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Apple has had a Bluetooth software issues in ios 17 and 18 that makes both 15 Pro Max and 16 Pro Max randomly disconnect Bluetooth and all sorts of weird issues

Apple has had a Bluetooth software issues in ios 17 and 18 that makes both 15 Pro Max and 16 Pro Max randomly disconnect Bluetooth and all sorts of weird issues. They waited over a year to finally address it in 18.3, then proceeded to break Bluetooth now where it just all together disconnects over and over. Apple has gone WAY down hill.

SoftTalker 2y ago
Bluetooth has sucked since it was introduced. I've never had a Bluetooth anything that worked well and reliably. We need a total rethink on close-range wireless communication for accessory devices. Preferably something patented with an expensive license so fly-by-night chinese hardware shops can't dump their garbage on the market using that protocol.
- 6SixTy 2y ago
  There is an alternative protocol for wireless communications, only problem is that it's Chinese. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42443750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42443750
  - lesuorac 2y ago
    Aren't like all of the Bluetooths alternative wireless protocols to themselves? It's not like you can use a Bluetooth classic device to connect to Bluetooth low energy. Then there's also like Zigbee and etc; I don't think the world is hurting for wireless protocols. Everybody has their own new standard that'll be able to replace the rest lol.
    - 6SixTy 2y ago
      Difference is that Zigbee etc aren't vying for the same place that StarFlash/Nearlink,etc is for Bluetooth
- jwr 2y ago
  That kind of generalizing isn't helpful and isn't true, either. I am sorry you didn't have a "Bluetooth anything" that worked reliably. I did. In fact, everything that I own that uses Bluetooth works very well. There are two important things about Bluetooth. 1. There are actually two kinds of Bluetooth. The "traditional" mostly connection-oriented Bluetooth and BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy). They share very little with each other, except for the marketing name. BLE works way better in practice. Many people still remember their old headsets that used Bluetooth and that took ages to connect to their phones and associate those with the "Bluetooth experience". 2. Bluetooth is complex. Many manufacturers get it wrong. But the problem is not with Bluetooth. You could invent a different set of protocols, and if they were to do everything that Bluetooth does, they would get very complex as well, and we would have the same problem, except in a less popular and less broadly adopted protocol.
  - ryandrake 2y ago
    > Many manufacturers get it wrong. But the problem is not with Bluetooth. To the end user, this is kind of a distinction without a difference. The end user doesn't care whether it's Bluetooth, The Standard that's bad or Bluetooth, the Implementation. He just knows that when he has to use Bluetooth, he's probably going to have problems. I've worked with BLE implementation developers and I've heard the stack described as a "Layer cake of sorrow." There are major problems with it, and by "It" I mean the entire bag containing the specification, all the various implementations, and the hardware ecosystem. All of these things combined define Bluetooth in people's minds.
    - darkerside 2y ago
      HN is traditionally the kind of place where unpacking that nuance is rewarded, not dismissed
      - ryandrake 2y ago
        Yes, it's useful for technical folks to understand the real difference, but I'm saying the end user doesn't care.
LeoPanthera 2y ago
> Apple has had a Bluetooth software issues in ios 17 and 18 Can you link to some documentation about this bug?
- nothercastle 2y ago
  Idk about docs but my home pod has had terrible static since iOS 18
  - LeoPanthera 2y ago
    As far as I know the HomePod static problem is caused by failing capacitors. It's a hardware problem, not software.
CharlesW 2y ago
> Apple has had a Bluetooth software issues in ios 17 and 18 that makes both 15 Pro Max and 16 Pro Max randomly disconnect Bluetooth and all sorts of weird issues. My iPhone 16 Pro Max Bluetooth has been rock solid with everything I've used it with. Your comment is a good reminder that (1) it's impossible for vendors to test with all possible devices, and (2) at Apple scale there will never not be some customers who experience problems. I recommend reporting it if you haven't — I had glitchy audio with an earlier phone and an older Honda Odyssey's Bluetooth connection, and a few months after my report a subsequent OS update fixed it. (Correlation, not causation, I understand.)
- judge2020 2y ago
  Also note their hardware isn’t 100% good. They tested an old iPhone 16 I had and the NFC sensor out of all thing was broken (I had massive issues with wallet not adding cards). It’s worth going into an Apple Store to have them diagnose it.
  - wrboyce 2y ago
    I’m pretty sure they can run the diagnostics remotely, much more convenient than going into a store!
godelski 2y ago
> Apple has gone WAY down hill. There's just so much low hanging fruit and I don't get it. Worse, it seems to be not just limited to Apple. There's just so many infurating things that I do not understand how they exist. How are you an Apple dev and not pissed off by this stuff? As just a simple example, why is my iPhone, iPad, and Macbook constantly telling me that my airpods have connected? I'm actively listening to music on my phone and have been doing so for the last 30 minutes! Fucking hire me, because I will do the meme. Problem is, I'm not sure when I'd quit because there's so many. Will there ever be the sigh of relief? I know you guys are lurking. There's similar low hanging bullshit annoyances on so much software, so someone that is working on one of these things, please let me know. Google Maps? Search? Calendars? Email? Browsers? iPhones? Androids? AirPods? Pixel Buds? Name your team, and I'm sure I got a complaint for you. If not, I'm sure someone can. You all are killing my productivity.
- manmal 2y ago
