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Precisely, for all the talk of efficiency last few years, how do we even begin to measure the total waste of effort and energy of so many smart people that this

Precisely, for all the talk of efficiency last few years, how do we even begin to measure the total waste of effort and energy of so many smart people that this was? All that effort and stress for effectively nothing, or perhaps even net negative effect.

wordpad25 2y ago
how is it net negative effect? they have Hundreds of millions of ACTIVE users even if it was spun off to be stand alone product without Instagram it would still be worth billions
- hansmayer 2y ago
  DAU is a very one-dimensional and misleading KPI, one that gave us ever-growing, VC-backed unprofitable companies. The Threads is definitely net-negative in the sense of wider impact and not just single-dimensional KPIs. Take as example Uber and AirBnB. Both have had millions of active users and one could argue their service is even useful to a lot of people. It's still quite easy to argue that they are are net-negative, because even by the narrow metric of revenue and profitability, they are not even returning value to their shareholders - they turn a profitable quarter like what, every few years or so? The effects on society such as traffic congestion, real-estate market etc. are also quite visible in many major cities in the western hemisphere these days (and beyond even...). Now specifically for the Threads: as it stands right now, they are not even driving revenue at Meta, in the corpo-speak of their own CFO: “Specifically, as it pertains to monetization, we don’t expect Threads to be a meaningful driver of 2025 revenue at this time,” said CFO Susan Li on the earnings call. “We’ve been just pleased with the growth trajectory and again, are really focused on introducing features that the community finds valuable.” (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/31/metas-threads-app-now-has-275-million-users-zuckerberg-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/31/metas-threads-app-now-has-27...). As for the wider positive effects to the society at large, feel free to point out any. As far as I recall, they launched with the promise of sort of "sanitised" contents being promoted, kind of Pinterest 2.0 if you will, beyond that I am not aware of anything relevant coming out of that platform honestly.
  - isaacremuant 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - hansmayer 2y ago
      Please read more carefully and don't shove your own words down other people's throats, it's rude and un-called for. What zealotry? The only politically-sided arguments in this thread are coming from you. By the way, if you took a few more seconds to read a bit more carefully, you would have noticed I never said they did not provide any value - only that the net negative seems to be outweighing the benefits to the society as a whole, and this is based on hard data, not ideology, mate. This is to make comparison to Threads, which is, unlike these two, not even providing a real-life service to justify it's existence. Plus, please learn: revenue != profits. I won't go down the rabbit hole of discussing the business models of Uber and Airbnb, you obviously haven't understood who carries the actual operating costs of those "businesses" and maybe in your world these are great services, as they come with an implicit ego-boost for all the Karens of this world?
      - isaacremuant 2y ago
        [dead]
    - throwaway2562 2y ago
      Not being able to get your kid to sleep because the upstairs flat is now a weekend party place for tourists is… a non-problem? ‘Wonderful’ convenience for tourists, sure. Writing off reasonable objections as ‘ideological zealotry’ from ‘bad political actors’ is a very weird take. Case in point, I recently backed out of buying a house when I found out the house next door was an Airbnb, and the neighbours were not digging the thoughtless visitors. Is that an ideological preference or a pro-sleep one?
      - isaacremuant 2y ago
        [flagged]
motorest 2y ago
> Precisely, for all the talk of efficiency last few years, how do we even begin to measure the total waste of effort and energy of so many smart people that this was? All that effort and stress for effectively nothing, or perhaps even net negative effect. This comment is perplexing. Reportedly Threads has 130 million monthly active users (and growing) vs. 550 million accessing X (and shrinking). This alone already places Threads as one of the top social media services in the world. It's projected revenue for 2026 is over $10B. What exactly are you talking about?
- hansmayer 2y ago
  See further below please, I wrote just about this kind of tunnel-vision focus on DAU/MAU vs. a more holistic view ;)
  - motorest 2y ago
    If you're talking about this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43010781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43010781 You wrote a wall of text saying and refuting absolutely nothing. The only remotely tangible argument you made was the blurb on “Specifically, as it pertains to monetization, we don’t expect Threads to be a meaningful driver of 2025 revenue at this time,”. Considering Meta reports revenue around $40B and Threads, considering the EU snag, was basically launched last year, this is far from being the failure you are trying to spin it. But if you had any point worth making, and you didn't had an axe to grind, you wouldn't grasped at straws such as the "As for the wider positive effects to the society at large, feel free to point out any."
    - hansmayer 2y ago
      Sure mate, I am definitely the one with an axe to grind here ;) Now prove me stupid and show me and the HN readership how is a product which even it's own management sees as unprofitable for the next three-four quarters, producing any benefits at least to it's shareholders, not even talking about the society. Maybe lean into the argument with a pinch of how the latest Meta "free speech" policies augment it's positive contributions too ;)
geodel 2y ago
If so many people are so smart and still working on these products at Meta then either these product matter as per smart people or they are just ordinary people working for their paychecks.

