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It's unfortunate that Texas gets a bad rap. The actual thing they did is deregulate their (residential) electricity market, which only Massachusetts followed su

It's unfortunate that Texas gets a bad rap. The actual thing they did is deregulate their (residential) electricity market, which only Massachusetts followed suit with. By separating what you pay for transmission (monopoly) from generation (free market), it created a persistent demand for more/better/cheaper supply. It is a much more flexible structure that allows municipalities to do cool stuff like this: https://www.cambridgema.gov/CDD/News/detail.aspx?path=/sitecore/content/home/cdd/news/2022/10/energymixlabel https://www.cambridgema.gov/CDD/News/detail.aspx?path=/sitec... Texas will have great energy infrastructure because they let developers build it.

johnea 2y ago
Well of course, why would anyone even use electricity unless an absentee investor was reaping ROI from it? Duh...
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  I know your comment is sarcastic, but yes, of course. I consider myself someone with "liberal values", but I don't understand why so many liberals like to pretend that the reality of economic incentives don't exist. Sure, it would be nice if we could all sing kumbaya together and build things, but the real world largely doesn't work that way. And it's not just "big developers" - most people would choose the more polluting energy source if it saved them 5 cents. Other similar situation: so many people in "liberal cities" like to rail against "big evil developers" when it comes to housing, and as a result they have a giant housing shortage that is responsible for tons of social ills. In Austin we've built a shit ton of housing, especially rental, by letting developers build, and surprise surprise housing and rental costs in Austin have fallen a ton since their (admittedly ridiculous) peak.
  - hobs 2y ago
    We're not pretending it doesn't exist, but the failures of Texas power grid have been pretty obvious the last few years with major power failures, rampant price gouging, and deaths attributable to these failures - so the "oh the incentives are fixing it!" when no states needs to have those problems is looking with rose tinted glasses.
    - conradev 2y ago
      Interconnection is a separate issue from deregulation and they're considering it: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/projects/2025/southern-spirit-transmission-line-texas/ https://www.houstonchronicle.com/projects/2025/southern-spir... The Griddy incident wasn't quite "price gouging" if you want to read about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griddy_(company)#2021_Texas_power_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griddy_(company)#2021_Texas_po... > Griddy advised customers to remove themselves from their system during the storm, and says that over 9,700 accounts did by February 15. On February 17, they asked for PUC approval to switch the remaining customers to a traditional energy provider, but the PUC, which was overwhelmed by the situation, was unable to discuss the matter. Outages do cause deaths, that is for sure. PG&E has killed a lot of people by that metric and unfortunately PG&E's problems are a little harder to fix.
    - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
      These are still problems that can largely be solved by applying the right economic incentives. For example, during the 2021 winter storm and outage, a huge problem was that no power producers had any incentive to weatherize their systems, resulting in a huge chunk of them all going offline at the same time. It seems more than reasonable to require producers to have some minimal level of weatherization, and to provide incentives to producers that have better weatherization. This is kinda my point - I'm not arguing for a totally deregulated free-for-all, as the unregulated free market is notoriously bad at dealing with "black swan" events. But that doesn't mean that sensible regulations can't be put in place that still use economic incentives to achieve their goals.
      - warkdarrior 2y ago
        > These are still problems that can largely be solved by applying the right economic incentives. > > It seems more than reasonable to require producers to have some minimal level of weatherization Regulation on a minimal level of weatherization is not an economic incentive.
        hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
epistasis 2y ago
Great link. As a liberal California resident, there's a lot about the governance of Texas that I like a lot. From their permitting regime for renewables, to their high property taxes, there's a lot that California should adopt that would make our state function better.
- hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
  This why I find our political tribalism so frustrating, even moreso now that I see (primarily young) people trying to use "centrist" as a dirty word. Texas has actually done a lot better at producing supposedly "liberal outcomes" by acknowledging the reality of economic incentives. We've built a ton of renewables. We've also built a ton of housing that have shown the stark contrast to the idiotic housing policies of California. I'll also give a shout-out to the "Sunset Commission" of the TX legislature, which reviews government/regulatory bodies every 12 years to ensure they're still fulfilling their original mission. At the same time, we have idiotic laws that force women to leave the state to get healthcare that will save their lives. Our educational financing system is a disaster. Point being I don't consider myself a "centrist", I just want to choose policies that actually work, regardless of tribalism.
  - jimt1234 2y ago
    I have to admire Texas politicians for opposing "green energy", going so far as to blame their 2021 power crisis on The Green New Deal, while also simultaneously investing heavily in and reaping the benefits from "green energy". The unapologetic hypocrisy has to be respected.
    - Panzer04 2y ago
      The difference is that private industry is buying what's effective while politicians mouth off. This is one of the reasons we should let the "free market" control things where we can, since they are compelled to make sensible decisions for efficiency reasons, unlike the government.
      - 2y ago
Animats 2y ago
> The actual thing they did is deregulate their (residential) electricity market, which only Massachusetts followed suit with. California did that for a few years. Auctions every half hour, everyone pays the spot price. It was too exploitable by energy traders and resulted in blackouts. Also, PG&E went bankrupt, after a century as a regulated utility. The current system trades energy mostly on a day-ahead basis, which is more stable.
- stogot 2y ago
  IIRC that was Enron’s doing. California suffered but Texas thrived despite some hiccups.
  - jeffbee 2y ago
    Hiccups including scores of dead people.
    - stogot 2y ago
      In the 90s/00s? Which event was that?
dylan604 2y ago
> Texas will have great energy infrastructure because they let developers build it. Ask Houston about letting developers build with little oversight. Or, ask the home owners that bought some of that property. Ask homeowners that live on wells that have become polluted because of Texas being in bed with oil and the little oversight applied. The rap is well deserved not unfortunate.
- chao- 2y ago
  Writing from Houston, what do you want to ask? Land use isn't nearly as free-wheeling as people both here and elsewhere like to pretend. There's loads of restrictions, both good and bad, and permitting is not quite the nightmare as it is in (from what I hear) New York City, but it's still no walk in the park if you are trying to do anything unusual.
  - dylan604 2y ago
    You must be one that didn’t buy in the floodplains.
    - stogot 2y ago
      Developers build in floodplains in every state. What’s your point? If you live in a floodplain your insurance makes you buy flood insurance. There’s entire cities in Florida built on former swamps
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > There’s entire cities in Florida built on former swamps Entire countries [1]. (Hell, our nation's capital.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands
    - chao- 2y ago
      I thought you might have a genuine question. I see now that you just wanted to kvetch. If your house flooded in Allison, Harvey, or the Tax Day floods, I am sorry that you went through that, but I am curious: when was it built?

