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Tesla sales dropped 60% in Germany
- matheussampaio 2y agoI really don’t understand the flagging rules. Is anyone able to explain why this post was flagged?
- cloverich 2y agoIts based on the discussion it generates. If it generates heated discussions with little thoughtfulness or curiosity, it gets flagged and removed. Its effectively the opposite of how Facebook / Reddit / similar clickbait platforms work, and one of the key reasons we don't get as much low quality garbage comments here.
- johnnyanmac 2y agocloverich described the theory. In practice, if enough people loosely band together to flag, they can mark an entire story as flagged. As of late, almost every topic related to Elon Musk became flagged, so I wouldn't be shocked if there's a more dedicated brigade for this (as well as a mix of the usual "I don't want politics in Hacker News" crowd).
- superflow 2y ago[flagged]
- jimkleiber 2y agoI wonder if shareholders will eventually want him out
- adastra22 2y agoThere are no fundamentals justifying the insane valuation of Tesla. Without the Elon myth (real or imagined) of future returns, the stock price would lose 80-90% of its value. Shareholders are incentivized to not speak up, for now. If the company became unprofitable to the point of possible bankruptcy, that's a different story.
- colechristensen 2y agoThe issue is that Tesla actually _could_ dominate the American market and several others. They have some quality issues and a big personality issue but if they ditched those and had an iconoclast who wasn't ... an autistic Nazi... at the helm Tesla could be Apple. They have a great product that is hampered by some failures (the personality of their leader, the failure of self-driving, the sizable minority of lemons they put on the sales floor). But like, Tesla almost has the best car available on the market anywhere. Almost. They could wipe the floor of any of the existing incumbents. Could.
- adastra22 2y agoDoesn't matter to the point at hand. Tesla has a bigger market cap than every other automaker _combined_. Tesla is bigger than the entire auto industry. There is some justification for that number, based on the theory that Tesla is an energy and AI company with a side hustle in automobiles. But that is pure conjecture that only receives market support because Elon is at the helm.
- mcv 2y agoAny smart shareholder will have sold their share by now. I'd expect all remaining shareholders to have truly bought into the Elon myth.
- semi-extrinsic 2y agoAs a counterpoint, there are several sophisticated investors and large funds holding substantial Tesla positions. I guess their hypothesis is that meme stocks will meme, markets can stay irrational longer than you can afford to stay on the fence.
- zurfer 2y agoSophisticated investors might think they can sell quickly enough if the tide turns.
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- Developerx 2y ago[dead]
- sschueller 2y ago[flagged]
- watwut 2y agoThat is kind of the same. Meddling in politics right now involves "paying money to European far right".
- quchen 2y agoIt certainly adds to it, especially here in Germany. However, the number of times I heard comments like »I don’t want to worry about my car not starting if Musk starts throwing a tantrum« has been quite constant the last couple of months if not years – news about Starlink not working, support layoffs at Twitter, such things. And the target audience of Tesla is people who hear and care about such things.
- superflow 2y ago[dead]
- fabian2k 2y agoIt was clearly something that looked a lot like a Nazi salute. And it was twice, this wasn't just an unfortunate camera angle. And Elon has been commenting (positively) on tweets by various extreme right figures for a long time now, so there is additional information here as well.
- adastra22 2y agoIt was either a nazi salute, or a "Heil, Ceasar!" In the context of a presidential inauguration, either one is very, very bad.
- graftak 2y agoThe “Roman salute” you’re referring to never existed in history up until the 19th century when popular media introduced it. It’s fiction, it resonated with Italian facist which is why they started using it.
- Semaphor 2y agoI was wondering how this compares, the car lobby ADAC [0] has Jan '24 22,474 vs Jan '25 34,498 for new EVs (so 50% more), Jan '24 was apparently a particularly bad month as the subsidies for EVs had just ended, looking at some other stats, Jan '24 was the worst EV month since Jan '23. Tesla fell from 14% of the market to 4% [1] [0]: https://www.adac.de/news/neuzulassungen-kba/ https://www.adac.de/news/neuzulassungen-kba/ [1]: https://www.focus.de/auto/elektroauto/starker-start-ins-neue-jahr-im-januar-2025-wurden-in-deutschland-so-viele-elektroautos-zugelassen-wie-nie-zuvor_id_260698734.html https://www.focus.de/auto/elektroauto/starker-start-ins-neue...
- riffraff 2y agoSales had been reportedly tanking (sic) even before the end of the year. https://insideevs.com/news/745119/tesla-sales-europe-2024/ https://insideevs.com/news/745119/tesla-sales-europe-2024/
- CyMonk 2y agoNew car sales in Germany have generally declined significantly since last summer. The last thing Germans worry about is a new car.
- Semaphor 2y agoAlas, the statistics say the opposite.
