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He single handedly also vindicated one of the most authoritarian regimes - China - in how it slapped Jack Ma as soon as he started entering politics and gaining

by ak_111 2y ago

He single handedly also vindicated one of the most authoritarian regimes - China - in how it slapped Jack Ma as soon as he started entering politics and gaining influence beyond tech entrepreneurship.

lupusreal 2y ago
Nothing vindicates the CCP. They enact laws guaranteeing free speech and human rights, then execute their critics and sell their organs.
- ak_111 2y ago
  That's what I am saying, Musk shenanigan so bad they EVEN vindicated CCP.
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    No. Musk being a shithead does not vindicate a regime that routinely practices mass murder in flagrant violation of their own Constitution (which presumably only exists as a sick joke to them.) Article 35 of their Constitution guarantees free speech, but they murder people who try it. Read the rest of their Constitution while you're at it. Even as a less than serious rhetorical argument, what you said is insane. Get a grip.
    - gotoeleven 2y ago
      No one in this thread knows what vindicated means.
    - globalnode 2y ago
      im not criticizing your opinion but can you point me to some evidence that shows they routinely practice mass murder? im genuinely curious.
      - dttze 2y ago
        He has none most likely, and if he does it’ll be some garbage sourced from Adrian Zenz.
- TheRealNGenius 2y ago
  [dead]
- ks2048 2y ago
  The dreams of Musk/Trump
zfg 2y ago
Clearly Jack Ma should have pledged his commitment to China's core socialist values like Musk did: https://www.mediaite.com/news/elon-musk-signs-letter-pledging-teslas-commitment-to-chinas-core-socialist-values/ https://www.mediaite.com/news/elon-musk-signs-letter-pledgin... And maybe Jack Ma should also have advocated for Taiwan's submission to China like Musk did: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/08/elon-musk-taiwan-china-special-administrative-zone-hong-kong https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/08/elon-musk...
- blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
  China requires that pledge for basically anyone with power or wealth. For example, they added a new law, forcing all of the AI companies in China (like DeepSeek) to uphold socialist values and all that. And TikTok, which they pretend is a separate company from ByteDance based in Singapore, forces US executives to sign a pro CCP pledge as well: https://dailycaller.com/2025/01/14/tiktok-forced-staff-oaths-china-socialist-system-court-documents/ https://dailycaller.com/2025/01/14/tiktok-forced-staff-oaths... This is why tariffs, divestment from China, and divestment of Chinese ownership in American companies or land is important. I also think it is reasonable to treat such pledges made by American residents to a foreign government as treasonous.
  - theGnuMe 2y ago
    Maybe not treasonous but ineligible for whatever position Musk has now...
blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
I am pretty disturbed by how musk is silent on issues concerning China and the CCP. To me it is a big risk that Tesla depends on access to the Chinese market to justify their valuation. Musk clearly will not say anything even slightly negative about the CCP, even though he personally values free speech and other liberal values. So can he really be trusted with control of companies like SpaceX? In fact, I am worried about whether that influence from China extends further. How else do you explain Trump delaying enforcement of the TikTok ban? If anything he should be going a lot harder against China.
- ivewonyoung 2y ago
  > Musk clearly will not say anything even slightly negative about the CCP, even though he personally values free speech and other liberal values. So can he really be trusted with control of companies like SpaceX? He literally posted an AI generated video of Xi in Winnie the Pooh garb. > How else do you explain Trump delaying enforcement of the TikTok ban Because he wanted people to watch his inauguration on TikTok. Plus the intention was always that TikTok would be bought by a US company, not to shut it down entirely given the extensive number of people who rely it on both for income and for entertainment. The issue was that the Supreme Court ruled on the takedown being legal just 2 days before the ban deadline, giving no time for an acquisition. Even Joe Biden refused to enforce the ban on TikTok on the last day of his presidency. > If anything he should be going a lot harder against China Tariffs on China just kicked in.
  - godelski 2y ago
    > He literally posted an AI generated video of Xi in Winnie the Pooh garb. I missed that one, do you have a link?
    - ivewonyoung 2y ago
      https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1815187468691316946?lang=en https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1815187468691316946?lang=en
steve_adams_86 2y ago
I can’t agree that his bad behaviour vindicates other bad behaviour. Checks and balances would be a far better solution than what was done to Ma. We should never consider a state manipulating politics so forcefully to be vindicated because someone seeks to exploit the state. It vindicates the very systems Musk seeks to destroy, showing the USA needs strong and more assertive checks and balances. I think I see what you mean, but it’s dangerous to casually say such a hostile and powerful state’s corruption could ever be vindicated.
- Aeolun 2y ago
  Two different flavors of bad do not make one of them good.
- quantified 2y ago
  What "check" or "balance" do we have for someone not even in government? He is now but he wasn't before the inauguration. Feel free to propose the check or balance if it doesn't already exist.
  - steve_adams_86 2y ago
    You're right, this is a very difficult question to answer, and I don't have a clear answer for myself either. My intuition here is that ANY private citizen acting without authority derived from a due process, or the necessary clearance, is breaking the law and needs to be arrested. Full stop. It bewilders me that Musk wasn't apprehended before he was given special permission to do what he was doing. This was blatant evasion of democracy and potentially harmful to hundreds of millions of people, and harmful to democracy itself. It sets an incredible precedent. The check or balance that appears to be missing, I suppose, is the one where people feel they have the agency or ability at all to identify this type of nefarious behaviour and report it to an entity which can act to rectify it, independently of the president. Trump has enabled this every step of the way, and ultimately, any attempt to fix this likely would have been defused by him as well. I'm not sure what citizens can do, or how exactly the institution should protect itself in the future. But there are many historical parallels to what's happening here, and inaction on citizens' parts is certainly a large component. Too many people are failing to stand in the way. Part of the solution is making it possible to do so. They step aside because the consequences, especially in the USA (with leaders who blatantly seek to purge their opposition), are far too great for an individual to absorb.

