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> How could they do it more efficiently?: Think about how taxes work. The IRS doesn't check every person. You make rules, you perform random audits. IRBs co

> How could they do it more efficiently?: Think about how taxes work. The IRS doesn't check every person. You make rules, you perform random audits. IRBs could easily do the same thing. Set some rules like (simplified) "No IRB necessary if your research doesn't physically touch a person". Researchers will read the rules and skip an IRB if they're in an exempt category. Then just audit at a high enough rate they won't lie.

dr_dshiv 2y ago
There is a huge opportunity in simplifying and automating IRB review. Here in the Netherlands (we call it HREC, human research ethics committee) the process takes months and months to get permission to talk to people. Like, “hey I’ve designed some cool new interaction design, I want to get permission to interview people and do human-centered design iterations.” Yes, you will need to spend dozens of hours on forms and wait months. It cannot be ethical to put these many barriers on talking to humans. And, if you want to do something like an educational game for kids? Or support for the elderly? Or for your students? Well, those are vulnerable populations, so add a few more months. Education research is extremely difficult here (in the USA it is exempt). How to conduct research on the use of AI in a class you are teaching? You can’t get retroactive consent. The system is not reasonable.
mmooss 2y ago
Nobody dies if someone's taxes are wrong. Also, IRBs are not usually about lies, but about scientists not understanding the risks and solutions.
- bpodgursky 2y ago
  > Also, IRBs are not usually about lies, but about scientists not understanding the risks and solutions You have never submitted an IRB.
  - mmooss 2y ago
    Have I? Haven't I? Are you really saying that all these scientists - anyone doing human subject research at least in advanced democracies - are mostly liars trying to defraud people?
    - bpodgursky 2y ago
      Have you submitted an IRB?

dr_dshiv 2y ago

There is a huge opportunity in simplifying and automating IRB review. Here in the Netherlands (we call it HREC, human research ethics committee) the process takes months and months to get permission to talk to people. Like, “hey I’ve designed some cool new interaction design, I want to get permission to interview people and do human-centered design iterations.” Yes, you will need to spend dozens of hours on forms and wait months. It cannot be ethical to put these many barriers on talking to humans. And, if you want to do something like an educational game for kids? Or support for the elderly? Or for your students? Well, those are vulnerable populations, so add a few more months. Education research is extremely difficult here (in the USA it is exempt). How to conduct research on the use of AI in a class you are teaching? You can’t get retroactive consent. The system is not reasonable.

mmooss 2y ago

Nobody dies if someone's taxes are wrong. Also, IRBs are not usually about lies, but about scientists not understanding the risks and solutions.

bpodgursky 2y ago
> Also, IRBs are not usually about lies, but about scientists not understanding the risks and solutions You have never submitted an IRB.
- mmooss 2y ago
  Have I? Haven't I? Are you really saying that all these scientists - anyone doing human subject research at least in advanced democracies - are mostly liars trying to defraud people?
  - bpodgursky 2y ago
    Have you submitted an IRB?