3 ms·

China has started adding battery electric container ships to it's local shipping fleets. They have also started using some battery electric cargo trains. Now if

China has started adding battery electric container ships to it's local shipping fleets. They have also started using some battery electric cargo trains. Now if they can just get off coal for their electricity consumption they are very close to the tipping point. So in my opinion we are getting there in terms of carbon output but I also think it is to late to stop global warming and we have crossed the point of no return already. https://electrek.co/2024/05/02/fully-electric-10000-ton-container-ship-begun-service50000-kwh-batteries/ https://electrek.co/2024/05/02/fully-electric-10000-ton-cont...

bruce511 2y ago
There's still a ways to go, but China are progressing faster at this than the US is. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-solar-wind-power-installed-capacity-soars-2024-2025-01-21 https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-solar-wind-po... While the US looks at China as the convenient villan here, the rest of the world sees the US as the villan and China at least aggressively attacking the problem. And that's before we consider the impact Chinese exports of solar panels and inverters have had on renewable energy production outside of China. One may not like the system of govt in China, or their human rights policies (personally, I don't, but each to his own), but as far as climate change goes they're getting stuff done while the US govt does nothing. Or actively fights against improvements.
- xbmcuser 2y ago
  China is demonized in the western countries for human rights abuses only because it is a communist country I am not saying that China is not doing bad shit but that western countries hypocrisy of only highlighting China. Where as they themselves have exploited and are still exploiting African countries resources by using corrupt African politicians that are doing many human rights on their people. At least Europeans have started to at least call-out Israel now but they should also call out US for enabling Israel but for those abuses it's okay not to say anything to the US.
  - nradov 2y ago
    China is also heavily exploiting African countries by using corrupt politicians.
- starspangled 2y ago
  I hear that a lot and maybe it is, but I can't see how it squares with numbers like these https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china Decades ago, coal was said to be in terminal decline. Years ago, coal was supposed to be economically dead due to being more expensive than renewables. Today we have yet to hit global peak-coal, China emits more CO2 than all western countries combined now, its emissions per-capita are higher than all but a handful of developed countries, and they are continuing to spike alarmingly. China is also home to some of the cheapest and most abundant renewable energy generation manufacturing in the world. Something isn't quite adding up.
  - spopejoy 2y ago
    > coal was said to be in terminal decline It was maybe "said" ... There seems to have been quite a bit of groupthink (or propaganda) over the decades that new energy sources would supplant old and it's never been really accurate. AIUI, wider use of oil created more demand for coal, wider use of renewables creates more demand for oil and so forth, because amongst other things new energy production puts greater demand on existing sources, plus the new-lanes-on-the-highway tendency of late capitalism to put all of it to work making the rich richer etc.
    - starspangled 2y ago
      Renewables aren't "new sources" by now though. They are existing sources. So if production demands more energy and renewables are the cheapest existing sources of energy, then you would build more renewable generation, not more coal generation. I think what actually happened is that people with agendas pushed this deception to fool people into acting and voting against their own best interests.
      - spopejoy 2y ago
        My comment was more based on recent reading about the relationship between oil and coal (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/apr/17/why-cant-we-give-up-fossil-fuels https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/apr/17/why-cant...): > But oil didn't displace coal, it helped us mine it more effectively and stimulated more technologies that raised energy demand overall. So coal use kept rising too – and oil use in turn kept increasing as cleaner gas, nuclear and hydro came on stream, helping power the digital age, which unlocked more advanced technologies capable of opening up harder-to-read fossil-fuel reserves. With renewables I agree it isn't the same. What is the same is we're only going to get out of this by turning away from growth-at-all-costs mentality. For instance, this article describes how the Gulf states are making huge investments in renewables _to sell more oil and gas_ (https://www.tni.org/en/article/a-transition-to-where-the-gulf-arab-states-and-the-new-east-east-axis-of-world-oil https://www.tni.org/en/article/a-transition-to-where-the-gul...): > The Gulf states see no contradiction between an embrace of ‘low-carbon solutions’ and pursuing the path of accelerating fossil fuel production ... With very high levels of energy consumption at home, the domestic substitution of oil and gas with alternative energy sources means that more fossil fuels can be made available for export. Indeed, such reasoning is explicitly behind Saudi Arabia’s plan to generate half of the country’s electricity from renewables by 2030 ...