by ak_111 2y ago

lupusreal 2y ago

Nothing vindicates the CCP. They enact laws guaranteeing free speech and human rights, then execute their critics and sell their organs.

ak_111 2y ago
That's what I am saying, Musk shenanigan so bad they EVEN vindicated CCP.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  No. Musk being a shithead does not vindicate a regime that routinely practices mass murder in flagrant violation of their own Constitution (which presumably only exists as a sick joke to them.) Article 35 of their Constitution guarantees free speech, but they murder people who try it. Read the rest of their Constitution while you're at it. Even as a less than serious rhetorical argument, what you said is insane. Get a grip.
  - gotoeleven 2y ago
    No one in this thread knows what vindicated means.
  - globalnode 2y ago
    im not criticizing your opinion but can you point me to some evidence that shows they routinely practice mass murder? im genuinely curious.
    - dttze 2y ago
      He has none most likely, and if he does it’ll be some garbage sourced from Adrian Zenz.
TheRealNGenius 2y ago
[dead]
ks2048 2y ago
The dreams of Musk/Trump

zfg 2y ago

Clearly Jack Ma should have pledged his commitment to China's core socialist values like Musk did: https://www.mediaite.com/news/elon-musk-signs-letter-pledging-teslas-commitment-to-chinas-core-socialist-values/ https://www.mediaite.com/news/elon-musk-signs-letter-pledgin... And maybe Jack Ma should also have advocated for Taiwan's submission to China like Musk did: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/08/elon-musk-taiwan-china-special-administrative-zone-hong-kong https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/08/elon-musk...

