6 ms·

They keep claiming to find “fraud” but to me it just looks like spending on things they don’t like.

by isx726552 2y ago

lowkey_ 2y ago
[flagged]
- fncypants 2y ago
  So let's tear everything down good and bad because in an organization at a scale of trillions of dollars, we found $50 million we don't like.
  - lowkey_ 2y ago
    No, I think you're misunderstanding. It looks like in a week, they uncovered over $100M, maybe $200M in fraud (I'm not keeping close track), if you count million-dollar "executive coaching" contracts as fraud (I do). It's most likely telling their friend outside the government "hey, I got some extra budget — you be my 'executive coach,' and we'll split the proceeds." They've found billions in things that we should not be spending our money on while our own people die of drug overdoses, homeless in the street. Things "we don't like" as you say.
    - freejazz 2y ago
      But those are insignificant portions of the federal budget and nothing indicates that the repercussions of the wanton tear-thru of federal agencies is going to be a net-gain for the US.
      - lowkey_ 2y ago
        It will take years to understand the amount of corruption & waste in the federal government. We can agree that these numbers found each day are 'insignificant', but it adds up, and I think we need a hard reset on the size & scope of government. That's what was voted in by the people.
        freejazz 2y ago
        Sorry, but I'm highly skeptical that the political figures who are doing things like unconstitutionally firing inspectors general have any good interest at heart. It's completely contrary to what you are suggesting is going on. There is no good faith effort here to root out corruption. It is an effort to dismantle things that stand in the way of further graft.
    - MyOutfitIsVague 2y ago
      I keep hearing them talking about "fraud", but I've yet to see it substantiated. Where are the reports? Where is the evidence? If we consider Musk to be an unreliable actor (I do), then I need more than his word.
      - ModernMech 2y ago
        > If we consider Musk to be an unreliable actor (I do), Musk said himself yesterday that he expects to be wrong, he has been wrong, and we should all scrutinize him thoroughly. So even he admits he's an unreliable actor.
        lowkey_ 2y ago
        We like to use the principle of charitable interpretation on here, and to be charitable, I think it's really clear he was saying that everybody should expect to be wrong sometimes, has been wrong, and should be scrutinized thoroughly. To label someone as an unreliable actor is different than using our own free will and minds to analyze actions and determine truth.
        ModernMech 2y ago
        Competent people use processes, procedures, and safeguards to minimize human error. It's easy to say "everyone makes mistakes" when you're just a guy, but when you're wielding the powers of the presidency in such an unbalanced and unchecked way, he should be reassuring us how he will assure the trustworthiness of his proclamations going forward. Instead, he gestures vaguely to the human condition. How can you say he's not an unreliable actor? The man has unlimited resources, power, and the best information available to him. He also is in a position of dizzying public trust right now, so really he should be making the utmost effort to be above reproach. "Aw shucks man, what do you expect, I'm just human after all" is not reassuring. And I'm sorry that's not a charitable enough take, but we are far past the time for benefit of the doubt.
      - lowkey_ 2y ago
        Does the tens of millions in "executive coaching" and "strategic communication" contracts really not look like fraud to you, or do you not believe that they're there because it's DOGE reporting it? I think they're moving as fast as possible right now, and it takes a while to investigate & report.
  - toasteros 2y ago
    Not to mention that the radicalisation and terrorism USAID helped prevent from fomenting has likely saved the US many trillions in rebuilding efforts and healthcare.
    - lowkey_ 2y ago
      Can you share details on that? USAID, as far as I can tell, is stoking anti-US sentiment in many places by importing their own cultural values, and that's a known thing State Department officials have commented on. Additionally, to be specific on even worse activity: A few months ago, $9M of USAID went to an organization affiliated with Al Qaeda. The Middle East Forum recently found $164M in USAID grants to radical organizations. Apart from that, we've since found lots of evidence of USAID funding Hamas specifically. $900K was given days before the October 7th attack. There's even pictures of Al Shabaab terrorists inside a USAID tent.
