9 ms·

Bookshop.org launches Kindle alternative, sends e-book sales to local bookstores

263 points by dotcoma 2y ago

gnabgib 2y ago
Discussion (28 points, 18 days ago, 9 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42854675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42854675
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  This is always interesting to me, the random vitality of knowledge here. What was it that made that other post flop? I mean it was pretty much the same group of people here, so it is not the knowledge of this that really triggered this to be on the front page, so what does the HN community really value then?
  - dewey 2y ago
    Time of the day, day of the week. Other topics that are popular at the time. There’s a lot of factors and it’s not always the quality of the submission. That’s why the second chance pool exists.
  - mdaniel 2y ago
    > What was it that made that other post flop? My long-standing question is why the holy hell is there no dupe checker? It's not that I care about some rando having their submission get 1600 points 3 hours after an identical one. It's often the problem of a medium-level discussion happening on a submission, then the later submission really catches fire and the first audience has no idea unless the second happens to make the front page. The second audience rehashes the talking points already covered by the first audience, and only dang can do an update to merge them together if someone cares enough to email them. So much manual curation for a site about using technology to solve problems
smcin 2y ago
Bookshop.org just launched, US-only initially, with 3 million titles; they pay affiliates 30% commission, whereas Amazon apparently pays Kindle affiliates 5-10% commission (+ bounties for SM campaigns, which is getting annoyingly overdone). One way we can boost Bookshop.org is anytime we cite a book to use their URL instead of Amazon's URL. So here's "Nineteen Eighty Four" https://bookshop.org/p/books/nineteen-eighty-four-george-orwell/18316715 https://bookshop.org/p/books/nineteen-eighty-four-george-orw... Yes they should add a filter for DRM-free, or allow setting it as your default. From TheVerge article: *"The app... has a unique social feature: “We’ll allow anybody to share any quote from any ebook to social media, and then people who are on social can click through, buy the ebook, and start reading it on their phone immediately.”"
- bwb 2y ago
  They pay affiliates 10%, it is only indie bookstores who get 30%.
  - smcin 2y ago
    Ok. I misrecollected the articles by TheVerge + others said: "Bookshop’s deal is the same for ebooks and physical books — the store gets 30 percent of the list price." (and doesn't mention affiliates but other articles do) Suggest you should drop your comment on that article, it's potentially misleading. https://www.theverge.com/tech/597137/bookshop-org-ebooks https://www.theverge.com/tech/597137/bookshop-org-ebooks
    - bwb 2y ago
      No worries, mainstream media goes fast, and they rarely fix errors (they might have even had AI write most of this to get the clicks).
      - rafram 2y ago
        The Verge story was entirely accurate - GP misread it. And The Verge isn’t AI slop.
nottorp 2y ago
Not that it's available for me yet, but what are they selling? Can I transfer the books to a device of my choice *, or are they DRM encumbered and always online? * we read on a Kindle and an iPad in my house. For as long as the Kindle supports local uploading of books via Calibre, at least.
- lazyasciiart 2y ago
  The FAQ says no kindle reading, but an android and iOS app for now, and many (most?) books will be DRM restricted but doesn’t mention requiring online. https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks#EBOOKFAQ https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks#EBOOKFAQ
  - nottorp 2y ago
    > Due to Amazon's proprietary digital rights management software (DRM) and publishers' DRM requirements, it’s not currently possible to buy ebooks from Bookshop.org or local bookstores and read them on your Kindle. Eh it's very possible for DRM free ebooks with Calibre.
    - bluebarbet 2y ago
      But a laborious multi-step process that few ordinary people are ready to attempt.
      - nottorp 2y ago
        For DRM free it's open in Calibre, click send to device while the Kindle is connected. Not much difference from opening a Word document? For DRM encumbered I don't know but I assume it's significantly more complex indeed.
      - wkat4242 2y ago
        Not really. You can email them to your Kindle address and it will convert them for you if needed (like with epub). No calibre needed.
WillAdams 2y ago
