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If you have an EV and you care about health and the environment, use regenerative braking as much as humanly possible. Hint: driving fast or tailgating both in

If you have an EV and you care about health and the environment, use regenerative braking as much as humanly possible. Hint: driving fast or tailgating both increase the odds you'll have to use the friction brakes.

michaelbuckbee 2y ago
I like how much the EV interfaces gamify using the regenerative braking to encourage its use: regen indicators, miles per kw per trip, etc.
dehrmann 2y ago
I always assumed EVs use regenerative braking as much as possible on their own.
- superjan 2y ago
  They do. But if you brake too agressively, they switch to friction brakes. It pays off to avoid this: more mileage, marginally lower charging expense, lower cost on brake maintenance and fewer complaints from passengers.
  - lightedman 2y ago
    "It pays off to avoid this: more mileage, marginally lower charging expense, lower cost on brake maintenance and fewer complaints from passengers." Regen braking wears the hell out of your battery. That few hundred you saved on brake changes just cost you a tens of thousands of dollars on a premature battery replacement.
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
      Source for your ridiculous claim?
      - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
        I'm not sure why they think regenerative breaking is worse than any other charging modality.
        lightedman 2y ago
        It's an added charge cycle on the battery. A guy in San Diego does full EIS and more for EV cells. His data shows multiple shorter recharge cycles wear the battery down faster, no matter what range you try restricting the recharging to. Same data shows that the batteries are better when conditioned harder on their first charge, gaining much better cycle performance and count, at a minimal sacrifice of capacity. And this exact same thing coincides DIRECTLY with my lithium-powered portable lighting, so I'm pretty up-to-date on very top-level research, because I hire this same person. His name is Luke. You'll see him all over the globe doing lithium EV research and testing.
    - tbossanova 2y ago
      Most EVs will not use regenerative braking when the battery is over 80% which is where the damage mostly happens
    - theoreticalmal 2y ago
      Really curious about this, since regen braking is Standard on all EVs
      - lightedman 2y ago
        A charge cycle is a charge cycle, regardless. The wear and tear that occurs during is cumulative and doesn't just magically disappear when restricted to a certain level of battery depletion.
  - tbossanova 2y ago
    Apparently you need to use the friction brakes now and then so they don’t degrade early, which could be a safety issue. I think as long as you’re using the car frequently it’s incredibly unlikely to be a problem though.
    - guenthert 2y ago
      Not sure about all EVs and hybrids, but for Prius the friction brakes were used below a given speed as then regeneration becomes inefficient (as does stopping power). If you pay close attention, you might notice the transition.
    - fennecfoxy 2y ago
      Yup. I only use my car infrequently and it sits there with the handbrake on, when I do take it out often the rotors have rusted just slightly, meaning I get a "thunk thunk thunk" until I brake hard a couple times. I think it's fine, in an EV just give your physical brakes a good test/try out when starting a journey in the car, especially if it has been sat for a while.
  - 6510 2y ago
    I imagine there to be a sweet spot with friction breaks where it grinds the hardest, I imagine it to be when one breaks gently.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  Most don’t. Not all have heatpumps either. In fact anything outside Tesla is still garbage.
- mcv 2y ago
  No experience with EVs, but Toyota hybrids use regenerative braking a lot. They also teach me to accelerate gently. Quite the opposite of Tesla with their "ludicrous mode" encouraging extreme acceleration. But I have no idea how well those brake.
boznz 2y ago
This. I treat it as a failure if I have to brake. My original tires are still good after 3 years as well
jgalt212 2y ago
The problem is that not all cars correctly illuminate the brake lights when regenerative braking is in effect.
- dzhiurgis 2y ago
  This is why Tesla’s are best selling EVs. Only cynics and idiots buy anything else. Either way I am deeply sorry for them.
  - tbossanova 2y ago
    Thanks for your deep sorrow for this idiotic cynical nissan leaf owner. Love you too
    - pragma_x 2y ago
      Same here. To be fair, we do have to put up with charging compatibility shenanigans. But that aside, I love this thing.
    - dzhiurgis 2y ago
      Leaf would've been decent if not battery health issue and crazy charging port. Cleary Nissan doesn't want it so succeed. I nearly bought one as my spare EV for short trips nearby (they can be had for 1.5k NZD here). But minivan is just more useful for short trips, and doesn't break a bank either.
- Scoundreller 2y ago
  same problem on my manual transmission (and there aren't many of those left in north america)
- guenthert 2y ago
  I doubt that this is really the case (brake lights will be connected to brake pedal, regardless of mode). For motorcycles (not using regenerative braking, but engine braking which is quite effective there) this however is a problem. Every once in a while I woke a sleepy tailgater with that. Fortunately all sleepy tailgaters did wake up in time.
WillPostForFood 2y ago
The comment you replied to mentioned EV tire wear, not brake dust. The heavy weight of EVs due to the batteries is always going to cause more tire pollution. E.g., Ford F-150 Ford Lightning has a curb weight of up to 6,500 lbs, which compares to the regular F-150's curb weight that ranges from anywhere between 4,021 lbs and 5,014 lbs. The Rivian R1T is 7,148 lbs.
- mcv 2y ago
  That's more an argument against SUVs and heavy pickup trucks than against EVs, though.
  - guenthert 2y ago
    Well yes, but even the Renault Zoe at 3,236lbs is much heavier than the Renault Clio (2,161–2,361lbs) it is based on. Heavier weight alone however doesn't necessarily cause more tire wear though. The Toyota Prius came with hard-compound tires (good for low fuel consumption and high mileage, not for racing).
- theoreticalmal 2y ago
  Interesting, my 2011 F150 is about 6200 pounds. Didn’t they switch to aluminum bodies in 2015 or so?
pragma_x 2y ago
FWIW, I took my EV in for a maintenance interval (waste of money BTW - this thing is indestructable), and the mechanic remarked that the brakes looked new. It's 1.5 years old, with factory brakes. Single-pedal mode does the rest. Not only does this make the car easier to drive, but you can hit a sweet spot where you never really use the brakes.
legulere 2y ago
Also regenerative breaking exerts force which leads to particle emissions from the tires. Breaking earlier and slower also helps when you otherwise would have stayed in the range where you can break regeneratively.