wordpad25 2y ago

how is it net negative effect? they have Hundreds of millions of ACTIVE users even if it was spun off to be stand alone product without Instagram it would still be worth billions

hansmayer 2y ago
DAU is a very one-dimensional and misleading KPI, one that gave us ever-growing, VC-backed unprofitable companies. The Threads is definitely net-negative in the sense of wider impact and not just single-dimensional KPIs. Take as example Uber and AirBnB. Both have had millions of active users and one could argue their service is even useful to a lot of people. It's still quite easy to argue that they are are net-negative, because even by the narrow metric of revenue and profitability, they are not even returning value to their shareholders - they turn a profitable quarter like what, every few years or so? The effects on society such as traffic congestion, real-estate market etc. are also quite visible in many major cities in the western hemisphere these days (and beyond even...). Now specifically for the Threads: as it stands right now, they are not even driving revenue at Meta, in the corpo-speak of their own CFO: “Specifically, as it pertains to monetization, we don’t expect Threads to be a meaningful driver of 2025 revenue at this time,” said CFO Susan Li on the earnings call. “We’ve been just pleased with the growth trajectory and again, are really focused on introducing features that the community finds valuable.” (https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/31/metas-threads-app-now-has-275-million-users-zuckerberg-says.html https://www.cnbc.com/2024/10/31/metas-threads-app-now-has-27...). As for the wider positive effects to the society at large, feel free to point out any. As far as I recall, they launched with the promise of sort of "sanitised" contents being promoted, kind of Pinterest 2.0 if you will, beyond that I am not aware of anything relevant coming out of that platform honestly.
- isaacremuant 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - hansmayer 2y ago
    Please read more carefully and don't shove your own words down other people's throats, it's rude and un-called for. What zealotry? The only politically-sided arguments in this thread are coming from you. By the way, if you took a few more seconds to read a bit more carefully, you would have noticed I never said they did not provide any value - only that the net negative seems to be outweighing the benefits to the society as a whole, and this is based on hard data, not ideology, mate. This is to make comparison to Threads, which is, unlike these two, not even providing a real-life service to justify it's existence. Plus, please learn: revenue != profits. I won't go down the rabbit hole of discussing the business models of Uber and Airbnb, you obviously haven't understood who carries the actual operating costs of those "businesses" and maybe in your world these are great services, as they come with an implicit ego-boost for all the Karens of this world?
    - isaacremuant 2y ago
      [dead]
  - throwaway2562 2y ago
    Not being able to get your kid to sleep because the upstairs flat is now a weekend party place for tourists is… a non-problem? ‘Wonderful’ convenience for tourists, sure. Writing off reasonable objections as ‘ideological zealotry’ from ‘bad political actors’ is a very weird take. Case in point, I recently backed out of buying a house when I found out the house next door was an Airbnb, and the neighbours were not digging the thoughtless visitors. Is that an ideological preference or a pro-sleep one?
    - isaacremuant 2y ago
      [flagged]

motorest 2y ago

> Precisely, for all the talk of efficiency last few years, how do we even begin to measure the total waste of effort and energy of so many smart people that this was? All that effort and stress for effectively nothing, or perhaps even net negative effect. This comment is perplexing. Reportedly Threads has 130 million monthly active users (and growing) vs. 550 million accessing X (and shrinking). This alone already places Threads as one of the top social media services in the world. It's projected revenue for 2026 is over $10B. What exactly are you talking about?

hansmayer 2y ago
See further below please, I wrote just about this kind of tunnel-vision focus on DAU/MAU vs. a more holistic view ;)
- motorest 2y ago
  If you're talking about this post: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43010781 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43010781 You wrote a wall of text saying and refuting absolutely nothing. The only remotely tangible argument you made was the blurb on “Specifically, as it pertains to monetization, we don’t expect Threads to be a meaningful driver of 2025 revenue at this time,”. Considering Meta reports revenue around $40B and Threads, considering the EU snag, was basically launched last year, this is far from being the failure you are trying to spin it. But if you had any point worth making, and you didn't had an axe to grind, you wouldn't grasped at straws such as the "As for the wider positive effects to the society at large, feel free to point out any."
  - hansmayer 2y ago
    Sure mate, I am definitely the one with an axe to grind here ;) Now prove me stupid and show me and the HN readership how is a product which even it's own management sees as unprofitable for the next three-four quarters, producing any benefits at least to it's shareholders, not even talking about the society. Maybe lean into the argument with a pinch of how the latest Meta "free speech" policies augment it's positive contributions too ;)

geodel 2y ago

If so many people are so smart and still working on these products at Meta then either these product matter as per smart people or they are just ordinary people working for their paychecks.