  AFAIK the engineers are aware of all this, they just aren’t allowed to work on things that haven’t been prioritized and blessed. Since there is no bug database that can be read outside Apple, we can‘t +1 the most annoying ones. Instead, they rely on manual (semi-automated?) deduplication of the bug reports. Bugs also need to somewhat fit into the „theme of the year“ to get prioritized.
  - walterbell 2y ago
    > Since there is no bug database that can be read outside Apple, we can‘t +1 the most annoying ones. Some Apple Radar bugs are tracked publicly on OpenRadar, but there's no (yet?) voting mechanism: https://openradar.appspot.com/ https://openradar.appspot.com/ https://github.com/timburks/openradar/issues https://github.com/timburks/openradar/issues > Bugs also need to somewhat fit into the „theme of the year“ to get prioritized. User-defined themes for Apple bug annotation could be ranked by annoyance and compared to annual themes.
  - godelski 2y ago
    > the engineers are aware of all this, they just aren’t allowed to work on things that haven’t been prioritized and blessed I accept this answer, but this is honestly a more concerning problem. And I ask, at what point should engineers rebel and be "radical fixers"?
stevenwoo 2y ago
I have that problem with SE and sometimes use apple wired headphones with my SE and lately there’s a cycle of use phone with headphones, put down phone, do something else, come back and unlock phone and somehow it does not think there are headphones connected, I can’t push them in any more either when this happens.
GeekyBear 2y ago
Bluetooth in general is (and has been) broken forever. Look at the comments on Google rewriting their Android Bluetooth stack for the fourth time. > I know the guy that heads up the team that did this work -- he and I spent 2+ years fighting Broadcom's old, god-awful bluetooth code. Our whole team used to play what-if games about replacing the thing while massive code dumps came in from vendors, making the task ever larger. > I had to write a service on the RPI and the only way to reliably connect was to restart bluetooth before every attempt. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26647981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26647981 Apple has finally gotten fed up enough to roll their own Bluetooth/WiFi hardware implementation, which is a huge undertaking. It is said to start shipping this spring. > Apple is switching over to a new Bluetooth and Wi-Fi chip that it designed in-house starting in 2025, reports Bloomberg. The combined Bluetooth and Wi-Fi chip will replace components from Broadcom https://www.macrumors.com/2024/12/12/apple-custom-bluetooth-wifi-chip/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/12/12/apple-custom-bluetooth-...
- Reason077 2y ago
  > "Apple has finally gotten fed up enough to roll their own Bluetooth/WiFi hardware implementation, which is a huge undertaking." This has more to do with do with Apple wishing to pay less for WiFi/Bluetooth chips than wanting to fix bugs. They've gradually been replacing more and more silicon with their own designs for years, and tomorrow we'll likely see the next step: the debut of Apple's 5G radio chip. Personally I have no issues at all with Bluetooth on my iPhone 13. It seems rock solid to me and never disconnects unexpectedly. (I do have some long-standing, annoying but relatively minor, issues with Bluetooth audio on macOS though).
  - GeekyBear 2y ago
    The 2025 iPhone SE is said to be the first shipping device for both the new Bluetooth/WiFi chip and the 5G modem. Cost is certainly a factor, but it doesn't take a lot of searching to find people designing and building devices saying that the existing third party hardware and firmware implementations for Bluetooth are problematic. I don't think the Android/Pixel guys were daydreaming about ditching Broadcom for no reason. I seem to remember discussions the Google Glass people posted here about their own issues with keeping a stable Bluetooth connection with the available third party Bluetooth chipsets.
pjmlp 2y ago
Those of us old enough to remeber Mac OS classic, know Apple hasn't always been top quality, regardless of the quality expectations of their price points.
liveoneggs 2y ago
> Apple has gone WAY down hill. I need a place to rant about my recent apple frustrations. :) I recently got a new laptop - I can airdrop to it once or twice before the notification to accept the airdrop stops showing up until reboot. Just that flow is broken, other notifications continue to work. I got an apple watch for my kid as an "upgrade" - software is a complete mess, connectivity issues abound, it's less reliable than the gizmo watch it replaced. The iPad just got a calculator last year. I am randomly not allowed to delete some photos from my phone. I have no idea what this is about.
r00fus 2y ago
Neither I nor my family have this issue. We're all on iOS18.3 - what kind of issues are you seeing?
Argonaut998 2y ago
I switched to an iPhone for the first time in 2022 with the 14 Pro. I got it on the release day and immediately there was a glaring visual bug when running a timer on their “Dynamic Island” (a huge flop). Ever since then I’ve encountered so many bugs that I can’t believe that this is the famed Apple. It’s the buggiest phone I’ve ever owned. Even now there is a bug on timers when the screen freezes and I can’t scroll through the timers, or start a new one. Constant bugs on their default apps that are SIMPLISTIC (or should be). How is there a bug on timers when it’s existed for 15 years? It also deleted all my of my locally saved notes when I bought a Mac and signed into iCloud. Completely unacceptable. The mail app is so bad that even their anti-competitive design policies can’t salvage it (reading an email on one device will show the email as unread until the app is opened). It’s just embarrassing for the so-called “premium” company.
bigfatkitten 2y ago
Even if Apple does everything right, there will be problems. One major problem with Bluetooth is that the spec is so complex that it is unlikely that any device you try to interoperate with implements the relevant parts correctly. To compound that, most implementations in use came from half arsed SDKs that silicon vendors rushed out the door 5 or 10 years ago, and the devices have no update capability so they are never getting fixed.

