5 ms·

This is such surface level and frankly lazy dismissal of a stance or political view that a huge swath of people hold. It's like your "education" didn't really p

by zo1 2y ago

This is such surface level and frankly lazy dismissal of a stance or political view that a huge swath of people hold. It's like your "education" didn't really prepare you for the fact that other smart or educated people could come to different conclusions, so you use backwards logic to assign a label of uneducated to them just because they came to different conclusions. The arrogance of it is astonishing.

breadwinner 2y ago
It is a fact that there is a difference in level of education. See: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-overwhelmingly-leads-rivals-in-support-from-less-educated-americans https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-overwhelmingly-l... The numbers are undisputable. City voters (who tend to be better educated) overwhelmingly vote one way versus rural voters. We can discuss the reasons for it, but if you don't even agree that this is a fact then I don't know how to discuss it.
- zo1 2y ago
  Or a different take (because we didn't really do the "numbers" and removed all variables and angles to this): - Right-leaning individuals are more likely to want to live in rural areas. Arguably to be left alone by leftist policies. So there is an element of filtering. Additionally, perhaps rural-living individuals are simply less-likely to go to higher education. - People with more education have spent more time being indoctrinated by left-wing education. Let's be honest, schooling is heavily biased towards the left, especially higher-education. - Maybe left-leaning individuals are more likely to send their kids for higher education and degrees. - And the opposite of above. As an example, because I lean "right", I'm less likely to send my kids to an American indoctrination camp to get a degree. You could laugh and judge and claim disbelief, but this is very real and I'm serious. I've literally had smart, well thinking friends from school turn into zombies spouting left-wing talking points after moving to an American college. And not "smart" left-leaning talking points, they're arguably brain-washed and not even using their intelligence to reason their left-leaning views with me. - People with more education are more likely to have been pressured by peer-groups to vote left. See: Cancel culture and intimidation on campuses against right-leaning individuals/speakers. And the opposite of that, left-leaning individuals are pushed out of rural areas due to pressure or push back from locals. - People in urban centers are more likely to be exposed to political ads, campaigns, and things like "DEI" re-education programs in workplaces. - Rural areas are less likely to have or fund arguably weird teaching policies to children at a young age. E.g. the whole drag-queen story hour stuff that the right is upset about. - Left-leaning policies and programs are more likely to get funding by NGOs. So you want to argue numbers, let's argue them. But don't pretend like there aren't any variables that drive those numbers other than "oh uneducated (implying stupid) people vote right" which if you are honest, was exactly the angle you were going for as a dog-whistle to other "educated" or "left-leaning" readers.
  - breadwinner 2y ago
    To summarize your argument, the rural-urban political divide is driven by self-selection and environmental factors, where right-leaning individuals deliberately choose rural areas to avoid left-wing influences, while urban areas reinforce left-wing views through higher education, workplace policies, and cultural pressure. This is a novel argument, one that I have not seen discussed a lot. If this is the truth then great. But I am worried that it is not true. I am worried that what is really happening is that Billionaires are taking advantage of less educated voters by convincing them to vote against their self interests. They do so by shifting their focus to the "values and cultural issues" of the moment. In the past, it was gay marriage and abortion; today, it's trans kids and DEI. Once these issues dominate the conversation, little attention is paid to the real priorities and actions of these billionaires: Cuts to funds that research cancer (the topic of this thread), cuts to Medicaid, food stamps and other welfare programs, cuts to education, cuts to development assistance to the poorest in the world and so on, all to fund tax cuts for the wealthy. If you're interested in this angle here's a book I can recommend: https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-America/dp/080507774X/ref=sr_1_1 https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-Ame...
    - TsiCClawOfLight 2y ago
      If your fear was true, the solution would be simple: the democrats could focus on important issues instead of pushing these (from my point of view, ridiculous and dangerous) cultural issues. Yet they push them vehemently, which caused this response. Why do you think they do that?
      - breadwinner 2y ago
        The current democratic leadership is dumb, in my opinion, because they allow attention to be diverted. They should shift towards the center on the "values and cultural issues" in order to neutralize the conservative advantage, then they will be able to do things that the middleclass (and lower) cares about, such as healthcare and health research, education, consumer protections and so on, and make the Billionaires pay their fair share of taxes.