I would need a couple of things to make this workable for me: - an e-reader implementation/support on an e-ink device --- looks like the Android app on a Boox or something similar would cover that - regular sales --- the $1.99 offerings which Amazon and most other e-book vendors offer have thus far pretty much kept abreast or ahead of my reading inclinations (even filtering for where they intersect with my interests) - a robust organization/filtering where _all_ versions of a given text show up under a single listing/page (there are a couple of books where I have multiple copies because it was re-published with a new foreword and the old listing vanished and there was _no_ indication that I already owned it --- similarly, this should include _all_ public domain work, and including the entirety of Project Gutenberg (preferably not for free, but for some nominal amount which is then donated to that project) would make usage a _lot_ easier - a way to buy gift cards using Microsoft Rewards points (or cash) --- remember the sales I mentioned, I never spend more than discretionary money on e-books - a mechanism for reporting typos/conversion errors which actually works --- the first e-book I "bought", Robert Heinlein's _Space Cadet_ was so rife with errors that it was unreadable --- I actually had to check a copy out from a local library so as to be able to write up a list of all the typos --- even now, I still find typos in books (_Dune_, which I didn't buy/re-read on my Kindle still had typos in it ("pogrom" rendered as "program", a formatting error for one of the _s_ glossary entries, a couple of others) despite having had millions of downloads before I got around to reading it. I would also like to have an ebook format where more effort is given to annotation/decoration, and where that would re-flow based on screen size (cue the discussion I tried to have with my boss where I wanted to make an e-book app and matching format back when the iPhone first launched...)
briandear 2y ago
What problem is this solving for me as a reader? Between Apple Books and Kindle, I’m not sure why I should care. The idea of supporting local bookshops sounds nice in theory, but just as digital photos killed the photo processing business, the romanticized idea of the local bookstore will become obsolete — aside from the cool antiquarian and used book stores. As far as recommendations, my local bookstores are often staffed by people that don’t have much in common with my interests. Much easier to find relevant book recommendations online.
- sriram_malhar 2y ago
  YMMV, but not funneling money to the oligarchs is a good thing for society, in my opinion. This is about the only way we can vote.
- madeofpalk 2y ago
  Bookshop.org is explicitly a platform for not supporting Amazon, and to support independent bookshops instead. Either you care about that and this appeals to you, or it doesn't. They seem to have found a niche and are doing alright.
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    But why would anybody want to support a bookshop? The only interest would be to support authors.
    - sriram_malhar 2y ago
      It isn't just about the books or authors, just as a cafe isn't just about the bean-growers. Bookshops are social hubs. They give you a chance to browse and see what else is available in the area you are searching and often, not even in the area you are searching. For me, a good bookshop makes an area worthwhile to visit and hang out.
      - carlosjobim 2y ago
        Sure, I agree. But now we're talking about digital downloads. What value does the bookshop give the consumer in that case?
Apocryphon 2y ago
I’ve only used Bookshop.org a couple of times, but I have to say that I barely use Amazon anymore for actual books buying. I’ve used the ThriftBooks, Alibris, Biblio, Barnes & Noble, eBay, my own local bookstores. Book sales are completely commodified and Amazon is not really any more compelling except you might save on shipping.
- fn-mote 2y ago
  All those other sites that you mention would have to be BETTER than Amazon to get me to switch. Which isn’t my experience with B&N, at least. I’ll be honest, though, I was surprised to learn that Alibris isn’t an Amazon subsidiary.
  - insane_dreamer 2y ago
    Check out Thriftbooks (used books only)
  - Apocryphon 2y ago
    Amazon as a website is way more heavy-duty than it needs to be, and its overall UX is stuck in the mid-00s.
lolinder 2y ago
This is great news, but the lack of a filter for DRM-free—coupled with the inability to send any other types of titles to an e-reader—makes this pretty useless for a lot of us. An e-ink display really does make all the difference for me to be willing to read e-books. Hopefully they improve the filters with time and it's not an intentional decision to appease publishers. I recently discovered and have been enjoying libro.fm for audio books. Can anyone here recommend a good source of DRM-free e-books?
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  Can't you use their app or books on your e-ink reader?
  - notesinthefield 2y ago
    At the moment there is no way to download books neither from app nor website and not all ereaders support the installation of the app. I only found out about this by listening to a podcast the CEO recently did. Bookshop also wont refund ebook sales.
  - goosedragons 2y ago
    Only if you have an Android ereader that supports installing apps.
    - carlosjobim 2y ago
      That should be every e-reader except for Kindle, as far as I know.
      - deleted 2y ago
        [deleted]
      - goosedragons 2y ago
        No, Kobo and Pocketbook run Linux. Most of the Sony models too. Some Android readers like Tolino and Nook don't allow installing apps without jailbreaking.
II2II 2y ago