SoftTalker 2y ago

Bluetooth has sucked since it was introduced. I've never had a Bluetooth anything that worked well and reliably. We need a total rethink on close-range wireless communication for accessory devices. Preferably something patented with an expensive license so fly-by-night chinese hardware shops can't dump their garbage on the market using that protocol.

6SixTy 2y ago
There is an alternative protocol for wireless communications, only problem is that it's Chinese. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42443750 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42443750
- lesuorac 2y ago
  Aren't like all of the Bluetooths alternative wireless protocols to themselves? It's not like you can use a Bluetooth classic device to connect to Bluetooth low energy. Then there's also like Zigbee and etc; I don't think the world is hurting for wireless protocols. Everybody has their own new standard that'll be able to replace the rest lol.
  - 6SixTy 2y ago
    Difference is that Zigbee etc aren't vying for the same place that StarFlash/Nearlink,etc is for Bluetooth
jwr 2y ago
That kind of generalizing isn't helpful and isn't true, either. I am sorry you didn't have a "Bluetooth anything" that worked reliably. I did. In fact, everything that I own that uses Bluetooth works very well. There are two important things about Bluetooth. 1. There are actually two kinds of Bluetooth. The "traditional" mostly connection-oriented Bluetooth and BLE (Bluetooth Low Energy). They share very little with each other, except for the marketing name. BLE works way better in practice. Many people still remember their old headsets that used Bluetooth and that took ages to connect to their phones and associate those with the "Bluetooth experience". 2. Bluetooth is complex. Many manufacturers get it wrong. But the problem is not with Bluetooth. You could invent a different set of protocols, and if they were to do everything that Bluetooth does, they would get very complex as well, and we would have the same problem, except in a less popular and less broadly adopted protocol.
- ryandrake 2y ago
  > Many manufacturers get it wrong. But the problem is not with Bluetooth. To the end user, this is kind of a distinction without a difference. The end user doesn't care whether it's Bluetooth, The Standard that's bad or Bluetooth, the Implementation. He just knows that when he has to use Bluetooth, he's probably going to have problems. I've worked with BLE implementation developers and I've heard the stack described as a "Layer cake of sorrow." There are major problems with it, and by "It" I mean the entire bag containing the specification, all the various implementations, and the hardware ecosystem. All of these things combined define Bluetooth in people's minds.
  - darkerside 2y ago
    HN is traditionally the kind of place where unpacking that nuance is rewarded, not dismissed
    - ryandrake 2y ago
      Yes, it's useful for technical folks to understand the real difference, but I'm saying the end user doesn't care.

