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This seems to be the classic way in which management types destroy technical companies. Same thing happened a decade back in electronics companies in Japan (Son

This seems to be the classic way in which management types destroy technical companies. Same thing happened a decade back in electronics companies in Japan (Sony comes to mind). Technical competence is generally very hard to judge and often even harder replace. It's not surprising that the same management types are salivating at the thought of replacing people with AI.

m463 2y ago
I kind of wonder if the endgame for all of this is one-product-per-company. The company comes into being to make widget x, and never cares / is able to make another product again. I mean, that's kind of how it all happens anyway. The people who stick through things and make the thing go away anyway. the ip is then acquired.
- mikepurvis 2y ago
  That seems like the current model in tech, to the point that companies are eventually renamed for their only product (RIM -> BlackBerry, Sun -> JAVA, dotCloud -> Docker), but there are also a few Asian megacorps that have their fingers in seemingly everything, think of Yamaha and Mitsubishi.
  - wilsynet 2y ago
    I do not recall Sun being renamed into “Java”. It was acquired by Oracle as Sun Microsystems.
    - pnp 2y ago
      Correct, I recall the stock ticker symbol was renamed to JAVA, but not the company.
    - mikepurvis 2y ago
      Yes I should have clarified that that was stock ticker (or found another actual example).
    - devchix 2y ago
      Sun changed its stock ticker from SUNW to JAVA. It never mattered for a dying company. Solaris packages were named SUNWxxxx, and was never renamed.
  - achenet 2y ago
    to my knowledge, Sun never actually made money off of Java, their main source of revenue was always selling hardware (indeed, one of the reasons Oracle bought them out was because Oracle was one of the biggest consumers of Sun's hardware).
alexey-salmin 2y ago
I don't know, the Renault Logan (and the B platform in general) was extremely good from the engineering standpoint. Cheap, reliable, easy to maintain, easy to fix. The technical competence in building gasoline cars was definitely there. They missed the electric wave sure, but as with any innovations the more competent you are in the previous wave of technology the harder it is to switch to the new one. But it's a different kind of problem.
- teleforce 2y ago
  > The technical competence in building gasoline cars was definitely there I'm not sure about your statement here after the wet timing belt inside engine debacle for many European cars engines including Renault that's still existed until today. It's a total disregards of the laws on material physics and chemistry [1], [2]. [1] Wet Belt in Oil Engines: Who Approved This and Why Is It Still Being Made [video]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SASSFjIt5I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SASSFjIt5I [2] Why So Many People Hate Wet Timing Belts: https://www.theautopian.com/why-so-many-people-hate-wet-timing-belts/comment-page-1/ https://www.theautopian.com/why-so-many-people-hate-wet-timi...
  - consp 2y ago
    While all true people also do not service their cars and these must be serviced on a regular interval with non standard components. Still a stupid design though which should never have been out into production. Glad my car has a chain, even had one in the past with a wonky guide which made lots of noise but worked until the end without issues (write-off was not engine related but purely economical, expensive tires brakes etc).
  - hammock 2y ago
    The wet timing belt reduces fuel consumption by about 1% so you can thank efficiency requirements for that.
- Gud 2y ago
  >They missed the electric wave sure, but as with any innovations the more competent you are in the previous wave of technology the harder it is to switch to the new one. But it's a different kind of problem. I disagree with this statement. The greatest engineer, scientist and inventor of all time, Stanford Ovshinsky, absolutely had no problem excelling in any field he put his mind to.
Mistletoe 2y ago
Wouldn’t you say this is what the current ruling party of the government is doing to the USA? Seems eerily the same to me.
ty6853 2y ago
Ghosn was trained as an engineer at École des Mines de Paris after a humble background in the 3rd world including continual sickness from unsanitary waterwater. He worked from the bottom up in R&D at Michelin and did the impossible turning it around during hyperinflation period in Brazil. By all estimations he's a genius with as good of chops as anyone could ask for his responsibilities, with a unique set of citizenship, connections, and multilingualism to go with it. Even his escape from Japan was just stunningly executed and the perfect selection of professionals with technical competence to pull it off.
- germinalphrase 2y ago
  “Even his escape from Japan was just stunningly executed and the perfect selection of professionals with technical competence to pull it off.” I’m only generally aware of the series of events here. Any good write ups?
  - 7thpower 2y ago
    https://www.wsj.com/articles/carlos-ghosn-escape-japan-private-jet-box-hidden-11659733392 https://www.wsj.com/articles/carlos-ghosn-escape-japan-priva... There is a series on Apple as well.
    - monkeydust 2y ago
      Can highly recommend the Apple series, was a great documentary.
    - hengheng 2y ago
      MotorTrend's "The InEVitable" podcast has an episode with the WSJ guy that is a lot longer and while less information-dense, it is more colorful and still gets the story across pretty comprehensively. https://pca.st/episode/20821dad-77e6-4e04-a97c-969661953c77 https://pca.st/episode/20821dad-77e6-4e04-a97c-969661953c77
  - rwmj 2y ago
    There's a good BBC documentary if you're able to find it. The original source was: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000xw3j https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000xw3j
makeitdouble 2y ago
Could you expend on the parrallel you see with Sony ? I was under the impression it mostly failed because of how bad it was at software, and the strategy tax hitting them heavily as their ecosystem was penalized by that weakness, so I'd be glad to hear a different take.
unyttigfjelltol 2y ago
> Technical competence is generally very hard to judge At an end-user level it always was easy to judge that Honda was at the top for technical competence. The same it true for judging the bottom rung. You can judge by favoring high quality products, or by disfavoring businesses that try to sell you on sizzle and "fun". It's all the same.

