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The sensitive readers please be advised, quite a bit of a rant and angry reactions coming in an overreacting style, please stop here if you are of the sensitive

The sensitive readers please be advised, quite a bit of a rant and angry reactions coming in an overreacting style, please stop here if you are of the sensitive type. The comments are unrelated to this particular product but aimed at the universal approach of the broad topic nowadays. Zero intent of offending anyone specific person is attempted. I am fed up with all these predicting what I want to do. Badly!! Don't guess! Wait, and I will do what I want to do. I do not appreciate it from my wife trying to figure out what I want to say in the middle of my senntence and interrupts before I finish what I am saying, imagine how much I tolerate it from a f computer! I know what I am going to do, you do not! Let me do that already! This level of predicting our asses off everywhere grown to be a f nuisance by now, I cannot simply do and focus on what I want to do because of the many distractions and suggestions and guesses and prediction of me and my actions all the f time are in the way' Wait, and see! At this overly eager level and pushing into everything is a nuisance now! Too many times the acceptance of the - wrong - 'helping suggestion' is in the way too, hijacking that usable elsewhere particular keyboard action, breaking my flow, dragging in the unwanted stupid guess! Recovery of my way of working from incoming and pushy "feature" hiding/colliding my usual actions, forced on me in a "security update" or other bullshit, turning off and recover the working practice already been in place and worked is an unwelcom being in the way too, ruined, now colliding with "smart prediction", not helping. In long term, it is not a definitive help but an around zero sum game. Locally, in specific sittuations, too many times it is a strong negative by the wrong done! Too much problems here and there, accuracy and implementation wise. Forced everywhere. Don't be a smartass, you are just an algorithm not a mind reader! Lay back and listen. If prediction is that smart - being with us since the turn of the millania here and there - then should do my job perfectly and I can go walk outside and collect the money! Until, f off!