Please forgive my cynicism, but this strikes me as coming straight out of the, "we're building a tech company for social change," handbook. The handbook which tries to lure people in with a promise, where their intent is to build their own corporate empire and to give everyone else the short stick in the end. Don't get me wrong. If they were up there saying they were doing it for publishers or authors, I may find some integrity in their claim. After all, they are the ones hurting from Amazon's dominance, they are the ones who would benefit by bringing their products to consumers via other channels, and they are the ones bringing something to the table. But independent bookstores? Don't get me wrong, I want to see them thrive. Yet it doesn't look like they are bringing much to the table here. Once you get past the landing page with books they (likely) curated for their intended market, there isn't much of a reason for them to exist in this particular marketplace. It doesn't much look like Bookshop.org facilitates them offering much unique to the particular bookstore's customers. For things like store events or community news or even a unique presentation of the store's products one would have to follow the links to the bookstore's social media pages or website. While independent bookstores may benefit from an increased online presence in the short term, I'm left asking the question: what is preventing Bookshop.org from capturing their customers, decreasing commissions, and even blocking those links to the store's actual independent online presence in the medium to long term? Maybe Bookshop.org's intent is genuine. The problem is that I've seen similar games being played out too many times before.
- greenie_beans 2y ago
  bookshop.org is basically a website for ingram distribution, the primary distribution company for indies. all the bookselling members get a commission for all sales on the platform, so it is very beneficial to the participating bookstores. bookshop.org exists separately from a lot of stores ecommerce website, though the bigger stores don't always participate in bookshop because they fear it will take away from their ecommerce sales. it's more aimed towards smaller stores who can't afford the time or money for a good ecommerce store, but also, i'm assuming trying to compete with amazon seo which would ultimately support indies since they split commissions from all the sales. > While independent bookstores may benefit from an increased online presence in the short term, I'm left asking the question: what is preventing Bookshop.org from capturing their customers, decreasing commissions, and even blocking those links to the store's actual independent online presence in the medium to long term? trust. it was started by somebody whose career demonstrated they are committed to supporting indies and literature. if you've been around booksellers, then you know how important this trust is. the booksellers are also very loud and opinionated so the company will know if they are making wrong decisions. the stores feel like they have somewhat of an ownership to bookshop (though not legally). you might say, "well trust can be broken" and you're right but we're talking about a niche industry with a limited market size, and no potential for world domination/incentive to break the trust. i know it's crazy but some folks still do business like that. the platform's success depends on the relationship with the booksellers, so what happens when they break that trust? before this, indies didn't have much helping them online except custom ecommerce stores that some stores can't afford and are generally not good software imo. bookshop.org is hardly competing with amazon here. there is no huge market capture they're after. they're just trying to help bookstores stay alive and compete. source, i made ecommerce software for independent bookstores: https://bookhead.net https://bookhead.net (edits for pre-coffee typos)
AstroJetson 2y ago
I use Bookfinder.com on a regular basis to find DRM free dead tree books. It searches across all of the big new/used book vendors and also the smaller “thrift store / Goodwill” book dealers (even eBay buy now) Sorts in New and Used groupings then by price. But like the software “Quality, Cost, Delivery” triangle, the delivery is 99% by USPS media mail, so it’s 5-7 business days to get the book. It would be interesting to see Bookshop to hookup with Bookfinder to give them another search method.
- desolved 2y ago
  Bookfinder is owned by Amazon.
  - mdaniel 2y ago
    It took some clicking but in its footer is "BookFinder.com is an independent subsidiary of AbeBooks" and then https://www.abebooks.com/about/#:~:text=we're%20a%20subsidiary%20of%20amazon.com https://www.abebooks.com/about/#:~:text=we're%20a%20subsidia...
    - AstroJetson 2y ago
      Now I'm sad. It reminds me of this chart that shows that 10 companies own a huge swath of the major brands. https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/11dvxaj/a_chart_showing_what_companies_own_which_brands/#lightbox https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/11dvx...
mkbkn 2y ago
Opened the website from India and it says blocked for you. Thanks, bye bye.
- crossroadsguy 2y ago
  Same experience and then you are being downvoted for sounding disappointed. As if it’s justified in some convoluted way - this sort of geoblock.
NoboruWataya 2y ago
For anyone interested, https://www.hive.co.uk/books https://www.hive.co.uk/books is a UK alternative and has offered ebooks for a while.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- onetokeoverthe 2y ago
  They've managed to update their website so well it's unviewable
wccrawford 2y ago