- unethical_ban 2y ago
  So again, not fraud. Just things they don't like. And rather than set up a team to look for it and target the things they don't like, which would be more reasonable and more legal, they decided to shut entire agencies down and break 100% of operations. PS it's a good thing that USAID is not a part of State.
  - lowkey_ 2y ago
    I already addressed the distinction and that I think there's both fraud and things we don't like. On USAID being independent from State: I personally would like our taxpayer-funded dollars, even if some insist on sending them overseas, to at least serve our national interest. I know we set up USAID to counteract Communist aid from the USSR, but what do you think is the ongoing rationale for its independence from State? State is stuck fielding lots of questions from angry nations over USAID activity.
- mmcwilliams 2y ago
  If you have specifics about these fraud cases you're alleging, please add the details. You shouldn't let the people you're accusing of this specific crime go unpunished because you won't make their details public.
  - lowkey_ 2y ago
    It's all over X, including from the official DOGE account. Here's a couple: On the morning of 2/3/25, 20 consulting contracts, mostly focused on "strategic communication" and "executive coaching," were terminated for immediate savings of $26mm. On 2/10/25, the Department of Education terminated 89 contracts worth $881mm. One contractor was paid $1.5mm to "observe mailing and clerical operations at a mail center." These things take months to years, and I don't believe we'll see fraud cases when it's been less than a month since the DOGE operation has started. If it's not fraud, it's grossly negligent with taxpayer money (which is not a crime), but I would bet at least a few of those sketchy contracts were with friends and former colleagues of the government bureaucrats in question.
    - mmcwilliams 2y ago
      So your evidence of fraud includes contracts that were not provably fraudulent and just things you deem unnecessary? And it's your "bet" that these were "sketchy"? Is there a law against friends and former colleagues of government officials getting contracts? I imagine that would create several problems for the current administration.
- basementcat 2y ago
  The link between the "trans opera in Colombia" and USAID seems tenuous at best. https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/02/05/usaid-spending-list-transgender-opera/ https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/02/05/usaid-spending-list-t... Still seems weird to threaten the lives of over 20 million people over this.
  - lowkey_ 2y ago
    ThePinkNews doesn't seem like a fantastic source but I gave it a sincere effort and read through, and yes, it seems tenuously true. None of this is okay to me, as an American, while my own citizens die in the street, homeless, of drug overdoses. This money needs to be spent on our own country or, at the least, intelligently on our national interests.
justinator 2y ago
They're getting the fox out of the hen house by burning the hen house. (also they're foxes too).
giarc 2y ago
Bingo. What's amazing to me is how fast the sentiment can change by his follows (or Trumps followers). Musk simply tweets that "XYZ agency if criminal" and all of a sudden you see tons of comments across the internet that "XYZ agency needs to go" "It's been so corrupt for so long". These agencies have existed forever, but all of a sudden tens of millions of people have these opinions on it? They don't actually know the first thing about how it works, but because some billionaire with a large following says so, they believe it.
- AnimalMuppet 2y ago
  Do all these people have opinions on it? Or is most of that support astroturf?
- ModernMech 2y ago
  A lot of these are bots.
  - giarc 2y ago
    100%, however, you see interviews with real life supporters and they have already printed shirts that espouse this new view and when you hear them talk about it, they talk with so much conviction that you think this would be a long held belief. Musk could say "the sky is green" and millions of people would support it.