gkbrk 2y ago
Is someone forcing you at gunpoint to use AI autocomplete while you code? If you think it's not good, just don't use it.
- mihaaly 2y ago
  [flagged]
- heeton 2y ago
  Right? If you don't like the tool, turn it off. I find autocomplete _exceptionally_ useful. It's right in most of the simple tasks I'm trying to do and speeds me up a lot.
- botanical76 2y ago
  Well, I notice there is a lot of pressure in organizations for individual developers to start making use of these tools. I was already using AI extensively before my company picked up on it, so it doesn't really affect me negatively, but I notice some of my coworkers starting to ask questions like "Do I have to use it?". The status quo seems to imply that you {refuse to accept change,aren't willing to grow,aren't interested in increasing efficiency in workflow} if you don't use AI tools / autocomplete. So while it is unlikely anyone is _forcing_ you to use AI-enabled efficiency boosters, there may be a strong managerial pressure felt to do so, and it may even be offered as an action item in yearly reviews, and therefore strongly linked to compensation / incentives. That is all to say, I understand if people in this group are frustrated with the AI hype train at the moment, even if they can appreciate that these tools do indeed improve efficiency in some places and in some people.
  - pritambarhate 2y ago
    If an employee demonstrates the same level of productivity without using AI, most managers would likely be fine with that approach. However, if a manager observes that several team members are more productive with AI and are achieving business goals more quickly, they will naturally expect everyone to adopt it. Those who refuse to use AI and cannot match the efficiency of their peers may eventually be replaced. While this outcome may be emotionally challenging, economic realities primarily drive these decisions.
    - pipo234 2y ago
      Show me a manager that can realistically gauge productivity first, and I'd be happy to consider having this type of argument. Otherwise, I'll stick to developing software in a small company where my boss trusts me to get the job done at my own pace with whatever tools I chose.
lionkor 2y ago
I find that AI autocomplete, even autocompleting full functions, is capable enough to use. I need to review all my code in detail before pushing, and I need to write unit tests, and I need to "run it once" test it also. It gets it mostly right most of the time, and often times it quite literally suggests what I was about to type. This is mostly in Rust and C#, maybe other languages have more of a hurdle for AI.
- powerhugs 2y ago
  So it can rust now? That's impressive! Last time I tried it had no way of valid rust code beyond hello-world level, constantly producing code that failed the borrow checker.
  - lionkor 2y ago
    I rarely if ever have to worry about the borrow checker, mostly stumbling blocks are move/copy/clone semantics. GitHub Copilot does a good job of generating correct Rust, it just has the usual subtle-but-annihilating-if-not-caught logic bugs, like in all other languages.
    - diggan 2y ago
      > rarely if ever have to worry about the borrow checker mostly stumbling blocks are move/copy/clone semantics I'm don't write Rust for a living, only been experimenting on-and-off with the language, but isn't stumbling on the move/copy/clone semantics literally stumbling on the borrow checker? Or are there issues regarding move/copy/clone that aren't related to the the borrow checker?
      - lionkor 2y ago
        The borrow checker handles references, the fact that everything is move-by-default when it's usually copy-by-defaut (C, C++) or reference-by-default (Java, C#), that's not really a borrow checker feature. Move and copy semantics exist in C++, too, but the defaults are different.
gizmo 2y ago
If you fight the system you're not going to have a good time. For incremental improvements (faster grep, mixed-language syntax highlighting) you get the benefits for free. You don't have to change anything about the way you work. Revolutionary/disruptive technologies are not like that. They demand that the world adapts to them. They demand you change. Almost anywhere you can go by foot you can get faster with a horse. By contrast, a car only drives on flat roads. Cars are inflexible, fragile, unwieldy. A car demands that the world adapts to it. And adapt we did. We paved the world and are better for it. AI tools are amazing. You just have to approach them with a beginner's mindset.
- mihaaly 2y ago
  I am not having a good time, that's true. This is with systems you do not need and not working for you. You can lay down to it, but could also fight it, go around it, not just give up and do what a random self promoted something tries to dictate. True, it is not good now or just yet, and about the amazingness, well, I believe the jury is still out on that.... let's say there are moments when it is. Disruption can f off! I am not a slave to lay down to self serving ideas forced. If ideas not serving humanity and demand change for the sake of it, those are bad ideas then! Down with technological authoritarianism! I am for liberal things mainly anyway. About cars: don't use it inside hight rise buildings if you live in one, or dense cute cities because you will have more problem than help. One can walk, cycle or mass transit, occasional renting, in a big part of life. Cars have their places, not something to wrap humanity around. Thos are just box like objects with four wheels for f's sake! For humans, and not the other way around. All depends on circumstances in the end, naturally.
  - gizmo 2y ago
    You, individually, can make whichever choices you think are best for you. But change is forced on societies. No country can afford to ignore AI. Countries must adapt or get ran over. This is not a moral justification. I don't believe all technological change is for the better. Countries have to brace for impact regardless.
    - 2y ago
oneeyedpigeon 2y ago
I think there may be a good point here, but it's buried in a wall of poorly-written text and inappropriate references to your relationship problems.
- capital_guy 2y ago
  Finding a way to complain about your wife in a comment about an IDE is peak hacker news.
  - brookst 2y ago
    Perhaps, but using a marriage as an analogy for one's preferred IDE doesn't seem like a huge stretch.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
tomw1808 2y ago
Same here, I basically turned off all the auto-complete things everywhere in all the tools I am using, can't stand it. And just before reading your comment, I had a google doc I edited in the other tab and thought, how annoying are these auto suggestions actually. Not helping at all, instead a distraction (to me). For AI coding I'm using Aider as a docker container in the terminal in the IDE and I love it. I can write what I want how I feel the prompt to be necessary and then (and only then) it makes the changes or runs whatever I requested. The IDE runs uninterrupted and without any "smart suggestions". A tool for every job. Sometimes I do a lot in aider, sometimes I don't open it at all, but its all separated where what happens when. But yeah, anyways, while not as strongly feeling as you (probably) towards auto suggesting mid way through my sentence, I at least feel they are more distraction than help to me.
- deagle50 2y ago
  Same. I also configured my editor not to show LSP diag unless I save. Something you can't do in Zed.
- beefnugs 2y ago
  No one has even tried to do it properly: It would have to be constant, highly parallel (locally running:non pay-per-use) simulations going on the background, with feedback from new constantly changing user input and some kind of new reward detection about it converging on something worth suggesting. These loops and simulations have to be happening at multiple levels of abstraction all at the same time, not even sure how that would work or coordinate properly, and thus: never gonna happen
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
dmix 2y ago
Cursor's predictions work for me the vast majority of the time (far more so than Copilot+VSCode). Might be a language/framework dependent though.
tolerance 2y ago
I see that the truth may be that there are too many men on earth who are deprived of cognitive fortitude, starved to think and willing to off-load thought to another... ...Wife...Machine...or what have you.
Falimonda 2y ago
Go hug your wife
- mihaaly 2y ago
  You found the core of the topic, locked on the main meaning instantly and with no error, congratulations for this increadibly sharp insight! :/
linsomniac 2y ago
The wife finishing your sentences is an interesting analogy... My wife and I are usually on the same page about things, so for many topics we can use short-hand or otherwise cut discussions short. It's like in the movie _Hackers_: "It's in the place I put that thing that time." We can say just enough between us that we verify we have a shared state, and if we aren't sure we can verify and adjust. With an LLM, if what I'm starting to say gives it a direction on where I'm going, I'd like to see what it thinks, so if it's largely or entirely right I can just continue on. For example, I just asked ChatGPT o3-mini to complete the code "def download_uri_to_file(", and it came up with the entire function including type annotations, a very reasonable docstring, error handling, and streaming download. In fact, reviewing the code I'm sure it's better than I would have written the first pass through (I probably wouldn't have done the error handling or the streaming (unless I knew up front that I was going to be downloading huge files).
- aidenn0 2y ago
  > The wife finishing your sentences is an interesting analogy... My wife and I are usually on the same page about things, so for many topics we can use short-hand or otherwise cut discussions short. My wife and I are just too different for this to happen. For the first 10 years or so we had the opposite happen a lot (multiple times a day for the first few years), where we thought we were on the same page, but had actually under-communicated. It still happens occasionally, but now we mostly overcommunicate about anything of any importance. Our kids learned pretty quickly that if one parent was helping them with their homework, but had to leave to do something else, that asking the other parent for help was going to confuse them more, since we come at any given problem from a completely different direction.
  - linsomniac 2y ago
    Sure, it's not a given that a conversation with a spouse will be at a "we can complete each-others sentences" level every time, or even most of the time. My wife and I are pretty lucky in that regard. And to bring it full circle, the LLMs aren't going to know where you're going in all cases. I've had REALLY poor luck getting LLMs (admittedly, a year ago) to help me with Python Textual UIs. I don't understand Textual enough, and they both don't seem to understand it well enough, and I think they also have a better understanding of archaic use of Textual (a fast moving target I get the impression). My wife and I literally just had a conversation of shared knowledge: "I want to get back into the habit of doing more exercise. Those things like Pikmin and that other thing." "Yeah, I know what you mean." "You know what I'm talking about?" "Yeah, but I can't remember the name." "You know the one?" "Yeah, the insurance exercise incentive one, something-go or something." "Yeah, that's the one."
qaq 2y ago
Yep it should be configurable let me type at the very least the function name before you start predicting

