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surely regenerative braking has its own shedding of particles from all the moving parts. It adds tire wear, but no more than traditional friction braking. I c

surely regenerative braking has its own shedding of particles from all the moving parts. It adds tire wear, but no more than traditional friction braking. I can't see how there would be any measurable wear from any other moving parts, since it's just using a magnetic field for resistance. There are moving parts that touch, but modern, sealed bearings last a ridiculously long time.

Schiendelman 2y ago
Regenerative braking has much less tire wear than traditional braking because it's done much more slowly and smoothly. Also, none of these discussions use up-to-date information on EV tires. Consumers aren't willing to replace their tires much more often for an EV except at the high end of the market, tire manufacturers are already making tires last much longer for EV purposes. New designs are already shedding less dust per unit mass of the vehicle than they were a few years ago. Plus, some manufacturers are now working to reduce the toxicity of their formulas. This will eliminate the issues a lot more.
- snozolli 2y ago
  Regenerative braking has much less tire wear than traditional braking because it's done much more slowly and smoothly. Absent any evidence, I don't believe that claim. Unless you're skidding, I don't see how braking slowly and smoothly over a longer period causes any less tire wear than braking more rapidly for a shorter time. Additionally, since this is intrinsically tied to EVs, they weigh more and thus increase tire wear in all conditions.
  - kstrauser 2y ago
    That seems plausible to me. Tires are made from rubber. If friction forces exceed how strong the rubber particles stick to each other, they get pulled loose. And road surfaces aren’t perfectly smooth, so when you’re accelerating, some rubber particles will experience more force than others. It seems believable that hard braking, even without leaving skid marks, could pull more rubber off a tire than gradual braking.
  - NewJazz 2y ago
    Slower braking is generally accepted to cause less brake pad wear. I was only able to find this article, but I'm sure more convincing evidence can be found if you do more research than the quick ddg and clicking on the first result I did. Hard Braking: Less experienced drivers often react late to situations, slamming on the brakes instead of slowing down gradually. This creates more friction and heat, reducing pad lifespan. https://www.bimmer-mag.com/car-disc-brakes-wearing-out/ https://www.bimmer-mag.com/car-disc-brakes-wearing-out/
    - Dylan16807 2y ago
      The claim was tire wear, not brake wear.
  - smileysteve 2y ago
    Weight shift is a good reason, rear and all wheel drive Regen should result in 2+x as much contact patch, versus friction brakes typically favor the front 70/30, applying 70% of braking to only 2 tires.
  - Kirby64 2y ago
    The same exact reason that accelerating quickly causes far more tire wear than accelerating slowly, only in reverse. By applying more torque to brake/accelerate, you cause more lateral force on the tires (think, smearing the rubber itself) which is what causes tire wear. With more force the rubber is stretched further, which fatigues it and breaks off pieces of it over time.
  - maigret 2y ago
    > Absent any evidence, I don't believe that claim Acceleration and deceleration is calculated the same way: m/s^2. If you decelerate faster you put more stress on the system in a non-linear way - the square of it actually. This is why sport and race cars have huge brakes. The tire friction will also augment non-linearly - it will hold a certain acceleration and then quickly give up (slipping point), but the energy has to be transferred and partly absorbed all the time. > they weigh more and thus increase tire wear in all conditions Then get a lighter one if that is your concern. Defaulting to ICE is the wrong idea because they have much more externalities (like one ton of fuel per year that needs actually around 1.5 if you include the extraction and transport).
- rafaelmn 2y ago
  Teslas eat tires for breakfast. Instant torque and high weight - any benefit you get from regen breaking is not scratching that.
  - Schiendelman 2y ago
    As a Tesla owner, I'm 33k in on a set of all seasons and still in the green on two. You can't move the goalposts like that - the same is true on an ICE sports car.
  - hedora 2y ago
    That’s nothing compared to an i3: I don’t even get 10K miles per set. Some people report getting as many as 12K with conservative driving. Part of the problem is the instant torque, but the narrow geometry is a bigger issue. Also, they did something to the formulation that achieves less rolling resistance for increased wear. I also don’t think the weight is the main issue. The i3 is a bit under 3000 lbs. That’s the same as a Volvo station wagon, and they didn’t have this problem. (If I remember right, you could get 50K mile Michelins for them.)
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    This probably depends quite a bit on your acceleration/braking settings.
  - YZF 2y ago
    My model 3 is 5 years old and I'm still on my original set of tires (though in recent years I do put on winter tires for a few months a year). I don't usually drive like crazy (and it's an SR+ which is the least powerful model).
    - rafaelmn 2y ago
      True, and you can do engine breaking and do milder acceleration curves in ICE car and that will significantly reduce the pad/tire wear. But if you drive like, I would speculate, most people do, Tesla will go through tires like a track car (half joking)

