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We live in a rural location, so we have redundant 5G/Starlink. It's getting pretty reasonable these days, with download speeds reaching 0.5 gbit/sec per link,

We live in a rural location, so we have redundant 5G/Starlink. It's getting pretty reasonable these days, with download speeds reaching 0.5 gbit/sec per link, and latency is acceptable at ~20ms. The main challenge is the upload speed; pretty much all the ISPs allocate much more spectrum for download rather than upload. If we could improve one thing with future wireless tech, I think upload would be a great candidate.

sidewndr46 2y ago
I can pretty much guarantee you that your 5G connection has more bandwidth for upload than my residential ISP does
- ai-christianson 2y ago
  Yeah? We're getting 30-50 mbit/sec per connection on a good day.
  - repeekad 2y ago
    In downtown Columbus Ohio the only internet provider (Spectrum) maxes out at maybe 5 mbps up (down 50-100x that), it's not just a rural issue, non-competitive ISPs even in urban cities want you to pay for business accounts to get any kind of upload whatsoever
    - fweimer 2y ago
      Is it really a technical capacity issue, or just market segmentation? Usually, it's possible to get so-called business service with higher upload bandwidth, even at residential addresses.
      - jacobgkau 2y ago
        That's exactly what he said, they want you to pay for business accounts.
        repeekad 2y ago
        Yup, I’m saying it’s not a rural issue to have bad upload, often it’s just a way to charge more money even in a major US city (particularly one with limited ISP competition) In San Francisco monkeybrains is the best ISP I’ve ever used to date; symmetric up/down, great ping and cheaper than any other provider
        simoncion 2y ago
        I am also a quite happy Monkeybrains customer, and have been for a couple of years now. For any folks who are using cable internet, or shitty DSL, I strongly recommend checking to see if Monkeybrains serves your home. If you have symmetric fiber, or are happy with Webpass, then it might not make sense to switch.
        iamcalledrob 2y ago
        As a (former) long-time monkeybrains customer, it's a mixed bag. For a casual home internet connection they're great. For WFH where you need something reliable, perhaps not. If you're lucky and get pointed at a good site, you can get great speeds. I was getting 500Mbps up/down. If you're unlucky, you might only get 50Mbps. There's always some jitter and packet loss on the connection too -- much more than a wired connection. Online gaming was not great. Congestion control algos suffered because of this. I would see TCP throughput drop by 90% over long distances because congestion control isn't tuned for these network conditions. And in the rain my connection would drop out every few minutes. But for $35/month it was great value, and the whole company is friendly and easy to deal with.
        sidewndr46 2y ago
        were they using WiFi as the wireless layer?
    - zamadatix 2y ago
      Check out Breezeline (previously WOW), they cover nearly the entirety of Columbus and many of the surrounding areas. The minimum plan has 10 up but you can get ~50 up with the standard consumer plans. Bit shitty to deal with though, even for an ISP.
  - nightpool 2y ago
    Yes, many residential broadband ISPs top out at 1/10th that.
  - squeaky-clean 2y ago
    I'm in NYC, Spectrum is my ISP. 500mb/s down, 10mb/s up. I used to live in a building with symmetric 1G fiber from Verizon, but they don't serve my building.
    - ai-christianson 2y ago
      Maybe once download gets so fast people have a hard time figuring out what to do with it (2-10g+) they'll start finally increasing upload.
      - sidewndr46 2y ago
        That seems unlikely, as it is just more bandwidth they'd have to pay for.
    - sidewndr46 2y ago
      I'm at 300/10. Actual upload is a bit higher I think, it seems they try and account for IPv4 header overhead or something. If I pay some absolutely bananas monthly fee I can get 30mbps up advertised. That isn't really fast enough for me to notice the difference and the service is unreliable anyways.
toast0 2y ago
> The main challenge is the upload speed; pretty much all the ISPs allocate much more spectrum for download rather than upload. For 5G, a lot of the spectrum is statically split into downstream and upstream in equal bandwidth. But equal radio bandwidth doesn't mean equal data rates. Downstream speeds are typically higher because multiplexing happens at one fixed point, instead of over multiple, potentially moving transmitters.
orev 2y ago
You identified the problem in your statement: “the ISPs allocate…”. The provider gets to choose this, and if more bandwidth is available from a newer technology, they’re incentive is to allocate it to downloads so they can advertise faster speeds. It’s not a technology issue.
throwaway2037 2y ago
What do you need faster upload speeds for?