- gspr 2y ago> New car sales in Germany have generally declined significantly since last summer. The last thing Germans worry about is a new car. The 2023 to 2024 year-on-year decline was 1% [1]. Compared to that, a 60% drop for a single brand is catastrophic. (And wonderful in this case) [1] https://www.best-selling-cars.com/germany/2024-full-year-germany-car-market-overview-and-analysis/ https://www.best-selling-cars.com/germany/2024-full-year-ger...
- fhd2 2y agoFrom TFA: "German road traffic agency KBA’s website on Wednesday showed the number of newly registered Tesla cars fell 59.5% to 1,277 in January, while the overall German market was down just 2.8% at slightly more than 207,000 vehicles during the month." Didn't verify it personally, but if you claim something contrary to TFA, a source would be nice.
- scarab92 2y agoSales of EVs have fallen much further than sales of all vehicles in general. Electricity prices.
- CyMonk 2y agoHere are charts from the mentioned KBA site which show the decline from 300.000 in 06/2024 down to 208.00 in 01/2025. https://www.kba.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Fahrzeugzulassungen/2025/pm01_2025_n_12_24_grafik_jahresverlauf.gif?__blob=normal https://www.kba.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Fahrzeugzula... https://www.kba.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Fahrzeugzulassungen/2025/pm05_2025_n_01_25_grafik_jahresverlauf.gif?__blob=normal https://www.kba.de/DE/Presse/Pressemitteilungen/Fahrzeugzula...
- alex_duf 2y agoThat AI generated image at the top is so unnecessary... A regular photo of a Tesla would do the job just as well.
- rednafi 2y agoDid he really expect the continent that was ravaged by WWII to be thrilled about his gesture and rally around to buy his Swasticars?
- jaimex2 2y agoNot sure what Reuters's intent was but these news stories will make it go back up. Suddenly anyone who supports Musk will buy one when they otherwise wouldn't.
- beardyw 2y agoI have never "supported" anyone in that way in my whole (long) life. I just don't understand it. Is there some explanation for it?
- amenhotep 2y agoI don't think it actually happens as much as these people like to say it does. It's just a convenient way to externally blame and berate those they don't like for things they were going to do anyway. But to the extent that it does happen, it seems explicable with reference to the behaviour of children when told not to do something. Some evidently never grew out of it.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoI'm not sure how effective it is, but I have heard of the concept of "rage spending". buying a product with the intent to enrage social or political opponents. The idea makes sense, but these days people make it so blatant. So the merchant can make it feel more like a grift than simply trying to appeal to an audience.
- colechristensen 2y agoThe target market of Trumpist populism and Tesla's premium electric vehicles are in different tax brackets.
- erinnh 2y agoI doubt there's any kind of intent there. But, honestly, if that is the end result; Trump supporters buying more electric cars, Id call that a win.
- InDubioProRubio 2y agoHis new "target" audience is mostly the prussian-rump-state that has been left behind in east germany, that yearns for a new "empire" similar to the russians. Funny though, the time of empires is the one where "hyper-trade" dependant germany was the most run-down it ever was. You do not jump other countries in a dark alley with 1 month of gasoline for tanks if things are going so well.
- alkonaut 2y agoA lot of this was down to the huge sales of the Model Y in Europe in the past year or two with subsidized loans at rock bottom rates. The lowest I saw was 0%. Obviously today that's no longer the case. Also the MY is due to be replaced so a lot of would be Tesla buyers are holding off. But I don't doubt that some part, perhaps even a large part, of this is down to personality. So it'll be interesting to see what happens when the new Model Y is launched and how much they retake of this lost market share. My guess is, some, but not nearly all of it. People held their noses and bought the Tesla when they were at a huge (interest rate) discount. Tesla obviously can't give people long sub 1% loans and make a profit in 2025. For me personally (in Europe, looking for a new EV this year) I'd be happy to pay more north of a $10k premium to not have the car that says Tesla on it.
- andrewinardeer 2y ago[flagged]
- jajko 2y agoNot at all, its all self-inflicted. He keeps insulting most of Europe, continuously, like a rich spoiled kid for literally no gain on his part, ego is too big to have any control over it and his mental instabilities don't help. If you can respect such a man and even give him your money thats you, but many folks don't. Colleagues who own Tesla now regret buying it, literally putting those meme stickers 'I bought this car before elon went fascist'. Right leaning all of them. Its not about left-leaning, no need to spin it that way, he managed to insult literally whole spectrum of people in Europe apart from neonazis. Not many of those buying teslas as one can imagine.
- mytailorisrich 2y agoI don't remember him insulting Europe, what are you referring to?
- scarab92 2y ago
- standeven 2y agoSomewhat anecdotal, but I follow the used Tesla Model 3 market fairly closely in western Canada and have seen the number of listings triple over the last month or so.
- semi-extrinsic 2y agoIf I open the local Facebook Marketplace equivalent, it is now full of people making bumper stickers saying "I bought this before Elon went crazy".