> But now, Hunter says there’s “no reason on Earth to give a billionaire your $9.99 for your e-book,” Except, many of the books I want to read are self-published by small authors, and are only available on Amazon, probably because of how easy it is to self-publish there. I hope they can fix that, because it's my current biggest complaint about owning a Kobo reader.
- WolfeReader 2y ago
  Making an ePub is easy as pie - look into PanDoc for one trivial-to-use CLI application which can do the job using Word docs or Markdown as a source and emit ePub, PDF, and other ebook formats. The idea that Amazon is essential to self-published ebooks is blatantly false, and is encouraged by Amazon to lock authors into the Kindle ecosystem.
  - onetokeoverthe 2y ago
    Calibre is another free easy to use epub making software
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - noman-land 2y ago
    Is there something for converting pdf to epub?
    - WolfeReader 2y ago
      Yes, but: 1. Calibre can do the job for the case of mostly-text PDFs, while keeping images too of course. I haven't done this, but a quick search reveals that it can give inconsistent results (mostly depending on the source PDF of course). 2. If the "text" of the PDF is actually just an image, consider OCR instead, or treat it as a digital comic as I'll cover next: 3. For digital comics, a different program called CBConvert is what you want. I actually don't think ePubs are the best format for comics, and usually convert to CBZ format instead; CBConvert has this all covered.
Ekaros 2y ago
So what are the guarantees that I keep the material I buy if they ever winddown and what is the timeframe for this. That how many years I have time to get DRM free version? At this point I won't buy digital material unless the platform is extremely established and have proven track record say like Steam or Amazon.
- anotherevan 2y ago
  None. From their ebook FAQ page - https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks > Do l own the ebooks I purchase outright? > The publishers of our ebooks require that the ebooks you “purchase” from Bookshop.org are only licensed to you. Even DRM-free books are subject to some restrictions and may not be owned outright. However, even in the case of an ebook being removed from Bookshop.org by the publisher, users who purchased the ebook previously will continue to have access to the ebook file. Depending on the circumstances, in the unlikely event an ebook is removed from your library because of a rights issue or otherwise, Bookshop.org will refund the purchase price you paid.
habosa 2y ago
I’ve been waiting for this for so long. I love bookstores and want them to exist but really prefer to read books on an ereader because they don’t take up space and it’s easier for me to read at night. Right now my solution is to buy Kindle books and then make yearly donations to my favorite bookstores (if they accept them) and buy gifts at the bookstore. But that’s not realistic as a plan. This is so close to perfect. Right now to read these I’d need to get an ereader that runs full Android (BOOX, etc) which isn’t what I want. But they say they’re working on a partnership with Kobo, so I’ll wait for that and then finally ditch my Kindle.
- foobarchu 2y ago
  Good to hear there's a Kobo partnership in the works. I was so excited when I saw this announcement, only to find it was exclusively through an app. Reading books on a phone or tablet is honestly my least favorite reading method. I've always loved that Humble Bundle books are usually either Kobo licenses or drm-free formats that can be side loaded.
  - currymj 2y ago
    android e-ink tablets are now a decent user experience and let you read ebooks through the apps. there are many form factors including e-reader like.
- wafflemaker 2y ago
  Amazon is killing "download and transfer to kindle by USB" in 9 days (on 24th of February, 2025 - that's 2/24/25 for Americans), so you might want to hurry if you want to read your Amazon titles on other readers.
  - Dxtros 2y ago
    This really sucks. I do think you can still download books from an older version of kindle for pc. Hopefully they don’t axe this feature as well.
  - habosa 2y ago
42772827 2y ago
If this kind of thing interests you, consider libro.fm for drm-free audiobooks
anotherevan 2y ago
I see they are committing the same fraud as Amazon, in that most of the titles are encumbered with digital restrictions management, but the button to 'purchase' says "buy" instead of "lease". From their FAQ page - https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks > Do l own the ebooks I purchase outright? > The publishers of our ebooks require that the ebooks you “purchase” from Bookshop.org are only licensed to you. Even DRM-free books are subject to some restrictions and may not be owned outright. However, even in the case of an ebook being removed from Bookshop.org by the publisher, users who purchased the ebook previously will continue to have access to the ebook file. Depending on the circumstances, in the unlikely event an ebook is removed from your library because of a rights issue or otherwise, Bookshop.org will refund the purchase price you paid.
crossroadsguy 2y ago
Well.. > Sorry, you have been blocked > You are unable to access bookshop.org > You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. I guess a geo block? Wow! Either way I think I’ll pass.