They keep claiming to find “fraud” but to me it just looks like spending on things they don’t like.

lowkey_ 2y ago

[flagged]

fncypants 2y ago
So let's tear everything down good and bad because in an organization at a scale of trillions of dollars, we found $50 million we don't like.
- lowkey_ 2y ago
  No, I think you're misunderstanding. It looks like in a week, they uncovered over $100M, maybe $200M in fraud (I'm not keeping close track), if you count million-dollar "executive coaching" contracts as fraud (I do). It's most likely telling their friend outside the government "hey, I got some extra budget — you be my 'executive coach,' and we'll split the proceeds." They've found billions in things that we should not be spending our money on while our own people die of drug overdoses, homeless in the street. Things "we don't like" as you say.
  - freejazz 2y ago
    But those are insignificant portions of the federal budget and nothing indicates that the repercussions of the wanton tear-thru of federal agencies is going to be a net-gain for the US.
    - lowkey_ 2y ago
      It will take years to understand the amount of corruption & waste in the federal government. We can agree that these numbers found each day are 'insignificant', but it adds up, and I think we need a hard reset on the size & scope of government. That's what was voted in by the people.
      - freejazz 2y ago
        Sorry, but I'm highly skeptical that the political figures who are doing things like unconstitutionally firing inspectors general have any good interest at heart. It's completely contrary to what you are suggesting is going on. There is no good faith effort here to root out corruption. It is an effort to dismantle things that stand in the way of further graft.
  - MyOutfitIsVague 2y ago
    I keep hearing them talking about "fraud", but I've yet to see it substantiated. Where are the reports? Where is the evidence? If we consider Musk to be an unreliable actor (I do), then I need more than his word.
    - ModernMech 2y ago
      > If we consider Musk to be an unreliable actor (I do), Musk said himself yesterday that he expects to be wrong, he has been wrong, and we should all scrutinize him thoroughly. So even he admits he's an unreliable actor.
      - lowkey_ 2y ago
        We like to use the principle of charitable interpretation on here, and to be charitable, I think it's really clear he was saying that everybody should expect to be wrong sometimes, has been wrong, and should be scrutinized thoroughly. To label someone as an unreliable actor is different than using our own free will and minds to analyze actions and determine truth.
        ModernMech 2y ago
        Competent people use processes, procedures, and safeguards to minimize human error. It's easy to say "everyone makes mistakes" when you're just a guy, but when you're wielding the powers of the presidency in such an unbalanced and unchecked way, he should be reassuring us how he will assure the trustworthiness of his proclamations going forward. Instead, he gestures vaguely to the human condition. How can you say he's not an unreliable actor? The man has unlimited resources, power, and the best information available to him. He also is in a position of dizzying public trust right now, so really he should be making the utmost effort to be above reproach. "Aw shucks man, what do you expect, I'm just human after all" is not reassuring. And I'm sorry that's not a charitable enough take, but we are far past the time for benefit of the doubt.
    - lowkey_ 2y ago
      Does the tens of millions in "executive coaching" and "strategic communication" contracts really not look like fraud to you, or do you not believe that they're there because it's DOGE reporting it? I think they're moving as fast as possible right now, and it takes a while to investigate & report.
- toasteros 2y ago
  Not to mention that the radicalisation and terrorism USAID helped prevent from fomenting has likely saved the US many trillions in rebuilding efforts and healthcare.
  - lowkey_ 2y ago
    Can you share details on that? USAID, as far as I can tell, is stoking anti-US sentiment in many places by importing their own cultural values, and that's a known thing State Department officials have commented on. Additionally, to be specific on even worse activity: A few months ago, $9M of USAID went to an organization affiliated with Al Qaeda. The Middle East Forum recently found $164M in USAID grants to radical organizations. Apart from that, we've since found lots of evidence of USAID funding Hamas specifically. $900K was given days before the October 7th attack. There's even pictures of Al Shabaab terrorists inside a USAID tent.
unethical_ban 2y ago
So again, not fraud. Just things they don't like. And rather than set up a team to look for it and target the things they don't like, which would be more reasonable and more legal, they decided to shut entire agencies down and break 100% of operations. PS it's a good thing that USAID is not a part of State.
- lowkey_ 2y ago
  I already addressed the distinction and that I think there's both fraud and things we don't like. On USAID being independent from State: I personally would like our taxpayer-funded dollars, even if some insist on sending them overseas, to at least serve our national interest. I know we set up USAID to counteract Communist aid from the USSR, but what do you think is the ongoing rationale for its independence from State? State is stuck fielding lots of questions from angry nations over USAID activity.
mmcwilliams 2y ago
If you have specifics about these fraud cases you're alleging, please add the details. You shouldn't let the people you're accusing of this specific crime go unpunished because you won't make their details public.
- lowkey_ 2y ago
  It's all over X, including from the official DOGE account. Here's a couple: On the morning of 2/3/25, 20 consulting contracts, mostly focused on "strategic communication" and "executive coaching," were terminated for immediate savings of $26mm. On 2/10/25, the Department of Education terminated 89 contracts worth $881mm. One contractor was paid $1.5mm to "observe mailing and clerical operations at a mail center." These things take months to years, and I don't believe we'll see fraud cases when it's been less than a month since the DOGE operation has started. If it's not fraud, it's grossly negligent with taxpayer money (which is not a crime), but I would bet at least a few of those sketchy contracts were with friends and former colleagues of the government bureaucrats in question.
  - mmcwilliams 2y ago
    So your evidence of fraud includes contracts that were not provably fraudulent and just things you deem unnecessary? And it's your "bet" that these were "sketchy"? Is there a law against friends and former colleagues of government officials getting contracts? I imagine that would create several problems for the current administration.
basementcat 2y ago
The link between the "trans opera in Colombia" and USAID seems tenuous at best. https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/02/05/usaid-spending-list-transgender-opera/ https://www.thepinknews.com/2025/02/05/usaid-spending-list-t... Still seems weird to threaten the lives of over 20 million people over this.
- lowkey_ 2y ago
  ThePinkNews doesn't seem like a fantastic source but I gave it a sincere effort and read through, and yes, it seems tenuously true. None of this is okay to me, as an American, while my own citizens die in the street, homeless, of drug overdoses. This money needs to be spent on our own country or, at the least, intelligently on our national interests.

justinator 2y ago

They're getting the fox out of the hen house by burning the hen house. (also they're foxes too).

giarc 2y ago

Bingo. What's amazing to me is how fast the sentiment can change by his follows (or Trumps followers). Musk simply tweets that "XYZ agency if criminal" and all of a sudden you see tons of comments across the internet that "XYZ agency needs to go" "It's been so corrupt for so long". These agencies have existed forever, but all of a sudden tens of millions of people have these opinions on it? They don't actually know the first thing about how it works, but because some billionaire with a large following says so, they believe it.

AnimalMuppet 2y ago
Do all these people have opinions on it? Or is most of that support astroturf?
ModernMech 2y ago
A lot of these are bots.
- giarc 2y ago
  100%, however, you see interviews with real life supporters and they have already printed shirts that espouse this new view and when you hear them talk about it, they talk with so much conviction that you think this would be a long held belief. Musk could say "the sky is green" and millions of people would support it.