gkbrk 2y ago

Is someone forcing you at gunpoint to use AI autocomplete while you code? If you think it's not good, just don't use it.

mihaaly 2y ago
[flagged]
heeton 2y ago
Right? If you don't like the tool, turn it off. I find autocomplete _exceptionally_ useful. It's right in most of the simple tasks I'm trying to do and speeds me up a lot.
botanical76 2y ago
Well, I notice there is a lot of pressure in organizations for individual developers to start making use of these tools. I was already using AI extensively before my company picked up on it, so it doesn't really affect me negatively, but I notice some of my coworkers starting to ask questions like "Do I have to use it?". The status quo seems to imply that you {refuse to accept change,aren't willing to grow,aren't interested in increasing efficiency in workflow} if you don't use AI tools / autocomplete. So while it is unlikely anyone is _forcing_ you to use AI-enabled efficiency boosters, there may be a strong managerial pressure felt to do so, and it may even be offered as an action item in yearly reviews, and therefore strongly linked to compensation / incentives. That is all to say, I understand if people in this group are frustrated with the AI hype train at the moment, even if they can appreciate that these tools do indeed improve efficiency in some places and in some people.
- pritambarhate 2y ago
  If an employee demonstrates the same level of productivity without using AI, most managers would likely be fine with that approach. However, if a manager observes that several team members are more productive with AI and are achieving business goals more quickly, they will naturally expect everyone to adopt it. Those who refuse to use AI and cannot match the efficiency of their peers may eventually be replaced. While this outcome may be emotionally challenging, economic realities primarily drive these decisions.
  - pipo234 2y ago
    Show me a manager that can realistically gauge productivity first, and I'd be happy to consider having this type of argument. Otherwise, I'll stick to developing software in a small company where my boss trusts me to get the job done at my own pace with whatever tools I chose.