263 points by dotcoma 2y ago

Discussion (28 points, 18 days ago, 9 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42854675 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42854675

FollowingTheDao 2y ago
This is always interesting to me, the random vitality of knowledge here. What was it that made that other post flop? I mean it was pretty much the same group of people here, so it is not the knowledge of this that really triggered this to be on the front page, so what does the HN community really value then?
- dewey 2y ago
  Time of the day, day of the week. Other topics that are popular at the time. There’s a lot of factors and it’s not always the quality of the submission. That’s why the second chance pool exists.
- mdaniel 2y ago
  > What was it that made that other post flop? My long-standing question is why the holy hell is there no dupe checker? It's not that I care about some rando having their submission get 1600 points 3 hours after an identical one. It's often the problem of a medium-level discussion happening on a submission, then the later submission really catches fire and the first audience has no idea unless the second happens to make the front page. The second audience rehashes the talking points already covered by the first audience, and only dang can do an update to merge them together if someone cares enough to email them. So much manual curation for a site about using technology to solve problems

smcin 2y ago

Bookshop.org just launched, US-only initially, with 3 million titles; they pay affiliates 30% commission, whereas Amazon apparently pays Kindle affiliates 5-10% commission (+ bounties for SM campaigns, which is getting annoyingly overdone). One way we can boost Bookshop.org is anytime we cite a book to use their URL instead of Amazon's URL. So here's "Nineteen Eighty Four" https://bookshop.org/p/books/nineteen-eighty-four-george-orwell/18316715 https://bookshop.org/p/books/nineteen-eighty-four-george-orw... Yes they should add a filter for DRM-free, or allow setting it as your default. From TheVerge article: *"The app... has a unique social feature: “We’ll allow anybody to share any quote from any ebook to social media, and then people who are on social can click through, buy the ebook, and start reading it on their phone immediately.”"

bwb 2y ago
They pay affiliates 10%, it is only indie bookstores who get 30%.
- smcin 2y ago
  Ok. I misrecollected the articles by TheVerge + others said: "Bookshop’s deal is the same for ebooks and physical books — the store gets 30 percent of the list price." (and doesn't mention affiliates but other articles do) Suggest you should drop your comment on that article, it's potentially misleading. https://www.theverge.com/tech/597137/bookshop-org-ebooks https://www.theverge.com/tech/597137/bookshop-org-ebooks
  - bwb 2y ago
    No worries, mainstream media goes fast, and they rarely fix errors (they might have even had AI write most of this to get the clicks).
    - rafram 2y ago
      The Verge story was entirely accurate - GP misread it. And The Verge isn’t AI slop.

nottorp 2y ago

Not that it's available for me yet, but what are they selling? Can I transfer the books to a device of my choice *, or are they DRM encumbered and always online? * we read on a Kindle and an iPad in my house. For as long as the Kindle supports local uploading of books via Calibre, at least.

lazyasciiart 2y ago
The FAQ says no kindle reading, but an android and iOS app for now, and many (most?) books will be DRM restricted but doesn’t mention requiring online. https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks#EBOOKFAQ https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks#EBOOKFAQ
- nottorp 2y ago
  > Due to Amazon's proprietary digital rights management software (DRM) and publishers' DRM requirements, it’s not currently possible to buy ebooks from Bookshop.org or local bookstores and read them on your Kindle. Eh it's very possible for DRM free ebooks with Calibre.
  - bluebarbet 2y ago
    But a laborious multi-step process that few ordinary people are ready to attempt.
    - nottorp 2y ago
      For DRM free it's open in Calibre, click send to device while the Kindle is connected. Not much difference from opening a Word document? For DRM encumbered I don't know but I assume it's significantly more complex indeed.
    - wkat4242 2y ago
      Not really. You can email them to your Kindle address and it will convert them for you if needed (like with epub). No calibre needed.

