7 ms·

I think a lot of people have lost trust in doctors. You need to do your own research if you want to get the best treatment (especially when dealing with dentist

I think a lot of people have lost trust in doctors. You need to do your own research if you want to get the best treatment (especially when dealing with dentists). I don't think it's unreasonable to use AI as part of that research.

awkwardpotato 2y ago
[flagged]
- sarchertech 2y ago
  I mean a lot of people have lost trust in doctors, but then again a lot of people have decided that vaccines are created by Bill Gates to mind control them.
  - codr7 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - spoaceman7777 2y ago
      Very true. My guinea worm used to tap out a valid Windows product registration key in morse code on demand. Then Bill went and shut him up :(
      - codr7 2y ago
        You still can't see it, can you? Africa is where all the resources are, we just have to get rid of all the pesky people standing in the way.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- adamredwoods 2y ago
  I think there is a movement against science, largely from the COVID epidemic, but I would like to see numbers. I also believe for science, there are a lot of bad actors out on the internet publishing inaccurate information (ivermectin, flat earth, etc).
sarchertech 2y ago
People are really bad at doing their own research and diagnosing themselves. I'm much more medically knowledgeable than the average person. I'm reasonably smart, and interested in the subject. And then I married a doctor. But even given all of those things, I'm very bad a diagnosing myself. I once swore that I had Giardia. I read dozens of papers and case studies. A close family member of mine was also having some similar GI symptoms at the time, and I even calculated the probability that our symptoms were independent. After that was ruled out from testing and I kept having stomach pain, I did more research. I was pretty sure I had stomach cancer. Eventually I got scoped--gastritis. Took a PPI for a little bit and it cleared right up. Gastritis wasn't even something that I had considered. It showed up in my search results, but because it wasn't a serious problem, I didn't focus on it.
- roflchoppa 2y ago
  My sister had an experience where she went to the doctor multiple times because she had felt something “off” about her health, fatigue, small aches in her chest. Multiple times she was turned down for breast cancer screenings, she was told that she was too young (33 at the time). It was not until she had requested that the doctor write a note of their denial, along with reasoning, that they finally gave her some screenings. It was stage 2(3?), it had affected several lymph-nodes, but she was lucky that she persisted and did not just say “oh ya it’s fatigue”. When I ask her about how she knew, it’s always the same response, that it was just a feeling, that she knew something was not normal.
  - sarchertech 2y ago
    Yeah it's definitely possible. And it's terrible if you or someone you love is in that situation. But for the vast majority of people feeling off, tired, and some small aches is going to be nothing. There are costs to testing, financial and otherwise. For example you take someones family history, and other risk factors into account. There is a 1/100,000 chance that they have cancer. Then you add in the symptoms, fatigue, and minor aches and pains. That brings it to a 1/50,00 chance. We don't have the money, technicians, or machines to run an MRI on everyone who shows up to the doctor with a problem that has a 1/50,000 chance of being cancer. Then for many tests, with such a low prior probability, a positive test has a higher chance of being a false positive. So now you patients with massive anxiety out over a positive that has high chance of being a false positive. And you need to send them or further more invasive anymore expensive tests, that have real risks of harm.
jasonjayr 2y ago
IMHO, the REAL problem is not the individual doctors, it's the system we seem to have implemented to dole out "health care" as if it's a product that has to be rationed according to some metric. I've met doctors that are passionate, but are hamstrung by "the process". The hospital has policies, the insurance company has policies, local health departmen thas policies, whatever it is. I hate that "some process" needs to be in place to keep things in check, lest we end up with patients abusing things, or doctors abusing things (SURGERY ALL THE THINGS, for example). I think it's "the process" we have lost trust in. Individual people really do want to do good things for each other. But "the process" sadly has an awful lot of inertia, and doesn't make it easy to change.
- malcolmgreaves 2y ago
  Precisely right. The corporate takeover of medicine is dangerous. Private equity firms are buying up hospitals and then illegally shutting them down to cash out. (Yes, I’ve seen this happen first hand. I’ve also read about other cases.) Another example of small local governments getting railroaded by corporations that have more money and lawyers.
  - nradov 2y ago
    How does shutting down a hospital allow a PE firm to "cash out"? Let's see some actual numbers on that, not vague claims about tax write-offs. Sometimes PE firms take on too much debt as part of acquiring a hospital and paying out a special dividend to shareholders. But if the hospital later fails due to being unable to make debt payments then the PE firm takes a loss on their remaining equity stake; they would always prefer to keep it running as a going concern so that they can sell it for an additional profit later. There is a legitimate issue with concentrated ownership of provider organizations in some regions. More antitrust enforcement is needed to protect consumers but unfortunately that seems unlikely.
    - bbreier 2y ago
      I would say in your toy example the hospital has been shutdown due to the PE firm "cashing out" excessively
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
cameldrv 2y ago
A lot of it is just that: a) The knowledge is democratized on the internet (albeit often without proper context, and with somewhat limited accuracy) b) You just care a lot more about your own, or a loved one's health/life and are willing to put a lot more effort than a doctor can or an insurance company is willing to pay for. You may not have a medical degree, but if you're willing to put in 40 hours doing research and your condition is even somewhat unusual, you can probably exceed the knowledge of your doctor about your specific condition.
- adamredwoods 2y ago
  Regarding b) there's a term "advocating for one's health" and yes, doctors are fully aware of it. >> you can probably exceed the knowledge of your doctor about your specific condition. It depends on the doctor. That's why in the US patients first see a general practitioner, then are referred to a specialist. I've met some less knowledgeable doctors for my condition, but I don't discredit them for it. It's a difficult profession. Plus "doing research on your own" is not a bad idea, but if one deep dives and starts believing ivermectin cures everything, well, I'd say they did poor research, and poor research can be worse than listening to a doctor.
ryandrake 2y ago
"Do your own research" has turned into codeword for "Open yourself up to quackery." Nobody uses it to mean do actual research. It really means: Go onto YouTube or search and find all the various Herbal-this and Natural-that and Abc-Oils and Xyz-Supplements that confirm your suspicions that doctors are lying, and that managed to SEO their way to the top. Or, more recently, go onto your favorite political echo chamber and trust medical advice from pundits. When I need my car fixed, I don't go to the local psychic or consult Fox News. I go to a mechanic.

