7 ms·

> Their profit margin is 5.5%. 5.5% of what, dmm? https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/unitedhealth-unh-2024-record-revenue/737477/ https://www.healthcaredive.

> Their profit margin is 5.5%. 5.5% of what, dmm? https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/unitedhealth-unh-2024-record-revenue/737477/ https://www.healthcaredive.com/news/unitedhealth-unh-2024-re... > the Minnesota healthcare behemoth reported adjusted profit of $25.7 billion — an all-time record.

skyyler 2y ago
Is there any legal way to remove the leeches from the system? Obviously murdering healthcare CEOs and shareholders isn’t legal, and I wouldn’t endorse that method. Are there alternatives?
- vkou 2y ago
  Yes, the legal way is to change the laws. Unfortunately that is rolling a boulder uphill, and even if you fire all of Congress (on this issue, you'd need to get rid of all the Republicans and at least a third of the Democrats) and replace it with people who give a crap, all it takes is one executive to stop enforcing the rules.
  - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
    > you'd need to get rid of all the Republicans and at least a third of the Democrats And then most voters: “71% of U.S. adults consider the quality of healthcare they receive to be excellent or good, and 65% say the same of their own coverage. There has been little deviation in these readings since 2001” [1]. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/654044/view-healthcare-quality-declines-year-low.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/654044/view-healthcare-quality-...
    - skyyler 2y ago
      "19% -- say they are satisfied with its cost" From your link.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      Quality of healthcare and quality of insurance experience are not the same statistic. I'm very satisfied with my healthcare. I am not satisfied with my insurer.
      - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        > Quality of healthcare and quality of insurance experience are not the same statistic The question was specifically about “the quality of healthcare you receive/your healthcare coverage.” Coverage doesn’t cover the insurer on cost, but it does on claims denials. Most Americans like their coverage. If you want to reform the system, you have to start with that fact and convince them they aren’t risking what they have unnecessarily.
        ceejayoz 2y ago
        > the quality of healthcare you receive/your healthcare coverage But that's two different things. If you put me in a giant mansion with a $100k/month mortgage, I will be quite satisified with my house. Very briefly.
        skyyler 2y ago
        >Most Americans like their coverage Even more Americans (81%!) are unhappy with the cost of their coverage.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        Sure. We want the same system but cheaper. That’s an important difference for someone advocating to scrap the system to make it cheaper. We want those lower costs. But loss aversion marries us to the good enough.
        skyyler 2y ago
        The same system but cheaper is not the same system. There are leeches that need to be removed from the system.
dmm 2y ago
[flagged]
- ceejayoz 2y ago
  That's why you vertically integrate. https://www.truthrx.org/post/the-health-insurer-will-see-you-now-how-unitedhealth-is-keeping-more-profits-as-your-doctor https://www.truthrx.org/post/the-health-insurer-will-see-you... > In 2017, 23% of the company’s insurance revenue went toward the provider unit called Optum Health, and 69% went toward OptumRx. So far in 2022, 38% of that money went toward Optum Health, while 56% was captured by OptumRx.
  - gruez 2y ago
    See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43017065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43017065 Even if you look at the company as a whole, there aren't much profits to go around.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      > there aren't much profits to go around I think we have different definitions of "much". It's #9 in the world for revenue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_r... #1 on the list is Walmart, which has a similarly low on-paper 2-3% profit margin, but I don't think anyone is deluded into thinking the company, the Waltons, or its investors are barely scraping by. #2 is Amazon. Again, low profit margin. Again, plenty of profit.
      - gruez 2y ago
        Nobody is arguing that you can't buy a luxury yacht or whatever with UNH's profits. It's pretty obvious from the original comment[1] is the argument is that even if all the profits were plowed back into approving more claims, that it would only only increase the approval rate by 5-6%, which is a totally minor amount. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43016479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43016479
nradov 2y ago
A large fraction of UHG profits come from their Optum subsidiary selling software to other payer and provider organizations. This is separate from the health insurance business. If broken out separately they would be one of the 20 largest US tech companies.