johnea 2y ago

Well of course, why would anyone even use electricity unless an absentee investor was reaping ROI from it? Duh...

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
I know your comment is sarcastic, but yes, of course. I consider myself someone with "liberal values", but I don't understand why so many liberals like to pretend that the reality of economic incentives don't exist. Sure, it would be nice if we could all sing kumbaya together and build things, but the real world largely doesn't work that way. And it's not just "big developers" - most people would choose the more polluting energy source if it saved them 5 cents. Other similar situation: so many people in "liberal cities" like to rail against "big evil developers" when it comes to housing, and as a result they have a giant housing shortage that is responsible for tons of social ills. In Austin we've built a shit ton of housing, especially rental, by letting developers build, and surprise surprise housing and rental costs in Austin have fallen a ton since their (admittedly ridiculous) peak.
- hobs 2y ago
  We're not pretending it doesn't exist, but the failures of Texas power grid have been pretty obvious the last few years with major power failures, rampant price gouging, and deaths attributable to these failures - so the "oh the incentives are fixing it!" when no states needs to have those problems is looking with rose tinted glasses.
  - conradev 2y ago
    Interconnection is a separate issue from deregulation and they're considering it: https://www.houstonchronicle.com/projects/2025/southern-spirit-transmission-line-texas/ https://www.houstonchronicle.com/projects/2025/southern-spir... The Griddy incident wasn't quite "price gouging" if you want to read about it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griddy_(company)#2021_Texas_power_crisis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griddy_(company)#2021_Texas_po... > Griddy advised customers to remove themselves from their system during the storm, and says that over 9,700 accounts did by February 15. On February 17, they asked for PUC approval to switch the remaining customers to a traditional energy provider, but the PUC, which was overwhelmed by the situation, was unable to discuss the matter. Outages do cause deaths, that is for sure. PG&E has killed a lot of people by that metric and unfortunately PG&E's problems are a little harder to fix.
  - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
    These are still problems that can largely be solved by applying the right economic incentives. For example, during the 2021 winter storm and outage, a huge problem was that no power producers had any incentive to weatherize their systems, resulting in a huge chunk of them all going offline at the same time. It seems more than reasonable to require producers to have some minimal level of weatherization, and to provide incentives to producers that have better weatherization. This is kinda my point - I'm not arguing for a totally deregulated free-for-all, as the unregulated free market is notoriously bad at dealing with "black swan" events. But that doesn't mean that sensible regulations can't be put in place that still use economic incentives to achieve their goals.
    - warkdarrior 2y ago
      > These are still problems that can largely be solved by applying the right economic incentives. > > It seems more than reasonable to require producers to have some minimal level of weatherization Regulation on a minimal level of weatherization is not an economic incentive.
      - hn_throwaway_99 2y ago