WillAdams 2y ago

I would need a couple of things to make this workable for me: - an e-reader implementation/support on an e-ink device --- looks like the Android app on a Boox or something similar would cover that - regular sales --- the $1.99 offerings which Amazon and most other e-book vendors offer have thus far pretty much kept abreast or ahead of my reading inclinations (even filtering for where they intersect with my interests) - a robust organization/filtering where _all_ versions of a given text show up under a single listing/page (there are a couple of books where I have multiple copies because it was re-published with a new foreword and the old listing vanished and there was _no_ indication that I already owned it --- similarly, this should include _all_ public domain work, and including the entirety of Project Gutenberg (preferably not for free, but for some nominal amount which is then donated to that project) would make usage a _lot_ easier - a way to buy gift cards using Microsoft Rewards points (or cash) --- remember the sales I mentioned, I never spend more than discretionary money on e-books - a mechanism for reporting typos/conversion errors which actually works --- the first e-book I "bought", Robert Heinlein's _Space Cadet_ was so rife with errors that it was unreadable --- I actually had to check a copy out from a local library so as to be able to write up a list of all the typos --- even now, I still find typos in books (_Dune_, which I didn't buy/re-read on my Kindle still had typos in it ("pogrom" rendered as "program", a formatting error for one of the _s_ glossary entries, a couple of others) despite having had millions of downloads before I got around to reading it. I would also like to have an ebook format where more effort is given to annotation/decoration, and where that would re-flow based on screen size (cue the discussion I tried to have with my boss where I wanted to make an e-book app and matching format back when the iPhone first launched...)

briandear 2y ago

What problem is this solving for me as a reader? Between Apple Books and Kindle, I’m not sure why I should care. The idea of supporting local bookshops sounds nice in theory, but just as digital photos killed the photo processing business, the romanticized idea of the local bookstore will become obsolete — aside from the cool antiquarian and used book stores. As far as recommendations, my local bookstores are often staffed by people that don’t have much in common with my interests. Much easier to find relevant book recommendations online.

sriram_malhar 2y ago
YMMV, but not funneling money to the oligarchs is a good thing for society, in my opinion. This is about the only way we can vote.
madeofpalk 2y ago
Bookshop.org is explicitly a platform for not supporting Amazon, and to support independent bookshops instead. Either you care about that and this appeals to you, or it doesn't. They seem to have found a niche and are doing alright.
- carlosjobim 2y ago
  But why would anybody want to support a bookshop? The only interest would be to support authors.
  - sriram_malhar 2y ago
    It isn't just about the books or authors, just as a cafe isn't just about the bean-growers. Bookshops are social hubs. They give you a chance to browse and see what else is available in the area you are searching and often, not even in the area you are searching. For me, a good bookshop makes an area worthwhile to visit and hang out.
    - carlosjobim 2y ago
      Sure, I agree. But now we're talking about digital downloads. What value does the bookshop give the consumer in that case?

Apocryphon 2y ago

I’ve only used Bookshop.org a couple of times, but I have to say that I barely use Amazon anymore for actual books buying. I’ve used the ThriftBooks, Alibris, Biblio, Barnes & Noble, eBay, my own local bookstores. Book sales are completely commodified and Amazon is not really any more compelling except you might save on shipping.

fn-mote 2y ago
All those other sites that you mention would have to be BETTER than Amazon to get me to switch. Which isn’t my experience with B&N, at least. I’ll be honest, though, I was surprised to learn that Alibris isn’t an Amazon subsidiary.
- insane_dreamer 2y ago
  Check out Thriftbooks (used books only)
- Apocryphon 2y ago
  Amazon as a website is way more heavy-duty than it needs to be, and its overall UX is stuck in the mid-00s.

lolinder 2y ago

This is great news, but the lack of a filter for DRM-free—coupled with the inability to send any other types of titles to an e-reader—makes this pretty useless for a lot of us. An e-ink display really does make all the difference for me to be willing to read e-books. Hopefully they improve the filters with time and it's not an intentional decision to appease publishers. I recently discovered and have been enjoying libro.fm for audio books. Can anyone here recommend a good source of DRM-free e-books?

carlosjobim 2y ago
Can't you use their app or books on your e-ink reader?
- notesinthefield 2y ago
  At the moment there is no way to download books neither from app nor website and not all ereaders support the installation of the app. I only found out about this by listening to a podcast the CEO recently did. Bookshop also wont refund ebook sales.
- goosedragons 2y ago
  Only if you have an Android ereader that supports installing apps.
  - carlosjobim 2y ago
    That should be every e-reader except for Kindle, as far as I know.
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - goosedragons 2y ago
      No, Kobo and Pocketbook run Linux. Most of the Sony models too. Some Android readers like Tolino and Nook don't allow installing apps without jailbreaking.