skyyler 2y ago

Is there any legal way to remove the leeches from the system? Obviously murdering healthcare CEOs and shareholders isn’t legal, and I wouldn’t endorse that method. Are there alternatives?

vkou 2y ago
Yes, the legal way is to change the laws. Unfortunately that is rolling a boulder uphill, and even if you fire all of Congress (on this issue, you'd need to get rid of all the Republicans and at least a third of the Democrats) and replace it with people who give a crap, all it takes is one executive to stop enforcing the rules.
- JumpCrisscross 2y ago
  > you'd need to get rid of all the Republicans and at least a third of the Democrats And then most voters: “71% of U.S. adults consider the quality of healthcare they receive to be excellent or good, and 65% say the same of their own coverage. There has been little deviation in these readings since 2001” [1]. [1] https://news.gallup.com/poll/654044/view-healthcare-quality-declines-year-low.aspx https://news.gallup.com/poll/654044/view-healthcare-quality-...
  - skyyler 2y ago
    "19% -- say they are satisfied with its cost" From your link.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    Quality of healthcare and quality of insurance experience are not the same statistic. I'm very satisfied with my healthcare. I am not satisfied with my insurer.
    - JumpCrisscross 2y ago
      > Quality of healthcare and quality of insurance experience are not the same statistic The question was specifically about “the quality of healthcare you receive/your healthcare coverage.” Coverage doesn’t cover the insurer on cost, but it does on claims denials. Most Americans like their coverage. If you want to reform the system, you have to start with that fact and convince them they aren’t risking what they have unnecessarily.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        > the quality of healthcare you receive/your healthcare coverage But that's two different things. If you put me in a giant mansion with a $100k/month mortgage, I will be quite satisified with my house. Very briefly.
      - skyyler 2y ago
        >Most Americans like their coverage Even more Americans (81%!) are unhappy with the cost of their coverage.
        JumpCrisscross 2y ago
        Sure. We want the same system but cheaper. That’s an important difference for someone advocating to scrap the system to make it cheaper. We want those lower costs. But loss aversion marries us to the good enough.
        skyyler 2y ago
        The same system but cheaper is not the same system. There are leeches that need to be removed from the system.

dmm 2y ago

[flagged]

ceejayoz 2y ago
That's why you vertically integrate. https://www.truthrx.org/post/the-health-insurer-will-see-you-now-how-unitedhealth-is-keeping-more-profits-as-your-doctor https://www.truthrx.org/post/the-health-insurer-will-see-you... > In 2017, 23% of the company’s insurance revenue went toward the provider unit called Optum Health, and 69% went toward OptumRx. So far in 2022, 38% of that money went toward Optum Health, while 56% was captured by OptumRx.
- gruez 2y ago
  See: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43017065 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43017065 Even if you look at the company as a whole, there aren't much profits to go around.
  - ceejayoz 2y ago
    > there aren't much profits to go around I think we have different definitions of "much". It's #9 in the world for revenue: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_revenue https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_largest_companies_by_r... #1 on the list is Walmart, which has a similarly low on-paper 2-3% profit margin, but I don't think anyone is deluded into thinking the company, the Waltons, or its investors are barely scraping by. #2 is Amazon. Again, low profit margin. Again, plenty of profit.
    - gruez 2y ago
      Nobody is arguing that you can't buy a luxury yacht or whatever with UNH's profits. It's pretty obvious from the original comment[1] is the argument is that even if all the profits were plowed back into approving more claims, that it would only only increase the approval rate by 5-6%, which is a totally minor amount. [1] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43016479 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43016479

nradov 2y ago

A large fraction of UHG profits come from their Optum subsidiary selling software to other payer and provider organizations. This is separate from the health insurance business. If broken out separately they would be one of the 20 largest US tech companies.