LeoPanthera 2y ago

> Apple has had a Bluetooth software issues in ios 17 and 18 Can you link to some documentation about this bug?

nothercastle 2y ago
Idk about docs but my home pod has had terrible static since iOS 18
- LeoPanthera 2y ago
  As far as I know the HomePod static problem is caused by failing capacitors. It's a hardware problem, not software.

CharlesW 2y ago

> Apple has had a Bluetooth software issues in ios 17 and 18 that makes both 15 Pro Max and 16 Pro Max randomly disconnect Bluetooth and all sorts of weird issues. My iPhone 16 Pro Max Bluetooth has been rock solid with everything I've used it with. Your comment is a good reminder that (1) it's impossible for vendors to test with all possible devices, and (2) at Apple scale there will never not be some customers who experience problems. I recommend reporting it if you haven't — I had glitchy audio with an earlier phone and an older Honda Odyssey's Bluetooth connection, and a few months after my report a subsequent OS update fixed it. (Correlation, not causation, I understand.)

judge2020 2y ago
Also note their hardware isn’t 100% good. They tested an old iPhone 16 I had and the NFC sensor out of all thing was broken (I had massive issues with wallet not adding cards). It’s worth going into an Apple Store to have them diagnose it.
- wrboyce 2y ago
  I’m pretty sure they can run the diagnostics remotely, much more convenient than going into a store!

godelski 2y ago

> Apple has gone WAY down hill. There's just so much low hanging fruit and I don't get it. Worse, it seems to be not just limited to Apple. There's just so many infurating things that I do not understand how they exist. How are you an Apple dev and not pissed off by this stuff? As just a simple example, why is my iPhone, iPad, and Macbook constantly telling me that my airpods have connected? I'm actively listening to music on my phone and have been doing so for the last 30 minutes! Fucking hire me, because I will do the meme. Problem is, I'm not sure when I'd quit because there's so many. Will there ever be the sigh of relief? I know you guys are lurking. There's similar low hanging bullshit annoyances on so much software, so someone that is working on one of these things, please let me know. Google Maps? Search? Calendars? Email? Browsers? iPhones? Androids? AirPods? Pixel Buds? Name your team, and I'm sure I got a complaint for you. If not, I'm sure someone can. You all are killing my productivity.

manmal 2y ago
AFAIK the engineers are aware of all this, they just aren’t allowed to work on things that haven’t been prioritized and blessed. Since there is no bug database that can be read outside Apple, we can‘t +1 the most annoying ones. Instead, they rely on manual (semi-automated?) deduplication of the bug reports. Bugs also need to somewhat fit into the „theme of the year“ to get prioritized.
- walterbell 2y ago
  > Since there is no bug database that can be read outside Apple, we can‘t +1 the most annoying ones. Some Apple Radar bugs are tracked publicly on OpenRadar, but there's no (yet?) voting mechanism: https://openradar.appspot.com/ https://openradar.appspot.com/ https://github.com/timburks/openradar/issues https://github.com/timburks/openradar/issues > Bugs also need to somewhat fit into the „theme of the year“ to get prioritized. User-defined themes for Apple bug annotation could be ranked by annoyance and compared to annual themes.
- godelski 2y ago
  > the engineers are aware of all this, they just aren’t allowed to work on things that haven’t been prioritized and blessed I accept this answer, but this is honestly a more concerning problem. And I ask, at what point should engineers rebel and be "radical fixers"?

stevenwoo 2y ago

I have that problem with SE and sometimes use apple wired headphones with my SE and lately there’s a cycle of use phone with headphones, put down phone, do something else, come back and unlock phone and somehow it does not think there are headphones connected, I can’t push them in any more either when this happens.