Schiendelman 2y ago

Regenerative braking has much less tire wear than traditional braking because it's done much more slowly and smoothly. Also, none of these discussions use up-to-date information on EV tires. Consumers aren't willing to replace their tires much more often for an EV except at the high end of the market, tire manufacturers are already making tires last much longer for EV purposes. New designs are already shedding less dust per unit mass of the vehicle than they were a few years ago. Plus, some manufacturers are now working to reduce the toxicity of their formulas. This will eliminate the issues a lot more.

snozolli 2y ago
Regenerative braking has much less tire wear than traditional braking because it's done much more slowly and smoothly. Absent any evidence, I don't believe that claim. Unless you're skidding, I don't see how braking slowly and smoothly over a longer period causes any less tire wear than braking more rapidly for a shorter time. Additionally, since this is intrinsically tied to EVs, they weigh more and thus increase tire wear in all conditions.
- kstrauser 2y ago
  That seems plausible to me. Tires are made from rubber. If friction forces exceed how strong the rubber particles stick to each other, they get pulled loose. And road surfaces aren’t perfectly smooth, so when you’re accelerating, some rubber particles will experience more force than others. It seems believable that hard braking, even without leaving skid marks, could pull more rubber off a tire than gradual braking.
- NewJazz 2y ago
  Slower braking is generally accepted to cause less brake pad wear. I was only able to find this article, but I'm sure more convincing evidence can be found if you do more research than the quick ddg and clicking on the first result I did. Hard Braking: Less experienced drivers often react late to situations, slamming on the brakes instead of slowing down gradually. This creates more friction and heat, reducing pad lifespan. https://www.bimmer-mag.com/car-disc-brakes-wearing-out/ https://www.bimmer-mag.com/car-disc-brakes-wearing-out/
  - Dylan16807 2y ago
    The claim was tire wear, not brake wear.
- smileysteve 2y ago
  Weight shift is a good reason, rear and all wheel drive Regen should result in 2+x as much contact patch, versus friction brakes typically favor the front 70/30, applying 70% of braking to only 2 tires.
- Kirby64 2y ago
  The same exact reason that accelerating quickly causes far more tire wear than accelerating slowly, only in reverse. By applying more torque to brake/accelerate, you cause more lateral force on the tires (think, smearing the rubber itself) which is what causes tire wear. With more force the rubber is stretched further, which fatigues it and breaks off pieces of it over time.
- maigret 2y ago
  > Absent any evidence, I don't believe that claim Acceleration and deceleration is calculated the same way: m/s^2. If you decelerate faster you put more stress on the system in a non-linear way - the square of it actually. This is why sport and race cars have huge brakes. The tire friction will also augment non-linearly - it will hold a certain acceleration and then quickly give up (slipping point), but the energy has to be transferred and partly absorbed all the time. > they weigh more and thus increase tire wear in all conditions Then get a lighter one if that is your concern. Defaulting to ICE is the wrong idea because they have much more externalities (like one ton of fuel per year that needs actually around 1.5 if you include the extraction and transport).
rafaelmn 2y ago
Teslas eat tires for breakfast. Instant torque and high weight - any benefit you get from regen breaking is not scratching that.
- Schiendelman 2y ago
  As a Tesla owner, I'm 33k in on a set of all seasons and still in the green on two. You can't move the goalposts like that - the same is true on an ICE sports car.
- hedora 2y ago
  That’s nothing compared to an i3: I don’t even get 10K miles per set. Some people report getting as many as 12K with conservative driving. Part of the problem is the instant torque, but the narrow geometry is a bigger issue. Also, they did something to the formulation that achieves less rolling resistance for increased wear. I also don’t think the weight is the main issue. The i3 is a bit under 3000 lbs. That’s the same as a Volvo station wagon, and they didn’t have this problem. (If I remember right, you could get 50K mile Michelins for them.)
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  This probably depends quite a bit on your acceleration/braking settings.
- YZF 2y ago
  My model 3 is 5 years old and I'm still on my original set of tires (though in recent years I do put on winter tires for a few months a year). I don't usually drive like crazy (and it's an SR+ which is the least powerful model).
  - rafaelmn 2y ago
    True, and you can do engine breaking and do milder acceleration curves in ICE car and that will significantly reduce the pad/tire wear. But if you drive like, I would speculate, most people do, Tesla will go through tires like a track car (half joking)