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So weird. RFK is now in charge of this stuff for humans, and is anti-vax, but apparently our gov't thinks vaccines are fine for chickens.
by sporkydistance 2y ago
So weird. RFK is now in charge of this stuff for humans, and is anti-vax, but apparently our gov't thinks vaccines are fine for chickens.
- toomuchtodo 2y agoUnvaccinated people die, unvaccinated poultry is an existential risk to the ag industry. Different incentives making the palatability of solutions malleable when pushed through mental models and belief systems, like making sausage.
- sporkydistance 2y ago[flagged]
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> then the rubes die and the right-wing support evaporates (like how there were 1e6 fewer republican voters in 2020) “Overall, the excess death rate for Republican voters was 2.8 percentage points, or 15%, higher than the excess death rate for Democratic voters (95% prediction interval [PI], 1.6-3.7 percentage points). After May 1, 2021, when vaccines were available to all adults, the excess death rate gap between Republican and Democratic voters widened from −0.9 percentage point (95% PI, −2.5 to 0.3 percentage points) to 7.7 percentage points (95% PI, 6.0-9.3 percentage points) in the adjusted analysis; the excess death rate among Republican voters was 43% higher than the excess death rate among Democratic voters. The gap in excess death rates between Republican and Democratic voters was larger in counties with lower vaccination rates and was primarily noted in voters residing in Ohio [1]. Somewhat morbid, but one more pandemic would probably permanently shift some swing states’ partisan balances. [1] https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullarticle/2807617 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jamainternalmedicine/fullar...
- darth_avocado 2y agoIf it’s that big of a risk that poultry industry will die, shouldn’t we also be concerned about the fact that the birds in the wild will also die off? Wouldn’t that threaten the broader economy much more?
- koolba 2y agoThe wild is where these diseases tend to originate. But the distribution of populations over thousands of square miles ensures some groups will avoid even the most virulent strains. The risk and impact to domesticated flocks is increased due to the sheer density of modern poultry operations.
- janice1999 2y agoNot just density but also lack of genetic diversity, as seen in other agri sectors like honey production.
- mschuster91 2y agoOr even plants. Most infamous example are bananas, virtually all banana that you can buy in a supermarket will have the exact same DNA.
- hedora 2y agoHigh density agricultural facilities provide perfect conditions for producing novel diseases. You have a bunch of stressed animals living right on top of each other, and each one ends up testing out large number of minor variations of the disease until they breed one that’s good enough to escape containment.
- logicchains 2y ago>unvaccinated poultry is an existential risk to the ag industry The number of chickens killed by bird flu is miniscule compared to the amount that have been culled by hyperventilation bureaucrats. Chickens have survived thousands of years without being rendered extinct by a virus, that's not going to suddenly change, because that's how evolutionary dynamics work.
- stetrain 2y agoThere's a difference between going extinct and having enough of a mass die-off to temporarily but significantly impact our economy and food supply. I think any regulatory policy would be trying to avoid the latter more than the former. Chickens have survived for thousands of years, but not in quantities and conditions that we cultivate them in today to feed ourselves.
- NdMAND 2y agoI'd be careful with that - in the past there were no "mega-chicken-factories" that you'd find nowadays. So you can't quite compare spread of viruses in chicken today with the last "thousands of years" without very large asterisks Edit: stetrain phrased it better :)
- roughly 2y agoPandemics became a thing among humans when we moved into cities because the increase in population density meant the disease could spread faster than the population’s immunity could build. Chickens in the wild (insofar as “wild chicken” is a meaningful concept) indeed may not succumb to a pandemic, chickens in a factory farm spread disease rapidly amongst themselves.
- logicchains 2y agoFactory farms have been around for almost a century and that hasn't happened. Nothing's changed now, there's absolutely no empirical evidence that such a thing is happening.
- 2y ago
- hedora 2y agoActually, the last I checked, this vaccine will be bad for the industry. It prevents exports, which will lead to a supply glut. So, in addition to the hit from culling chickens last year, paying for the vaccine, the big producers will see their income tank way more on average than if they just culled a few states worth of chickens and then sold the remaining at market rates. On the other hand, this action should lower the price of eggs in the US, and makes it less likely that Trump will have to deal with pro-vaccine folks that don’t want their loved ones to needlessly die. I’m guessing they don’t want to distract their propaganda machine by making it explain that everything is great again, and your personal experience with flu deaths is an outlier. Also, it will help further isolate the US economy, which should reduce the economic shock if Trump follows through with his plan to launch a four front invasion of Canada, Greenland, Panama and Gaza. I’m hoping the “they did it so less people will die” theory is correct, to be clear.