michaelbuckbee 2y ago

I like how much the EV interfaces gamify using the regenerative braking to encourage its use: regen indicators, miles per kw per trip, etc.

dehrmann 2y ago

I always assumed EVs use regenerative braking as much as possible on their own.

superjan 2y ago
They do. But if you brake too agressively, they switch to friction brakes. It pays off to avoid this: more mileage, marginally lower charging expense, lower cost on brake maintenance and fewer complaints from passengers.
- lightedman 2y ago
  "It pays off to avoid this: more mileage, marginally lower charging expense, lower cost on brake maintenance and fewer complaints from passengers." Regen braking wears the hell out of your battery. That few hundred you saved on brake changes just cost you a tens of thousands of dollars on a premature battery replacement.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    Source for your ridiculous claim?
    - amanaplanacanal 2y ago
      I'm not sure why they think regenerative breaking is worse than any other charging modality.
      - lightedman 2y ago
        It's an added charge cycle on the battery. A guy in San Diego does full EIS and more for EV cells. His data shows multiple shorter recharge cycles wear the battery down faster, no matter what range you try restricting the recharging to. Same data shows that the batteries are better when conditioned harder on their first charge, gaining much better cycle performance and count, at a minimal sacrifice of capacity. And this exact same thing coincides DIRECTLY with my lithium-powered portable lighting, so I'm pretty up-to-date on very top-level research, because I hire this same person. His name is Luke. You'll see him all over the globe doing lithium EV research and testing.
  - tbossanova 2y ago
    Most EVs will not use regenerative braking when the battery is over 80% which is where the damage mostly happens
  - theoreticalmal 2y ago
    Really curious about this, since regen braking is Standard on all EVs
    - lightedman 2y ago
      A charge cycle is a charge cycle, regardless. The wear and tear that occurs during is cumulative and doesn't just magically disappear when restricted to a certain level of battery depletion.
- tbossanova 2y ago
  Apparently you need to use the friction brakes now and then so they don’t degrade early, which could be a safety issue. I think as long as you’re using the car frequently it’s incredibly unlikely to be a problem though.
  - guenthert 2y ago
    Not sure about all EVs and hybrids, but for Prius the friction brakes were used below a given speed as then regeneration becomes inefficient (as does stopping power). If you pay close attention, you might notice the transition.
  - fennecfoxy 2y ago
    Yup. I only use my car infrequently and it sits there with the handbrake on, when I do take it out often the rotors have rusted just slightly, meaning I get a "thunk thunk thunk" until I brake hard a couple times. I think it's fine, in an EV just give your physical brakes a good test/try out when starting a journey in the car, especially if it has been sat for a while.
- 6510 2y ago
  I imagine there to be a sweet spot with friction breaks where it grinds the hardest, I imagine it to be when one breaks gently.
dzhiurgis 2y ago
Most don’t. Not all have heatpumps either. In fact anything outside Tesla is still garbage.
mcv 2y ago
No experience with EVs, but Toyota hybrids use regenerative braking a lot. They also teach me to accelerate gently. Quite the opposite of Tesla with their "ludicrous mode" encouraging extreme acceleration. But I have no idea how well those brake.

