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So we should put believers in obviously crackpot theories in charge of physics departments? Would that re-ignite progress in physics? The current system has a

by api 2y ago

So we should put believers in obviously crackpot theories in charge of physics departments? Would that re-ignite progress in physics? The current system has a lot of problems, but it can get much worse. We could end up with everything that's wrong with the current system plus more acceptance of crackpot bullshit. One of the key problems with populism is that while discontent with the establishment is often justified, populists overestimate how easy things are to fix and lack the expertise to judge alternatives. If you look around the world at revolutions, most of the time they result in things getting worse not better. It's much easier to break things than fix them.

hyperdunc 2y ago
You're assuming it's possible to incrementally improve the situation, but maybe a "crackpot" is the best we can manage. If we could put someone truly, brilliantly competent and uncaptured in charge it would have happened already. Sometimes things need to get worse before they can be improved.
WalterBright 2y ago
> So we should put believers in obviously crackpot theories in charge of physics departments? Quantum mechanics didn't really gain ascendancy until the old guard of physicists died off. There are examples in every field. Like hand washing for surgeons. Like digital cameras vs film. Like personal computers vs mainframes. Automobiles vs horses. Democracy vs monarchy. Aircraft carriers vs battleships. I don't know much about RFK. But disruption now and then in conventional ways of doing things is often for the better.
- ToucanLoucan 2y ago
  No physicians needed dying off for handwashing to become mainstream. We just said "Physicians: wash your fuckin hands or you don't get to be physicians anymore." and the problem largely went away. Was there a lot of grumbling, whining, and bitching? Yeah probably. Who cares? > But disruption now and then in conventional ways of doing things is often for the better. "We need some disruption!" shout the people who (believe that they) will not suffer the consequences of disruption.
  - WalterBright 2y ago
    It took a looooong time before handwashing before surgery became standard practice. Decades. Shameful.
    - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
      And which handwashing are we targeting with vaccine-denying, ADHD-non-believing, brain-worm-having, RFK junior? Is he going to wrangle the insurance industry out of practicing medicine without a license, and end their rampant profiteering over literally essential-to-life services? Oh no he's just going to make it illegal to treat illnesses he doesn't think are real, which basically the entire legitimate medical profession disagrees on. Oh, and make sure that the <100 trans athletes in the entire United States can't compete. Awesome, great.
      - WalterBright 2y ago
        I guess we'll see, won't we? I remember when the government confidently told us that eggs were bad, butter was bad, cereal was good. Now eggs are good, butter is good, cereal is bad. Alcohol was bad, then it was good, now it's bad again.
        ToucanLoucan 2y ago
        Every institution is built of people and therefore inherits their faults. The notion of so called “outsiders” is the intellectual equivalent of shrugging your shoulders and giving up because solving human problems is complicated, and let’s be very clear here: what has been done already and is planned by these outsiders to be done is almost universally terrible. If you want to argue that point, you’re not only arguing with every credible expert in a variety of fields, you’re arguing with the outsiders themselves, who advertise the fact that they want to crash the plane into the river because the pilots have grown too out of touch with regular passengers like you and them, whatever the hell that means. It’s a phrase that means nothing and therefore invites the listener to fill in whatever boogeymen they imagine are causing the problems, and while change will come, I’m highly skeptical that much if any will be good. It doesn’t help that as I outline elsewhere, such outsiders are the preferred actors by people who feel they won’t have to deal with the fallout. People on private insurance aren’t afraid of the government cratering Medicare, because they don’t need it. Let’s be super clear about something else; if you’re okay with unqualified idiots fucking about with systems neither they or you understand simply because you won’t lose anything, you are not pro-disruption. You’re just selfish.

by api 2y ago

hyperdunc 2y ago

You're assuming it's possible to incrementally improve the situation, but maybe a "crackpot" is the best we can manage. If we could put someone truly, brilliantly competent and uncaptured in charge it would have happened already. Sometimes things need to get worse before they can be improved.

WalterBright 2y ago

> So we should put believers in obviously crackpot theories in charge of physics departments? Quantum mechanics didn't really gain ascendancy until the old guard of physicists died off. There are examples in every field. Like hand washing for surgeons. Like digital cameras vs film. Like personal computers vs mainframes. Automobiles vs horses. Democracy vs monarchy. Aircraft carriers vs battleships. I don't know much about RFK. But disruption now and then in conventional ways of doing things is often for the better.

ToucanLoucan 2y ago
No physicians needed dying off for handwashing to become mainstream. We just said "Physicians: wash your fuckin hands or you don't get to be physicians anymore." and the problem largely went away. Was there a lot of grumbling, whining, and bitching? Yeah probably. Who cares? > But disruption now and then in conventional ways of doing things is often for the better. "We need some disruption!" shout the people who (believe that they) will not suffer the consequences of disruption.
- WalterBright 2y ago
  It took a looooong time before handwashing before surgery became standard practice. Decades. Shameful.
  - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
    And which handwashing are we targeting with vaccine-denying, ADHD-non-believing, brain-worm-having, RFK junior? Is he going to wrangle the insurance industry out of practicing medicine without a license, and end their rampant profiteering over literally essential-to-life services? Oh no he's just going to make it illegal to treat illnesses he doesn't think are real, which basically the entire legitimate medical profession disagrees on. Oh, and make sure that the <100 trans athletes in the entire United States can't compete. Awesome, great.
    - WalterBright 2y ago
      I guess we'll see, won't we? I remember when the government confidently told us that eggs were bad, butter was bad, cereal was good. Now eggs are good, butter is good, cereal is bad. Alcohol was bad, then it was good, now it's bad again.
      - ToucanLoucan 2y ago
        Every institution is built of people and therefore inherits their faults. The notion of so called “outsiders” is the intellectual equivalent of shrugging your shoulders and giving up because solving human problems is complicated, and let’s be very clear here: what has been done already and is planned by these outsiders to be done is almost universally terrible. If you want to argue that point, you’re not only arguing with every credible expert in a variety of fields, you’re arguing with the outsiders themselves, who advertise the fact that they want to crash the plane into the river because the pilots have grown too out of touch with regular passengers like you and them, whatever the hell that means. It’s a phrase that means nothing and therefore invites the listener to fill in whatever boogeymen they imagine are causing the problems, and while change will come, I’m highly skeptical that much if any will be good. It doesn’t help that as I outline elsewhere, such outsiders are the preferred actors by people who feel they won’t have to deal with the fallout. People on private insurance aren’t afraid of the government cratering Medicare, because they don’t need it. Let’s be super clear about something else; if you’re okay with unqualified idiots fucking about with systems neither they or you understand simply because you won’t lose anything, you are not pro-disruption. You’re just selfish.