- SG- 2y agovaccinated chickens hasn't had any health impact on Canadian's with it's own chickens vaccinated for a while now.
- cudgy 2y agoHow do you know there’s been no health impact on Canadians?
- adamredwoods 2y agoBecause of science. There is zero evidence that viruses like H5N1 survive through cooking. So if the vaccine is using a dead virus, there is almost zero chance it will have any affect on cooked food. https://www.canada.ca/en/services/health/food-safety/highly-pathogenic-avian-influenza-hpai.html https://www.canada.ca/en/services/health/food-safety/highly-...
- hedora 2y agoAlso, Canada doesn’t allow this vaccine, so anyone claiming it’s caused a public health crisis there is peddling some highly refined bullshit. :-)
- cudgy 2y agoSays “Because of science” and fires off a single article from the government of Canada that has nothing to do with the issue of whether the vaccination itself causes problems in humans with consumption of animals vaccinated. Apparently, we have a different idea what science is. I’d like to leave it at that. Any other takers?
- adamredwoods 2y ago"Nothing"? The link states that "is no evidence to suggest that the consumption of fully cooked poultry, beef, game meat, organs or eggs can transmit the influenza A(H5N1) virus to humans". The vaccine is made of a dead virus. Thus, heat kills virus, heat kills vaccine. >> Apparently, we have a different idea what science is. Arrogant dismissal.
- hedora 2y agoHalf of RFK’s platform is insane. The other half makes sense. He claimed he’d focus on the reasonable half (like banning ultra processed foods). I’m hoping that’s true. However, vaccinating the chickens creates a huge trade barrier (because you cannot sell vaccinated poultry products in most places), so this could just be another example of Trump’s isolationist trade policies. I guess we can hope they did this to improve public health, but I suspect it’s more of “a stopped clock is right twice a day” situation.
- logicchains 2y ago[flagged]
- sumeno 2y agoThis website is trying to confuse people into thinking it is the Journal of Public Health Policy, an actual reputable source. It's just more antivax horseshit
- sepositus 2y agoYeah, I've struggled to understand this, especially since it seems the belief goes hand-in-hand with a hatred of late-stage capitalism. How are people reconciling this? It's clear these companies continue to lobby to make money hand over fist with hardly no interest in the safety or health of their consumers.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> It's clear these companies continue to lobby to make money hand over fist Antivaxxers are a supplements-industry bonanza.
- sepositus 2y agoWhy did you change the subject?
- 2y ago
- LordKeren 2y agoPoultry doesn’t usually vote
- duxup 2y agoTheir owners do fund campaigns though I bet.
- sepositus 2y ago[flagged]
- Aloisius 2y agoLinked how? Run your own double blind experiment on a large population to show a high enough correlation to suggest causation for similar symptoms? Peeked into parallel universe where you weren't vaccinated?
- sepositus 2y agoLogical deductions over four years. Thousands of dollars in medical payments to track down degeneration that is uncommon in my age range. Test after test with doctors shrugging, saying I'm perfectly fine. Symptoms started a couple of months after I was vaccinated. Total coincidence? Some other undiagnosed underlying medical condition? Sure. It's easy to play devil's advocate when it supports your pre-existing beliefs. FWIW, I wasn't labeled anti-vax until I made this statement. I've had pretty much every vaccine given to average residents, including flu shots. But alas, questioning the side effects of just one is enough to get you labeled by the extremists. Literally, _just questioning_ this one vaccine and I'm all of the sudden "against vaccines." It's a tribal level of insanity. The only people who don't see it are the ones perpetuating it.
- robotpepi 2y agoEven a paracetamol can kill you if you're unlucky enough. You have to look at the big picture. Anyway, I strongly believe that your vaccine didn't cause any problems, you're just hallucinating a link, probably because you need a link to justify something else.
- milesrout 2y agoMaybe it isn't "so weird" and people's views are more subtle than the broad strokes painted by the media would lead you to believe.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago> apparently our gov't thinks vaccines are fine for chickens Egg prices are a meme. Our egg prices are high while our vaccinating neighbours’ aren’t. We don’t want to import their cheap eggs. We don’t want to trash our export prospects by loosening culling requirements. So the only choice left is vaccination.
- Izkata 2y agoHe's not anti-vax, he's pro-vax. He just wants to make sure the risks are actually known before we do things like mass-produce a new vaccine.