II2II 2y ago

Please forgive my cynicism, but this strikes me as coming straight out of the, "we're building a tech company for social change," handbook. The handbook which tries to lure people in with a promise, where their intent is to build their own corporate empire and to give everyone else the short stick in the end. Don't get me wrong. If they were up there saying they were doing it for publishers or authors, I may find some integrity in their claim. After all, they are the ones hurting from Amazon's dominance, they are the ones who would benefit by bringing their products to consumers via other channels, and they are the ones bringing something to the table. But independent bookstores? Don't get me wrong, I want to see them thrive. Yet it doesn't look like they are bringing much to the table here. Once you get past the landing page with books they (likely) curated for their intended market, there isn't much of a reason for them to exist in this particular marketplace. It doesn't much look like Bookshop.org facilitates them offering much unique to the particular bookstore's customers. For things like store events or community news or even a unique presentation of the store's products one would have to follow the links to the bookstore's social media pages or website. While independent bookstores may benefit from an increased online presence in the short term, I'm left asking the question: what is preventing Bookshop.org from capturing their customers, decreasing commissions, and even blocking those links to the store's actual independent online presence in the medium to long term? Maybe Bookshop.org's intent is genuine. The problem is that I've seen similar games being played out too many times before.

greenie_beans 2y ago
bookshop.org is basically a website for ingram distribution, the primary distribution company for indies. all the bookselling members get a commission for all sales on the platform, so it is very beneficial to the participating bookstores. bookshop.org exists separately from a lot of stores ecommerce website, though the bigger stores don't always participate in bookshop because they fear it will take away from their ecommerce sales. it's more aimed towards smaller stores who can't afford the time or money for a good ecommerce store, but also, i'm assuming trying to compete with amazon seo which would ultimately support indies since they split commissions from all the sales. > While independent bookstores may benefit from an increased online presence in the short term, I'm left asking the question: what is preventing Bookshop.org from capturing their customers, decreasing commissions, and even blocking those links to the store's actual independent online presence in the medium to long term? trust. it was started by somebody whose career demonstrated they are committed to supporting indies and literature. if you've been around booksellers, then you know how important this trust is. the booksellers are also very loud and opinionated so the company will know if they are making wrong decisions. the stores feel like they have somewhat of an ownership to bookshop (though not legally). you might say, "well trust can be broken" and you're right but we're talking about a niche industry with a limited market size, and no potential for world domination/incentive to break the trust. i know it's crazy but some folks still do business like that. the platform's success depends on the relationship with the booksellers, so what happens when they break that trust? before this, indies didn't have much helping them online except custom ecommerce stores that some stores can't afford and are generally not good software imo. bookshop.org is hardly competing with amazon here. there is no huge market capture they're after. they're just trying to help bookstores stay alive and compete. source, i made ecommerce software for independent bookstores: https://bookhead.net https://bookhead.net (edits for pre-coffee typos)

AstroJetson 2y ago

I use Bookfinder.com on a regular basis to find DRM free dead tree books. It searches across all of the big new/used book vendors and also the smaller “thrift store / Goodwill” book dealers (even eBay buy now) Sorts in New and Used groupings then by price. But like the software “Quality, Cost, Delivery” triangle, the delivery is 99% by USPS media mail, so it’s 5-7 business days to get the book. It would be interesting to see Bookshop to hookup with Bookfinder to give them another search method.

desolved 2y ago
Bookfinder is owned by Amazon.
- mdaniel 2y ago
  It took some clicking but in its footer is "BookFinder.com is an independent subsidiary of AbeBooks" and then https://www.abebooks.com/about/#:~:text=we're%20a%20subsidiary%20of%20amazon.com https://www.abebooks.com/about/#:~:text=we're%20a%20subsidia...
  - AstroJetson 2y ago
    Now I'm sad. It reminds me of this chart that shows that 10 companies own a huge swath of the major brands. https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/11dvxaj/a_chart_showing_what_companies_own_which_brands/#lightbox https://www.reddit.com/r/Damnthatsinteresting/comments/11dvx...

mkbkn 2y ago

Opened the website from India and it says blocked for you. Thanks, bye bye.

crossroadsguy 2y ago
Same experience and then you are being downvoted for sounding disappointed. As if it’s justified in some convoluted way - this sort of geoblock.

NoboruWataya 2y ago

For anyone interested, https://www.hive.co.uk/books https://www.hive.co.uk/books is a UK alternative and has offered ebooks for a while.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
onetokeoverthe 2y ago
They've managed to update their website so well it's unviewable

wccrawford 2y ago

> But now, Hunter says there’s “no reason on Earth to give a billionaire your $9.99 for your e-book,” Except, many of the books I want to read are self-published by small authors, and are only available on Amazon, probably because of how easy it is to self-publish there. I hope they can fix that, because it's my current biggest complaint about owning a Kobo reader.