- mjamesaustin 2y agoMaybe Germans don't want to buy cars from the company whose CEO did not one but two Nazi salutes on national television. As a Tesla owner myself, it makes me very uncomfortable to think my car is remotely associated with a hate group. I wouldn't buy one today nor do I recommend it to others.
- benrutter 2y agoKnow way of testing this (that I know at least), but I'm curious about how much the effect is Musk's politics and how much is other EVs catching up. Politically, I'm fairly left wing, concerned about democracy and climate change. Elon Musk's politics is easily enough to make sure I'd never purchase anything he's associated with. That said, for buying an EV, tradional car manufacturers have mostly caught up with where Tesla is now, as a European buyer, I could get a high quality EV much cheaper from longer established brands with more effecient supply chains. Seems pretty tricky to try and untangle those two effects.
- pikseladam 2y agoNew model will be coming out. Most are waiting for it.
- spiderfarmer 2y agoNo they’re not. Tesla will need to fire Elon if they want to repair their reputation.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoSadly, TSLA is more or less a meme stock built up by Hype. No one wants to pull out and lose the hype.
- magicalhippo 2y agoIn Norway it was down almost 40% compared to same month last year[1]. However monthly Tesla numbers has historically had a high month-to-month variance, and they had very good numbers at the end of last year[2]. So at least here I wouldn't say we're seeing a trend just yet. [1]: https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/tesla-salget-stupte-i-norge-i-januar-1.17255093 https://www.nrk.no/nyheter/tesla-salget-stupte-i-norge-i-jan... [2]: https://www.tek.no/nyheter/nyhet/i/4BV7LE/bilsalget-ny-tesla-dominans-i-november https://www.tek.no/nyheter/nyhet/i/4BV7LE/bilsalget-ny-tesla...
- name_vfinal_v2 2y agoWhat people seem to miss in this discussion: Many Germans get EV cars as company cars because of how they're taxed: Say the car is worth 60k and you're allowed to use it for non-work purposes, then you need to tax 1% of the list price per month (i.e. 600 is added as fictional income to your monthly pay, and you need to pay the tax on that) IF you drive a gas / diesel car. For EVs that is 0.25%, so there was a huge incentive for people to get Teslas. That law is changing though: The taxation applies only to cars up to €60k list price (most Teslas exceed that by now, even Model 3s with some extras), and as electricity prices have been soaring, charging the EV got really expensive. Adding to that, interest rates have been increasing in 2022 for the first time in a long time. This means that leasing rates and financing rates skyrocketed. So as another commenter wrote: Buying a new car is one of the least worries of Germans at the moment.
- peoplefromibiza 2y ago[dead]
- jacquesm 2y agoGuess what the ascii code for 'X' is. One try.
- sethammons 2y agoFeels conspiracy theory level, but maybe a dog whistle. Hmm
- Thiez 2y agoI'm sure we can conclude Elon is a fascist based on his words and actions alone, without resorting to numerology.
- jacquesm 2y agoI agree. But: I wonder how long ago his fascination with all things Nazi started and the whole 'X' thing goes back a long, long time. So this may not be a recent thing at all.
- defrost 2y agoHis maternal grandfather was an ardent supporter of nazi ideals, boosted the Protocols of Zion, and moved to the aparthied South African regime as they had "the right idea". His paternal grandfather was less so but leaned that way and was foreign minister in the SA Government defending aparthied. Elon's maternal grandfather died when he was young but apparently his maternal grandmother had a great influence on him and was likely a fellow traveller living in a house that celebrated all things Nazi.
- ocius 2y agoI have anecdotal evidence that at least a part of this is due to Musk's behaviour. My father is in charge of the car fleet for a large German company, and they have decided to exclude Tesla from their fleet because of Musk's recent behaviour. At the same time, they have also decided to go full electric for the entire fleet (no hybrid either).
- spiderfarmer 2y agoMost people in The Netherlands too think of Musk the same as Trump. They really, really don’t like the both of them.
- EasyMark 2y agoWouldn't it be anecdotal information and not evidence? I always consider those two words together as an oxymoron. I have an educated guess keeping up with European news that it's highly likely Musk's recent attempts to control German politics would be highly frowned upon by anyone not from the AfD party.
- johnnyanmac 2y agoevidence is used to support a statement. Information is a more broad term. Information can be evidence, but not always. Meanwhile, almost all evidence can be categorized as information.
- bobongo 2y ago> Musk's recent behaviour For those who might not be up to date on that, parent refers to Musk's nazi salute: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/R_6dVlz6mug https://www.youtube.com/shorts/R_6dVlz6mug
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- zapperdulchen 2y agoI can't tell for the parent commenter but German society is more concerned about him embracing the extremist right in Germany and offering a lot support for free to them in the current campaign.
- insane_dreamer 2y agoWhy was this flagged? It's relevant, and there's no big flame war in the discussions. Musk-bots working as expected?