awkwardpotato 2y ago

[flagged]

sarchertech 2y ago
I mean a lot of people have lost trust in doctors, but then again a lot of people have decided that vaccines are created by Bill Gates to mind control them.
- codr7 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - spoaceman7777 2y ago
    Very true. My guinea worm used to tap out a valid Windows product registration key in morse code on demand. Then Bill went and shut him up :(
    - codr7 2y ago
      You still can't see it, can you? Africa is where all the resources are, we just have to get rid of all the pesky people standing in the way.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
adamredwoods 2y ago
I think there is a movement against science, largely from the COVID epidemic, but I would like to see numbers. I also believe for science, there are a lot of bad actors out on the internet publishing inaccurate information (ivermectin, flat earth, etc).

sarchertech 2y ago

People are really bad at doing their own research and diagnosing themselves. I'm much more medically knowledgeable than the average person. I'm reasonably smart, and interested in the subject. And then I married a doctor. But even given all of those things, I'm very bad a diagnosing myself. I once swore that I had Giardia. I read dozens of papers and case studies. A close family member of mine was also having some similar GI symptoms at the time, and I even calculated the probability that our symptoms were independent. After that was ruled out from testing and I kept having stomach pain, I did more research. I was pretty sure I had stomach cancer. Eventually I got scoped--gastritis. Took a PPI for a little bit and it cleared right up. Gastritis wasn't even something that I had considered. It showed up in my search results, but because it wasn't a serious problem, I didn't focus on it.