m463 2y ago

I kind of wonder if the endgame for all of this is one-product-per-company. The company comes into being to make widget x, and never cares / is able to make another product again. I mean, that's kind of how it all happens anyway. The people who stick through things and make the thing go away anyway. the ip is then acquired.

mikepurvis 2y ago
That seems like the current model in tech, to the point that companies are eventually renamed for their only product (RIM -> BlackBerry, Sun -> JAVA, dotCloud -> Docker), but there are also a few Asian megacorps that have their fingers in seemingly everything, think of Yamaha and Mitsubishi.
- wilsynet 2y ago
  I do not recall Sun being renamed into “Java”. It was acquired by Oracle as Sun Microsystems.
  - pnp 2y ago
    Correct, I recall the stock ticker symbol was renamed to JAVA, but not the company.
  - mikepurvis 2y ago
    Yes I should have clarified that that was stock ticker (or found another actual example).
  - devchix 2y ago
    Sun changed its stock ticker from SUNW to JAVA. It never mattered for a dying company. Solaris packages were named SUNWxxxx, and was never renamed.
- achenet 2y ago
  to my knowledge, Sun never actually made money off of Java, their main source of revenue was always selling hardware (indeed, one of the reasons Oracle bought them out was because Oracle was one of the biggest consumers of Sun's hardware).

alexey-salmin 2y ago

I don't know, the Renault Logan (and the B platform in general) was extremely good from the engineering standpoint. Cheap, reliable, easy to maintain, easy to fix. The technical competence in building gasoline cars was definitely there. They missed the electric wave sure, but as with any innovations the more competent you are in the previous wave of technology the harder it is to switch to the new one. But it's a different kind of problem.

teleforce 2y ago
> The technical competence in building gasoline cars was definitely there I'm not sure about your statement here after the wet timing belt inside engine debacle for many European cars engines including Renault that's still existed until today. It's a total disregards of the laws on material physics and chemistry [1], [2]. [1] Wet Belt in Oil Engines: Who Approved This and Why Is It Still Being Made [video]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SASSFjIt5I https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0SASSFjIt5I [2] Why So Many People Hate Wet Timing Belts: https://www.theautopian.com/why-so-many-people-hate-wet-timing-belts/comment-page-1/ https://www.theautopian.com/why-so-many-people-hate-wet-timi...
- consp 2y ago
  While all true people also do not service their cars and these must be serviced on a regular interval with non standard components. Still a stupid design though which should never have been out into production. Glad my car has a chain, even had one in the past with a wonky guide which made lots of noise but worked until the end without issues (write-off was not engine related but purely economical, expensive tires brakes etc).
- hammock 2y ago
  The wet timing belt reduces fuel consumption by about 1% so you can thank efficiency requirements for that.
Gud 2y ago
>They missed the electric wave sure, but as with any innovations the more competent you are in the previous wave of technology the harder it is to switch to the new one. But it's a different kind of problem. I disagree with this statement. The greatest engineer, scientist and inventor of all time, Stanford Ovshinsky, absolutely had no problem excelling in any field he put his mind to.

Mistletoe 2y ago

Wouldn’t you say this is what the current ruling party of the government is doing to the USA? Seems eerily the same to me.

ty6853 2y ago

Ghosn was trained as an engineer at École des Mines de Paris after a humble background in the 3rd world including continual sickness from unsanitary waterwater. He worked from the bottom up in R&D at Michelin and did the impossible turning it around during hyperinflation period in Brazil. By all estimations he's a genius with as good of chops as anyone could ask for his responsibilities, with a unique set of citizenship, connections, and multilingualism to go with it. Even his escape from Japan was just stunningly executed and the perfect selection of professionals with technical competence to pull it off.

germinalphrase 2y ago
“Even his escape from Japan was just stunningly executed and the perfect selection of professionals with technical competence to pull it off.” I’m only generally aware of the series of events here. Any good write ups?
- 7thpower 2y ago
  https://www.wsj.com/articles/carlos-ghosn-escape-japan-private-jet-box-hidden-11659733392 https://www.wsj.com/articles/carlos-ghosn-escape-japan-priva... There is a series on Apple as well.
  - monkeydust 2y ago
    Can highly recommend the Apple series, was a great documentary.
  - hengheng 2y ago
    MotorTrend's "The InEVitable" podcast has an episode with the WSJ guy that is a lot longer and while less information-dense, it is more colorful and still gets the story across pretty comprehensively. https://pca.st/episode/20821dad-77e6-4e04-a97c-969661953c77 https://pca.st/episode/20821dad-77e6-4e04-a97c-969661953c77
- rwmj 2y ago
  There's a good BBC documentary if you're able to find it. The original source was: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000xw3j https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m000xw3j

makeitdouble 2y ago

Could you expend on the parrallel you see with Sony ? I was under the impression it mostly failed because of how bad it was at software, and the strategy tax hitting them heavily as their ecosystem was penalized by that weakness, so I'd be glad to hear a different take.

unyttigfjelltol 2y ago

> Technical competence is generally very hard to judge At an end-user level it always was easy to judge that Honda was at the top for technical competence. The same it true for judging the bottom rung. You can judge by favoring high quality products, or by disfavoring businesses that try to sell you on sizzle and "fun". It's all the same.