WolfeReader 2y ago
Making an ePub is easy as pie - look into PanDoc for one trivial-to-use CLI application which can do the job using Word docs or Markdown as a source and emit ePub, PDF, and other ebook formats. The idea that Amazon is essential to self-published ebooks is blatantly false, and is encouraged by Amazon to lock authors into the Kindle ecosystem.
- onetokeoverthe 2y ago
  Calibre is another free easy to use epub making software
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- noman-land 2y ago
  Is there something for converting pdf to epub?
  - WolfeReader 2y ago
    Yes, but: 1. Calibre can do the job for the case of mostly-text PDFs, while keeping images too of course. I haven't done this, but a quick search reveals that it can give inconsistent results (mostly depending on the source PDF of course). 2. If the "text" of the PDF is actually just an image, consider OCR instead, or treat it as a digital comic as I'll cover next: 3. For digital comics, a different program called CBConvert is what you want. I actually don't think ePubs are the best format for comics, and usually convert to CBZ format instead; CBConvert has this all covered.

Ekaros 2y ago

So what are the guarantees that I keep the material I buy if they ever winddown and what is the timeframe for this. That how many years I have time to get DRM free version? At this point I won't buy digital material unless the platform is extremely established and have proven track record say like Steam or Amazon.

anotherevan 2y ago
None. From their ebook FAQ page - https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks > Do l own the ebooks I purchase outright? > The publishers of our ebooks require that the ebooks you “purchase” from Bookshop.org are only licensed to you. Even DRM-free books are subject to some restrictions and may not be owned outright. However, even in the case of an ebook being removed from Bookshop.org by the publisher, users who purchased the ebook previously will continue to have access to the ebook file. Depending on the circumstances, in the unlikely event an ebook is removed from your library because of a rights issue or otherwise, Bookshop.org will refund the purchase price you paid.

habosa 2y ago

I’ve been waiting for this for so long. I love bookstores and want them to exist but really prefer to read books on an ereader because they don’t take up space and it’s easier for me to read at night. Right now my solution is to buy Kindle books and then make yearly donations to my favorite bookstores (if they accept them) and buy gifts at the bookstore. But that’s not realistic as a plan. This is so close to perfect. Right now to read these I’d need to get an ereader that runs full Android (BOOX, etc) which isn’t what I want. But they say they’re working on a partnership with Kobo, so I’ll wait for that and then finally ditch my Kindle.

foobarchu 2y ago
Good to hear there's a Kobo partnership in the works. I was so excited when I saw this announcement, only to find it was exclusively through an app. Reading books on a phone or tablet is honestly my least favorite reading method. I've always loved that Humble Bundle books are usually either Kobo licenses or drm-free formats that can be side loaded.
- currymj 2y ago
  android e-ink tablets are now a decent user experience and let you read ebooks through the apps. there are many form factors including e-reader like.
wafflemaker 2y ago
Amazon is killing "download and transfer to kindle by USB" in 9 days (on 24th of February, 2025 - that's 2/24/25 for Americans), so you might want to hurry if you want to read your Amazon titles on other readers.
- Dxtros 2y ago
  This really sucks. I do think you can still download books from an older version of kindle for pc. Hopefully they don’t axe this feature as well.
- habosa 2y ago

42772827 2y ago

If this kind of thing interests you, consider libro.fm for drm-free audiobooks

anotherevan 2y ago

I see they are committing the same fraud as Amazon, in that most of the titles are encumbered with digital restrictions management, but the button to 'purchase' says "buy" instead of "lease". From their FAQ page - https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks https://bookshop.org/info/ebooks > Do l own the ebooks I purchase outright? > The publishers of our ebooks require that the ebooks you “purchase” from Bookshop.org are only licensed to you. Even DRM-free books are subject to some restrictions and may not be owned outright. However, even in the case of an ebook being removed from Bookshop.org by the publisher, users who purchased the ebook previously will continue to have access to the ebook file. Depending on the circumstances, in the unlikely event an ebook is removed from your library because of a rights issue or otherwise, Bookshop.org will refund the purchase price you paid.

crossroadsguy 2y ago

Well.. > Sorry, you have been blocked > You are unable to access bookshop.org > You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. I guess a geo block? Wow! Either way I think I’ll pass.