sidewndr46 2y ago

I can pretty much guarantee you that your 5G connection has more bandwidth for upload than my residential ISP does

ai-christianson 2y ago
Yeah? We're getting 30-50 mbit/sec per connection on a good day.
- repeekad 2y ago
  In downtown Columbus Ohio the only internet provider (Spectrum) maxes out at maybe 5 mbps up (down 50-100x that), it's not just a rural issue, non-competitive ISPs even in urban cities want you to pay for business accounts to get any kind of upload whatsoever
  - fweimer 2y ago
    Is it really a technical capacity issue, or just market segmentation? Usually, it's possible to get so-called business service with higher upload bandwidth, even at residential addresses.
    - jacobgkau 2y ago
      That's exactly what he said, they want you to pay for business accounts.
      - repeekad 2y ago
        Yup, I’m saying it’s not a rural issue to have bad upload, often it’s just a way to charge more money even in a major US city (particularly one with limited ISP competition) In San Francisco monkeybrains is the best ISP I’ve ever used to date; symmetric up/down, great ping and cheaper than any other provider
        simoncion 2y ago
        I am also a quite happy Monkeybrains customer, and have been for a couple of years now. For any folks who are using cable internet, or shitty DSL, I strongly recommend checking to see if Monkeybrains serves your home. If you have symmetric fiber, or are happy with Webpass, then it might not make sense to switch.
        iamcalledrob 2y ago
        As a (former) long-time monkeybrains customer, it's a mixed bag. For a casual home internet connection they're great. For WFH where you need something reliable, perhaps not. If you're lucky and get pointed at a good site, you can get great speeds. I was getting 500Mbps up/down. If you're unlucky, you might only get 50Mbps. There's always some jitter and packet loss on the connection too -- much more than a wired connection. Online gaming was not great. Congestion control algos suffered because of this. I would see TCP throughput drop by 90% over long distances because congestion control isn't tuned for these network conditions. And in the rain my connection would drop out every few minutes. But for $35/month it was great value, and the whole company is friendly and easy to deal with.
        sidewndr46 2y ago
        were they using WiFi as the wireless layer?
  - zamadatix 2y ago
    Check out Breezeline (previously WOW), they cover nearly the entirety of Columbus and many of the surrounding areas. The minimum plan has 10 up but you can get ~50 up with the standard consumer plans. Bit shitty to deal with though, even for an ISP.
- nightpool 2y ago
  Yes, many residential broadband ISPs top out at 1/10th that.
- squeaky-clean 2y ago
  I'm in NYC, Spectrum is my ISP. 500mb/s down, 10mb/s up. I used to live in a building with symmetric 1G fiber from Verizon, but they don't serve my building.
  - ai-christianson 2y ago
    Maybe once download gets so fast people have a hard time figuring out what to do with it (2-10g+) they'll start finally increasing upload.
    - sidewndr46 2y ago
      That seems unlikely, as it is just more bandwidth they'd have to pay for.
  - sidewndr46 2y ago
    I'm at 300/10. Actual upload is a bit higher I think, it seems they try and account for IPv4 header overhead or something. If I pay some absolutely bananas monthly fee I can get 30mbps up advertised. That isn't really fast enough for me to notice the difference and the service is unreliable anyways.

toast0 2y ago

> The main challenge is the upload speed; pretty much all the ISPs allocate much more spectrum for download rather than upload. For 5G, a lot of the spectrum is statically split into downstream and upstream in equal bandwidth. But equal radio bandwidth doesn't mean equal data rates. Downstream speeds are typically higher because multiplexing happens at one fixed point, instead of over multiple, potentially moving transmitters.

orev 2y ago

You identified the problem in your statement: “the ISPs allocate…”. The provider gets to choose this, and if more bandwidth is available from a newer technology, they’re incentive is to allocate it to downloads so they can advertise faster speeds. It’s not a technology issue.

throwaway2037 2y ago

What do you need faster upload speeds for?