GeekyBear 2y ago

Bluetooth in general is (and has been) broken forever. Look at the comments on Google rewriting their Android Bluetooth stack for the fourth time. > I know the guy that heads up the team that did this work -- he and I spent 2+ years fighting Broadcom's old, god-awful bluetooth code. Our whole team used to play what-if games about replacing the thing while massive code dumps came in from vendors, making the task ever larger. > I had to write a service on the RPI and the only way to reliably connect was to restart bluetooth before every attempt. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26647981 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26647981 Apple has finally gotten fed up enough to roll their own Bluetooth/WiFi hardware implementation, which is a huge undertaking. It is said to start shipping this spring. > Apple is switching over to a new Bluetooth and Wi-Fi chip that it designed in-house starting in 2025, reports Bloomberg. The combined Bluetooth and Wi-Fi chip will replace components from Broadcom https://www.macrumors.com/2024/12/12/apple-custom-bluetooth-wifi-chip/ https://www.macrumors.com/2024/12/12/apple-custom-bluetooth-...

Reason077 2y ago
> "Apple has finally gotten fed up enough to roll their own Bluetooth/WiFi hardware implementation, which is a huge undertaking." This has more to do with do with Apple wishing to pay less for WiFi/Bluetooth chips than wanting to fix bugs. They've gradually been replacing more and more silicon with their own designs for years, and tomorrow we'll likely see the next step: the debut of Apple's 5G radio chip. Personally I have no issues at all with Bluetooth on my iPhone 13. It seems rock solid to me and never disconnects unexpectedly. (I do have some long-standing, annoying but relatively minor, issues with Bluetooth audio on macOS though).
- GeekyBear 2y ago
  The 2025 iPhone SE is said to be the first shipping device for both the new Bluetooth/WiFi chip and the 5G modem. Cost is certainly a factor, but it doesn't take a lot of searching to find people designing and building devices saying that the existing third party hardware and firmware implementations for Bluetooth are problematic. I don't think the Android/Pixel guys were daydreaming about ditching Broadcom for no reason. I seem to remember discussions the Google Glass people posted here about their own issues with keeping a stable Bluetooth connection with the available third party Bluetooth chipsets.

pjmlp 2y ago

Those of us old enough to remeber Mac OS classic, know Apple hasn't always been top quality, regardless of the quality expectations of their price points.

liveoneggs 2y ago

> Apple has gone WAY down hill. I need a place to rant about my recent apple frustrations. :) I recently got a new laptop - I can airdrop to it once or twice before the notification to accept the airdrop stops showing up until reboot. Just that flow is broken, other notifications continue to work. I got an apple watch for my kid as an "upgrade" - software is a complete mess, connectivity issues abound, it's less reliable than the gizmo watch it replaced. The iPad just got a calculator last year. I am randomly not allowed to delete some photos from my phone. I have no idea what this is about.

r00fus 2y ago

Neither I nor my family have this issue. We're all on iOS18.3 - what kind of issues are you seeing?

Argonaut998 2y ago

I switched to an iPhone for the first time in 2022 with the 14 Pro. I got it on the release day and immediately there was a glaring visual bug when running a timer on their “Dynamic Island” (a huge flop). Ever since then I’ve encountered so many bugs that I can’t believe that this is the famed Apple. It’s the buggiest phone I’ve ever owned. Even now there is a bug on timers when the screen freezes and I can’t scroll through the timers, or start a new one. Constant bugs on their default apps that are SIMPLISTIC (or should be). How is there a bug on timers when it’s existed for 15 years? It also deleted all my of my locally saved notes when I bought a Mac and signed into iCloud. Completely unacceptable. The mail app is so bad that even their anti-competitive design policies can’t salvage it (reading an email on one device will show the email as unread until the app is opened). It’s just embarrassing for the so-called “premium” company.

bigfatkitten 2y ago

Even if Apple does everything right, there will be problems. One major problem with Bluetooth is that the spec is so complex that it is unlikely that any device you try to interoperate with implements the relevant parts correctly. To compound that, most implementations in use came from half arsed SDKs that silicon vendors rushed out the door 5 or 10 years ago, and the devices have no update capability so they are never getting fixed.