by zo1 2y ago

breadwinner 2y ago

It is a fact that there is a difference in level of education. See: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-overwhelmingly-leads-rivals-in-support-from-less-educated-americans https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/trump-overwhelmingly-l... The numbers are undisputable. City voters (who tend to be better educated) overwhelmingly vote one way versus rural voters. We can discuss the reasons for it, but if you don't even agree that this is a fact then I don't know how to discuss it.

zo1 2y ago
Or a different take (because we didn't really do the "numbers" and removed all variables and angles to this): - Right-leaning individuals are more likely to want to live in rural areas. Arguably to be left alone by leftist policies. So there is an element of filtering. Additionally, perhaps rural-living individuals are simply less-likely to go to higher education. - People with more education have spent more time being indoctrinated by left-wing education. Let's be honest, schooling is heavily biased towards the left, especially higher-education. - Maybe left-leaning individuals are more likely to send their kids for higher education and degrees. - And the opposite of above. As an example, because I lean "right", I'm less likely to send my kids to an American indoctrination camp to get a degree. You could laugh and judge and claim disbelief, but this is very real and I'm serious. I've literally had smart, well thinking friends from school turn into zombies spouting left-wing talking points after moving to an American college. And not "smart" left-leaning talking points, they're arguably brain-washed and not even using their intelligence to reason their left-leaning views with me. - People with more education are more likely to have been pressured by peer-groups to vote left. See: Cancel culture and intimidation on campuses against right-leaning individuals/speakers. And the opposite of that, left-leaning individuals are pushed out of rural areas due to pressure or push back from locals. - People in urban centers are more likely to be exposed to political ads, campaigns, and things like "DEI" re-education programs in workplaces. - Rural areas are less likely to have or fund arguably weird teaching policies to children at a young age. E.g. the whole drag-queen story hour stuff that the right is upset about. - Left-leaning policies and programs are more likely to get funding by NGOs. So you want to argue numbers, let's argue them. But don't pretend like there aren't any variables that drive those numbers other than "oh uneducated (implying stupid) people vote right" which if you are honest, was exactly the angle you were going for as a dog-whistle to other "educated" or "left-leaning" readers.
- breadwinner 2y ago
  To summarize your argument, the rural-urban political divide is driven by self-selection and environmental factors, where right-leaning individuals deliberately choose rural areas to avoid left-wing influences, while urban areas reinforce left-wing views through higher education, workplace policies, and cultural pressure. This is a novel argument, one that I have not seen discussed a lot. If this is the truth then great. But I am worried that it is not true. I am worried that what is really happening is that Billionaires are taking advantage of less educated voters by convincing them to vote against their self interests. They do so by shifting their focus to the "values and cultural issues" of the moment. In the past, it was gay marriage and abortion; today, it's trans kids and DEI. Once these issues dominate the conversation, little attention is paid to the real priorities and actions of these billionaires: Cuts to funds that research cancer (the topic of this thread), cuts to Medicaid, food stamps and other welfare programs, cuts to education, cuts to development assistance to the poorest in the world and so on, all to fund tax cuts for the wealthy. If you're interested in this angle here's a book I can recommend: https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-America/dp/080507774X/ref=sr_1_1 https://www.amazon.com/Whats-Matter-Kansas-Conservatives-Ame...
  - TsiCClawOfLight 2y ago
    If your fear was true, the solution would be simple: the democrats could focus on important issues instead of pushing these (from my point of view, ridiculous and dangerous) cultural issues. Yet they push them vehemently, which caused this response. Why do you think they do that?
    - breadwinner 2y ago
      The current democratic leadership is dumb, in my opinion, because they allow attention to be diverted. They should shift towards the center on the "values and cultural issues" in order to neutralize the conservative advantage, then they will be able to do things that the middleclass (and lower) cares about, such as healthcare and health research, education, consumer protections and so on, and make the Billionaires pay their fair share of taxes.