epistasis 2y ago

Great link. As a liberal California resident, there's a lot about the governance of Texas that I like a lot. From their permitting regime for renewables, to their high property taxes, there's a lot that California should adopt that would make our state function better.

hn_throwaway_99 2y ago
This why I find our political tribalism so frustrating, even moreso now that I see (primarily young) people trying to use "centrist" as a dirty word. Texas has actually done a lot better at producing supposedly "liberal outcomes" by acknowledging the reality of economic incentives. We've built a ton of renewables. We've also built a ton of housing that have shown the stark contrast to the idiotic housing policies of California. I'll also give a shout-out to the "Sunset Commission" of the TX legislature, which reviews government/regulatory bodies every 12 years to ensure they're still fulfilling their original mission. At the same time, we have idiotic laws that force women to leave the state to get healthcare that will save their lives. Our educational financing system is a disaster. Point being I don't consider myself a "centrist", I just want to choose policies that actually work, regardless of tribalism.
- jimt1234 2y ago
  I have to admire Texas politicians for opposing "green energy", going so far as to blame their 2021 power crisis on The Green New Deal, while also simultaneously investing heavily in and reaping the benefits from "green energy". The unapologetic hypocrisy has to be respected.
  - Panzer04 2y ago
    The difference is that private industry is buying what's effective while politicians mouth off. This is one of the reasons we should let the "free market" control things where we can, since they are compelled to make sensible decisions for efficiency reasons, unlike the government.
    - 2y ago

Animats 2y ago

> The actual thing they did is deregulate their (residential) electricity market, which only Massachusetts followed suit with. California did that for a few years. Auctions every half hour, everyone pays the spot price. It was too exploitable by energy traders and resulted in blackouts. Also, PG&E went bankrupt, after a century as a regulated utility. The current system trades energy mostly on a day-ahead basis, which is more stable.

stogot 2y ago
IIRC that was Enron’s doing. California suffered but Texas thrived despite some hiccups.
- jeffbee 2y ago
  Hiccups including scores of dead people.
  - stogot 2y ago
    In the 90s/00s? Which event was that?

dylan604 2y ago

> Texas will have great energy infrastructure because they let developers build it. Ask Houston about letting developers build with little oversight. Or, ask the home owners that bought some of that property. Ask homeowners that live on wells that have become polluted because of Texas being in bed with oil and the little oversight applied. The rap is well deserved not unfortunate.

chao- 2y ago
Writing from Houston, what do you want to ask? Land use isn't nearly as free-wheeling as people both here and elsewhere like to pretend. There's loads of restrictions, both good and bad, and permitting is not quite the nightmare as it is in (from what I hear) New York City, but it's still no walk in the park if you are trying to do anything unusual.
- dylan604 2y ago
  You must be one that didn’t buy in the floodplains.
  - stogot 2y ago
    Developers build in floodplains in every state. What’s your point? If you live in a floodplain your insurance makes you buy flood insurance. There’s entire cities in Florida built on former swamps
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > There’s entire cities in Florida built on former swamps Entire countries [1]. (Hell, our nation's capital.) [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netherlands
  - chao- 2y ago
    I thought you might have a genuine question. I see now that you just wanted to kvetch. If your house flooded in Allison, Harvey, or the Tax Day floods, I am sorry that you went through that, but I am curious: when was it built?