roflchoppa 2y ago
My sister had an experience where she went to the doctor multiple times because she had felt something “off” about her health, fatigue, small aches in her chest. Multiple times she was turned down for breast cancer screenings, she was told that she was too young (33 at the time). It was not until she had requested that the doctor write a note of their denial, along with reasoning, that they finally gave her some screenings. It was stage 2(3?), it had affected several lymph-nodes, but she was lucky that she persisted and did not just say “oh ya it’s fatigue”. When I ask her about how she knew, it’s always the same response, that it was just a feeling, that she knew something was not normal.
- sarchertech 2y ago
  Yeah it's definitely possible. And it's terrible if you or someone you love is in that situation. But for the vast majority of people feeling off, tired, and some small aches is going to be nothing. There are costs to testing, financial and otherwise. For example you take someones family history, and other risk factors into account. There is a 1/100,000 chance that they have cancer. Then you add in the symptoms, fatigue, and minor aches and pains. That brings it to a 1/50,00 chance. We don't have the money, technicians, or machines to run an MRI on everyone who shows up to the doctor with a problem that has a 1/50,000 chance of being cancer. Then for many tests, with such a low prior probability, a positive test has a higher chance of being a false positive. So now you patients with massive anxiety out over a positive that has high chance of being a false positive. And you need to send them or further more invasive anymore expensive tests, that have real risks of harm.

jasonjayr 2y ago

IMHO, the REAL problem is not the individual doctors, it's the system we seem to have implemented to dole out "health care" as if it's a product that has to be rationed according to some metric. I've met doctors that are passionate, but are hamstrung by "the process". The hospital has policies, the insurance company has policies, local health departmen thas policies, whatever it is. I hate that "some process" needs to be in place to keep things in check, lest we end up with patients abusing things, or doctors abusing things (SURGERY ALL THE THINGS, for example). I think it's "the process" we have lost trust in. Individual people really do want to do good things for each other. But "the process" sadly has an awful lot of inertia, and doesn't make it easy to change.

malcolmgreaves 2y ago
Precisely right. The corporate takeover of medicine is dangerous. Private equity firms are buying up hospitals and then illegally shutting them down to cash out. (Yes, I’ve seen this happen first hand. I’ve also read about other cases.) Another example of small local governments getting railroaded by corporations that have more money and lawyers.
- nradov 2y ago
  How does shutting down a hospital allow a PE firm to "cash out"? Let's see some actual numbers on that, not vague claims about tax write-offs. Sometimes PE firms take on too much debt as part of acquiring a hospital and paying out a special dividend to shareholders. But if the hospital later fails due to being unable to make debt payments then the PE firm takes a loss on their remaining equity stake; they would always prefer to keep it running as a going concern so that they can sell it for an additional profit later. There is a legitimate issue with concentrated ownership of provider organizations in some regions. More antitrust enforcement is needed to protect consumers but unfortunately that seems unlikely.
  - bbreier 2y ago
    I would say in your toy example the hospital has been shutdown due to the PE firm "cashing out" excessively

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

cameldrv 2y ago

A lot of it is just that: a) The knowledge is democratized on the internet (albeit often without proper context, and with somewhat limited accuracy) b) You just care a lot more about your own, or a loved one's health/life and are willing to put a lot more effort than a doctor can or an insurance company is willing to pay for. You may not have a medical degree, but if you're willing to put in 40 hours doing research and your condition is even somewhat unusual, you can probably exceed the knowledge of your doctor about your specific condition.

adamredwoods 2y ago
Regarding b) there's a term "advocating for one's health" and yes, doctors are fully aware of it. >> you can probably exceed the knowledge of your doctor about your specific condition. It depends on the doctor. That's why in the US patients first see a general practitioner, then are referred to a specialist. I've met some less knowledgeable doctors for my condition, but I don't discredit them for it. It's a difficult profession. Plus "doing research on your own" is not a bad idea, but if one deep dives and starts believing ivermectin cures everything, well, I'd say they did poor research, and poor research can be worse than listening to a doctor.

ryandrake 2y ago

"Do your own research" has turned into codeword for "Open yourself up to quackery." Nobody uses it to mean do actual research. It really means: Go onto YouTube or search and find all the various Herbal-this and Natural-that and Abc-Oils and Xyz-Supplements that confirm your suspicions that doctors are lying, and that managed to SEO their way to the top. Or, more recently, go onto your favorite political echo chamber and trust medical advice from pundits. When I need my car fixed, I don't go to the local psychic or consult Fox News. I go to a mechanic.