lionkor 2y ago

I find that AI autocomplete, even autocompleting full functions, is capable enough to use. I need to review all my code in detail before pushing, and I need to write unit tests, and I need to "run it once" test it also. It gets it mostly right most of the time, and often times it quite literally suggests what I was about to type. This is mostly in Rust and C#, maybe other languages have more of a hurdle for AI.

powerhugs 2y ago
So it can rust now? That's impressive! Last time I tried it had no way of valid rust code beyond hello-world level, constantly producing code that failed the borrow checker.
- lionkor 2y ago
  I rarely if ever have to worry about the borrow checker, mostly stumbling blocks are move/copy/clone semantics. GitHub Copilot does a good job of generating correct Rust, it just has the usual subtle-but-annihilating-if-not-caught logic bugs, like in all other languages.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > rarely if ever have to worry about the borrow checker mostly stumbling blocks are move/copy/clone semantics I'm don't write Rust for a living, only been experimenting on-and-off with the language, but isn't stumbling on the move/copy/clone semantics literally stumbling on the borrow checker? Or are there issues regarding move/copy/clone that aren't related to the the borrow checker?
    - lionkor 2y ago
      The borrow checker handles references, the fact that everything is move-by-default when it's usually copy-by-defaut (C, C++) or reference-by-default (Java, C#), that's not really a borrow checker feature. Move and copy semantics exist in C++, too, but the defaults are different.

gizmo 2y ago

If you fight the system you're not going to have a good time. For incremental improvements (faster grep, mixed-language syntax highlighting) you get the benefits for free. You don't have to change anything about the way you work. Revolutionary/disruptive technologies are not like that. They demand that the world adapts to them. They demand you change. Almost anywhere you can go by foot you can get faster with a horse. By contrast, a car only drives on flat roads. Cars are inflexible, fragile, unwieldy. A car demands that the world adapts to it. And adapt we did. We paved the world and are better for it. AI tools are amazing. You just have to approach them with a beginner's mindset.

mihaaly 2y ago
I am not having a good time, that's true. This is with systems you do not need and not working for you. You can lay down to it, but could also fight it, go around it, not just give up and do what a random self promoted something tries to dictate. True, it is not good now or just yet, and about the amazingness, well, I believe the jury is still out on that.... let's say there are moments when it is. Disruption can f off! I am not a slave to lay down to self serving ideas forced. If ideas not serving humanity and demand change for the sake of it, those are bad ideas then! Down with technological authoritarianism! I am for liberal things mainly anyway. About cars: don't use it inside hight rise buildings if you live in one, or dense cute cities because you will have more problem than help. One can walk, cycle or mass transit, occasional renting, in a big part of life. Cars have their places, not something to wrap humanity around. Thos are just box like objects with four wheels for f's sake! For humans, and not the other way around. All depends on circumstances in the end, naturally.
- gizmo 2y ago
  You, individually, can make whichever choices you think are best for you. But change is forced on societies. No country can afford to ignore AI. Countries must adapt or get ran over. This is not a moral justification. I don't believe all technological change is for the better. Countries have to brace for impact regardless.
  - 2y ago

oneeyedpigeon 2y ago

I think there may be a good point here, but it's buried in a wall of poorly-written text and inappropriate references to your relationship problems.