boznz 2y ago

This. I treat it as a failure if I have to brake. My original tires are still good after 3 years as well

jgalt212 2y ago

The problem is that not all cars correctly illuminate the brake lights when regenerative braking is in effect.

dzhiurgis 2y ago
This is why Tesla’s are best selling EVs. Only cynics and idiots buy anything else. Either way I am deeply sorry for them.
- tbossanova 2y ago
  Thanks for your deep sorrow for this idiotic cynical nissan leaf owner. Love you too
  - pragma_x 2y ago
    Same here. To be fair, we do have to put up with charging compatibility shenanigans. But that aside, I love this thing.
  - dzhiurgis 2y ago
    Leaf would've been decent if not battery health issue and crazy charging port. Cleary Nissan doesn't want it so succeed. I nearly bought one as my spare EV for short trips nearby (they can be had for 1.5k NZD here). But minivan is just more useful for short trips, and doesn't break a bank either.
Scoundreller 2y ago
same problem on my manual transmission (and there aren't many of those left in north america)
guenthert 2y ago
I doubt that this is really the case (brake lights will be connected to brake pedal, regardless of mode). For motorcycles (not using regenerative braking, but engine braking which is quite effective there) this however is a problem. Every once in a while I woke a sleepy tailgater with that. Fortunately all sleepy tailgaters did wake up in time.

WillPostForFood 2y ago

The comment you replied to mentioned EV tire wear, not brake dust. The heavy weight of EVs due to the batteries is always going to cause more tire pollution. E.g., Ford F-150 Ford Lightning has a curb weight of up to 6,500 lbs, which compares to the regular F-150's curb weight that ranges from anywhere between 4,021 lbs and 5,014 lbs. The Rivian R1T is 7,148 lbs.

mcv 2y ago
That's more an argument against SUVs and heavy pickup trucks than against EVs, though.
- guenthert 2y ago
  Well yes, but even the Renault Zoe at 3,236lbs is much heavier than the Renault Clio (2,161–2,361lbs) it is based on. Heavier weight alone however doesn't necessarily cause more tire wear though. The Toyota Prius came with hard-compound tires (good for low fuel consumption and high mileage, not for racing).
theoreticalmal 2y ago
Interesting, my 2011 F150 is about 6200 pounds. Didn’t they switch to aluminum bodies in 2015 or so?

pragma_x 2y ago

FWIW, I took my EV in for a maintenance interval (waste of money BTW - this thing is indestructable), and the mechanic remarked that the brakes looked new. It's 1.5 years old, with factory brakes. Single-pedal mode does the rest. Not only does this make the car easier to drive, but you can hit a sweet spot where you never really use the brakes.

legulere 2y ago

Also regenerative breaking exerts force which leads to particle emissions from the tires. Breaking earlier and slower also helps when you otherwise would have stayed in the range where you can break regeneratively.