bruce511 2y ago

There's still a ways to go, but China are progressing faster at this than the US is. https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-solar-wind-power-installed-capacity-soars-2024-2025-01-21 https://www.reuters.com/business/energy/chinas-solar-wind-po... While the US looks at China as the convenient villan here, the rest of the world sees the US as the villan and China at least aggressively attacking the problem. And that's before we consider the impact Chinese exports of solar panels and inverters have had on renewable energy production outside of China. One may not like the system of govt in China, or their human rights policies (personally, I don't, but each to his own), but as far as climate change goes they're getting stuff done while the US govt does nothing. Or actively fights against improvements.

xbmcuser 2y ago
China is demonized in the western countries for human rights abuses only because it is a communist country I am not saying that China is not doing bad shit but that western countries hypocrisy of only highlighting China. Where as they themselves have exploited and are still exploiting African countries resources by using corrupt African politicians that are doing many human rights on their people. At least Europeans have started to at least call-out Israel now but they should also call out US for enabling Israel but for those abuses it's okay not to say anything to the US.
- nradov 2y ago
  China is also heavily exploiting African countries by using corrupt politicians.
starspangled 2y ago
I hear that a lot and maybe it is, but I can't see how it squares with numbers like these https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china https://ourworldindata.org/co2/country/china Decades ago, coal was said to be in terminal decline. Years ago, coal was supposed to be economically dead due to being more expensive than renewables. Today we have yet to hit global peak-coal, China emits more CO2 than all western countries combined now, its emissions per-capita are higher than all but a handful of developed countries, and they are continuing to spike alarmingly. China is also home to some of the cheapest and most abundant renewable energy generation manufacturing in the world. Something isn't quite adding up.
- spopejoy 2y ago
  > coal was said to be in terminal decline It was maybe "said" ... There seems to have been quite a bit of groupthink (or propaganda) over the decades that new energy sources would supplant old and it's never been really accurate. AIUI, wider use of oil created more demand for coal, wider use of renewables creates more demand for oil and so forth, because amongst other things new energy production puts greater demand on existing sources, plus the new-lanes-on-the-highway tendency of late capitalism to put all of it to work making the rich richer etc.
  - starspangled 2y ago
    Renewables aren't "new sources" by now though. They are existing sources. So if production demands more energy and renewables are the cheapest existing sources of energy, then you would build more renewable generation, not more coal generation. I think what actually happened is that people with agendas pushed this deception to fool people into acting and voting against their own best interests.
    - spopejoy 2y ago
      My comment was more based on recent reading about the relationship between oil and coal (https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/apr/17/why-cant-we-give-up-fossil-fuels https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2013/apr/17/why-cant...): > But oil didn't displace coal, it helped us mine it more effectively and stimulated more technologies that raised energy demand overall. So coal use kept rising too – and oil use in turn kept increasing as cleaner gas, nuclear and hydro came on stream, helping power the digital age, which unlocked more advanced technologies capable of opening up harder-to-read fossil-fuel reserves. With renewables I agree it isn't the same. What is the same is we're only going to get out of this by turning away from growth-at-all-costs mentality. For instance, this article describes how the Gulf states are making huge investments in renewables _to sell more oil and gas_ (https://www.tni.org/en/article/a-transition-to-where-the-gulf-arab-states-and-the-new-east-east-axis-of-world-oil https://www.tni.org/en/article/a-transition-to-where-the-gul...): > The Gulf states see no contradiction between an embrace of ‘low-carbon solutions’ and pursuing the path of accelerating fossil fuel production ... With very high levels of energy consumption at home, the domestic substitution of oil and gas with alternative energy sources means that more fossil fuels can be made available for export. Indeed, such reasoning is explicitly behind Saudi Arabia’s plan to generate half of the country’s electricity from renewables by 2030 ...