capital_guy 2y ago
Finding a way to complain about your wife in a comment about an IDE is peak hacker news.
- brookst 2y ago
  Perhaps, but using a marriage as an analogy for one's preferred IDE doesn't seem like a huge stretch.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]

tomw1808 2y ago

Same here, I basically turned off all the auto-complete things everywhere in all the tools I am using, can't stand it. And just before reading your comment, I had a google doc I edited in the other tab and thought, how annoying are these auto suggestions actually. Not helping at all, instead a distraction (to me). For AI coding I'm using Aider as a docker container in the terminal in the IDE and I love it. I can write what I want how I feel the prompt to be necessary and then (and only then) it makes the changes or runs whatever I requested. The IDE runs uninterrupted and without any "smart suggestions". A tool for every job. Sometimes I do a lot in aider, sometimes I don't open it at all, but its all separated where what happens when. But yeah, anyways, while not as strongly feeling as you (probably) towards auto suggesting mid way through my sentence, I at least feel they are more distraction than help to me.

deagle50 2y ago
Same. I also configured my editor not to show LSP diag unless I save. Something you can't do in Zed.
beefnugs 2y ago
No one has even tried to do it properly: It would have to be constant, highly parallel (locally running:non pay-per-use) simulations going on the background, with feedback from new constantly changing user input and some kind of new reward detection about it converging on something worth suggesting. These loops and simulations have to be happening at multiple levels of abstraction all at the same time, not even sure how that would work or coordinate properly, and thus: never gonna happen

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

dmix 2y ago

Cursor's predictions work for me the vast majority of the time (far more so than Copilot+VSCode). Might be a language/framework dependent though.

tolerance 2y ago

I see that the truth may be that there are too many men on earth who are deprived of cognitive fortitude, starved to think and willing to off-load thought to another... ...Wife...Machine...or what have you.

Falimonda 2y ago

Go hug your wife

mihaaly 2y ago
You found the core of the topic, locked on the main meaning instantly and with no error, congratulations for this increadibly sharp insight! :/

linsomniac 2y ago

The wife finishing your sentences is an interesting analogy... My wife and I are usually on the same page about things, so for many topics we can use short-hand or otherwise cut discussions short. It's like in the movie _Hackers_: "It's in the place I put that thing that time." We can say just enough between us that we verify we have a shared state, and if we aren't sure we can verify and adjust. With an LLM, if what I'm starting to say gives it a direction on where I'm going, I'd like to see what it thinks, so if it's largely or entirely right I can just continue on. For example, I just asked ChatGPT o3-mini to complete the code "def download_uri_to_file(", and it came up with the entire function including type annotations, a very reasonable docstring, error handling, and streaming download. In fact, reviewing the code I'm sure it's better than I would have written the first pass through (I probably wouldn't have done the error handling or the streaming (unless I knew up front that I was going to be downloading huge files).

aidenn0 2y ago
> The wife finishing your sentences is an interesting analogy... My wife and I are usually on the same page about things, so for many topics we can use short-hand or otherwise cut discussions short. My wife and I are just too different for this to happen. For the first 10 years or so we had the opposite happen a lot (multiple times a day for the first few years), where we thought we were on the same page, but had actually under-communicated. It still happens occasionally, but now we mostly overcommunicate about anything of any importance. Our kids learned pretty quickly that if one parent was helping them with their homework, but had to leave to do something else, that asking the other parent for help was going to confuse them more, since we come at any given problem from a completely different direction.
- linsomniac 2y ago
  Sure, it's not a given that a conversation with a spouse will be at a "we can complete each-others sentences" level every time, or even most of the time. My wife and I are pretty lucky in that regard. And to bring it full circle, the LLMs aren't going to know where you're going in all cases. I've had REALLY poor luck getting LLMs (admittedly, a year ago) to help me with Python Textual UIs. I don't understand Textual enough, and they both don't seem to understand it well enough, and I think they also have a better understanding of archaic use of Textual (a fast moving target I get the impression). My wife and I literally just had a conversation of shared knowledge: "I want to get back into the habit of doing more exercise. Those things like Pikmin and that other thing." "Yeah, I know what you mean." "You know what I'm talking about?" "Yeah, but I can't remember the name." "You know the one?" "Yeah, the insurance exercise incentive one, something-go or something." "Yeah, that's the one."

qaq 2y ago

Yep it should be configurable let me type at the very least the function name before you start predicting