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago
China requires that pledge for basically anyone with power or wealth. For example, they added a new law, forcing all of the AI companies in China (like DeepSeek) to uphold socialist values and all that. And TikTok, which they pretend is a separate company from ByteDance based in Singapore, forces US executives to sign a pro CCP pledge as well: https://dailycaller.com/2025/01/14/tiktok-forced-staff-oaths-china-socialist-system-court-documents/ https://dailycaller.com/2025/01/14/tiktok-forced-staff-oaths... This is why tariffs, divestment from China, and divestment of Chinese ownership in American companies or land is important. I also think it is reasonable to treat such pledges made by American residents to a foreign government as treasonous.
- theGnuMe 2y ago
  Maybe not treasonous but ineligible for whatever position Musk has now...

blackeyeblitzar 2y ago

I am pretty disturbed by how musk is silent on issues concerning China and the CCP. To me it is a big risk that Tesla depends on access to the Chinese market to justify their valuation. Musk clearly will not say anything even slightly negative about the CCP, even though he personally values free speech and other liberal values. So can he really be trusted with control of companies like SpaceX? In fact, I am worried about whether that influence from China extends further. How else do you explain Trump delaying enforcement of the TikTok ban? If anything he should be going a lot harder against China.

ivewonyoung 2y ago
> Musk clearly will not say anything even slightly negative about the CCP, even though he personally values free speech and other liberal values. So can he really be trusted with control of companies like SpaceX? He literally posted an AI generated video of Xi in Winnie the Pooh garb. > How else do you explain Trump delaying enforcement of the TikTok ban Because he wanted people to watch his inauguration on TikTok. Plus the intention was always that TikTok would be bought by a US company, not to shut it down entirely given the extensive number of people who rely it on both for income and for entertainment. The issue was that the Supreme Court ruled on the takedown being legal just 2 days before the ban deadline, giving no time for an acquisition. Even Joe Biden refused to enforce the ban on TikTok on the last day of his presidency. > If anything he should be going a lot harder against China Tariffs on China just kicked in.
- godelski 2y ago
  > He literally posted an AI generated video of Xi in Winnie the Pooh garb. I missed that one, do you have a link?
  - ivewonyoung 2y ago
    https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1815187468691316946?lang=en https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1815187468691316946?lang=en

steve_adams_86 2y ago

I can’t agree that his bad behaviour vindicates other bad behaviour. Checks and balances would be a far better solution than what was done to Ma. We should never consider a state manipulating politics so forcefully to be vindicated because someone seeks to exploit the state. It vindicates the very systems Musk seeks to destroy, showing the USA needs strong and more assertive checks and balances. I think I see what you mean, but it’s dangerous to casually say such a hostile and powerful state’s corruption could ever be vindicated.

Aeolun 2y ago
Two different flavors of bad do not make one of them good.
quantified 2y ago
What "check" or "balance" do we have for someone not even in government? He is now but he wasn't before the inauguration. Feel free to propose the check or balance if it doesn't already exist.
- steve_adams_86 2y ago
  You're right, this is a very difficult question to answer, and I don't have a clear answer for myself either. My intuition here is that ANY private citizen acting without authority derived from a due process, or the necessary clearance, is breaking the law and needs to be arrested. Full stop. It bewilders me that Musk wasn't apprehended before he was given special permission to do what he was doing. This was blatant evasion of democracy and potentially harmful to hundreds of millions of people, and harmful to democracy itself. It sets an incredible precedent. The check or balance that appears to be missing, I suppose, is the one where people feel they have the agency or ability at all to identify this type of nefarious behaviour and report it to an entity which can act to rectify it, independently of the president. Trump has enabled this every step of the way, and ultimately, any attempt to fix this likely would have been defused by him as well. I'm not sure what citizens can do, or how exactly the institution should protect itself in the future. But there are many historical parallels to what's happening here, and inaction on citizens' parts is certainly a large component. Too many people are failing to stand in the way. Part of the solution is making it possible to do so. They step aside because the consequences, especially in the USA (with leaders who blatantly seek to purge their opposition), are far too great for an individual to absorb.