quickly build up a set of games out of simple oppositions and elaborate them until, in the end, nobody else can see what they are talking about." ~ Mary Midgley, https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/mar/23/mary-midgley-philosopher-soul-human-consciousness https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/mar/23/mary-midgley-p...

Mountain_Skies 2y ago

Next up is the parade of them telling you that the ones you encountered weren't real philosophers and your experiences are mistaken.

soulofmischief 2y ago
Philosophy was the first science. Aristotle himself developed and popularized the scientific method as we know it. Saying you hate philosophy is like saying you hate science. OP's post comes off as an angry man yelling at clouds, imagining himself being persecuted by a cabal of philosophers who are telling him what to think. In truth, there is a great deal of philosophy which has nothing to do with the philosophy of mind. There is enough in the fridge for anyone to find something useful and enlightening, but with an attitude like OP's, it will be rejected out of bias and spite before given a fair chance. Some philosophy is fundamental to developing a mature understanding the world that surpasses that of previous civilizations. Some philosophy deals with core issues like the very nature of existence, or the nature of ethics. Stuff that will completely change how you choose to interact with the world and live your life. This is why people feel compelled to educate others who adopt such an anti-science or anti-philosophy stance.
- twodave 2y ago
  Note that I (OP here) did not say philosophy is useless. Just the people I typically encounter who want to have a philosophical discussion. I find the actual authors (the ones I agree with, anyway) to be much more refreshing. I think something similar was once said of Christianity. Paraphrasing: “I’d readily become a Christian if not for the followers!” As a Christian myself this strikes a definite chord.

steve_adams_86 2y ago

That’s unfortunate. Philosophy changed my life in an indescribably positive way. I don’t agree with or get value from all philosophy or philosophers, but it’s essentially a foundation of my life now. If I had a think of a familiar parallel, it’s not unlike religion to me. I study it, write about it, practice it, think about it often, and so on. Something I found helpful was finding schools of thought which emphasized putting the thinking to work as actions in the real world. Some philosophers argue that philosophy is useless or harmful if it isn’t manifested in action, and I agree with that. Reading a lot of philosophy without implementing change in your life isn’t a good use of time. It sounds like you might have encountered the kind of people who do that. Philosophy should enrich your life and even change you in ways you didn’t think were possible. It should open your mind and teach you about yourself, people, and society. The worst kind of philosophy and philosophers are those which bring ego and overconfidence to the practice. But there’s so much out there which isn’t like that, and so many people who aren’t as well.