7 ms·

Putting aside the ethics of buying a Tesla in 2024, who buys a car brand legendary for unreliability and ridiculously long service times in a country that doesn

by Zanfa 2y ago

Putting aside the ethics of buying a Tesla in 2024, who buys a car brand legendary for unreliability and ridiculously long service times in a country that doesn't even have a dealership? Some people like to live dangerously.

jug 2y ago
With the horror stories I've heard, my max range from a national dealership would be around 80 km.
- gloxkiqcza 2y ago
  Tesla Center Vienna is a 70 km drive from Bratislava.
junglistguy 2y ago
[dead]
teekert 2y ago
I think it is unnecessary to say "Putting aside the ethics". This is a very personal thing, for you it would (presumably) take putting aside your ethics, and maybe it would for me. But that is not the case for everyone. I for one don't like it when people online, with every statement, signal their personal ethics. It gets to be very tiresome and degrades my HN experience. Actually it is degrading my whole internet browsing experience nowadays. There is too much "btw, you should feel bad when you do X". It's divisive, the US could use less divisiveness or anti-divisiveness. And in come the downvotes, for speaking up against divisiveness. Doesn't that make you feel.. something?
- chikere232 2y ago
  It's pretty useful to remind people that buying a tesla is supporting Musk.
  - teekert 2y ago
    Correction: You think that is useful. There are also people supporting Musk, should they add their statement to all of their posts? Is it really relevant? Don't you think people can't think for themselves? I follow the news, I'm pretty capable of deciding if I want a Tesla or not, people adding to all their posts that I should not doesn't change anything other then make me annoyed. Perhaps some like it, probably when it echoes their strong believes? So it's that? You signal you are one of those people? Well great for you! Now let's get back to discussing the article.
    - chikere232 2y ago
      I think there are lots of sort of tuned out but generally nice people who might shy away from buying a tesla if the perfidity of Musk is mentioned whenever tesla is discussed. The people who like Musk are probably beyond help
      - teekert 2y ago
        It always helps indeed, to change people's minds when you tell them "You are probably beyond help" or "You should feel bad if you do X". It's been great for my relationships! In fact, I'm gonna write a blog post now: "Things I wish someone would have told me before I went online and started sharing my opinions"! It's gonna be a guaranteed front-pager!
        nhinck3 2y ago
        [flagged]
        teekert 2y ago
        Please re-read my comments. I don't state anything for or against Musk, I make it a point not to. I try to stress that things are not as one-sided as this comment-thread tries to make it out to be. I believe that that is a good thing. Is it not amazing to you, that you have just labelled someone that tries to argue against divisiveness as a Nazi supporter? My country, my grand parents suffered greatly under the Nazi's. I know what divisiveness does, I know what labeling another group of people as less-human, and stopping all attempts at conversation with them, can do. Fixing your country's politics is not done by working hard to increase the divide. Sure, be against Trump/Musk, but at the very least try to understand their supporters. You'll find that most of them are kind.
- Gigachad 2y ago
  Personally I draw the line somewhere before not funding someone who does nazi salutes. But you do you.
  - teekert 2y ago
    Again an opinion, Musk said it was not a Nazi salute, he didn't repeat it, he has many Jewish supporters also saying it wasn't. Just stop, please, I'm really about to give up on the comment sections here.
    - NilMostChill 2y ago
      This seems like you're trying to say that you'll leave if you continue seeing things you don't agree with. That's 100% allowed, i'd personally encourage it, if you find yourself in a place you don't enjoy, stop going to that place. That's a mature response to a self-imposed stressful environment.
      - teekert 2y ago
        Sure, I agree with you, it just depends on what you want HN to be. I am an outsider to the US, I see your country as deeply divided. Families torn apart because of how they vote. Unthinkable here, probably unthinkable over there up until 10 years ago. In fact it seems more and more likely the US will erupt in a civil war, and split in 2. It just such a shame that HN, what I see as a gathering ground of intelligent people, is so much contributing to the divide by labeling people with other opinions as sub-humans almost. Belligerent, closed, judging. I don't like it. It's frightening.
        hypothesis 2y ago
        Is it more frightening or less than being legally banned from existence? You don’t have to know much about history to see why people start cutting abusive relationships.
        senordevnyc 2y ago
        Welcome to the downfall of civilization. It happens precisely because one side (or one player on one side) decides to stop playing infinite games, and start playing finite games instead. They weaponize your civility against you. The incentives for both sides shift, and we enter a downward spiral.
- NilMostChill 2y ago
  I would read that as "I'm specifically excluding talking points and discussion on ethics in this subject and focusing solely on the talking point at hand" That doesn't generally mean they have an ethical take, just that they recognise such things might exist and they specifically don't want to get in to it. Is that not what you want ? > And in come the downvotes, for speaking up against divisiveness. Doesn't that make you feel.. something? I'd assume it was because you were claiming divisiveness when the cause of such divisiveness was specifically excluded.
- rob74 2y ago
  Actually I'm curious if there is some kind of representative poll among Tesla owners about whether their personal ethics still align with the company's (or rather, its owner's) ethics. I mean, this is the guy who as recently as 2017 quit as an advisor for the first Trump administration because of Trump exiting the Paris climate agreement (https://money.cnn.com/2017/06/01/news/elon-musk-resigns-trump-adviser/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2017/06/01/news/elon-musk-resigns-trum...). Now I'm not sure which of the two alternatives is worse: that he has had a complete 180° turnaround of his moral compass, or that he was just pretending to care for the environment as long as it suited him?
  - TwoFerMaggie 2y ago
    A poll suggests among Dutch Tesla owners, 40% feel embarrassed due to Musk's behavior, and 30% consider selling. [0][1] [0]: https://nltimes.nl/2025/01/19/tesla-owners-react-elon-musks-controversies-3-10-consider-selling-cars https://nltimes.nl/2025/01/19/tesla-owners-react-elon-musks-... [1]: https://eenvandaag.avrotros.nl/panels/opiniepanel/alle-uitslagen/item/schaamte-bij-tesla-rijders-door-gedrag-elon-musk-3-op-de-10-eigenaren-willen-van-hun-auto-af/ https://eenvandaag.avrotros.nl/panels/opiniepanel/alle-uitsl...
    - prmph 2y ago
      > 30% consider selling So they’d want more Musk fans to buy Teslas and support him, right? If they really felt so strongly about doing something, then they should junk the cars. Well, I guess I shouldn’t be too hard on them. Musk’s fans are not going to go away, Better to let them keep the Teslas in the family.
- andrelaszlo 2y ago
  I think the downvotes is for essentially doing what you are criticizing when you point out a certain thing someone said that hurt you. They were making an effort to stay on topic (reliability issues with Tesla's cars). You're making it about divisiveness. The ethical considerations around Tesla are pretty bizarre. It gets political, since the owner of the company is so deeply associated with both the cars and politics. I don't think your comment comes from a bad place, I understand the fatigue and the desparation. However, when someone in power does something "divisive" (quotes, because its the understatement of the decade - you can probably come up with examples) and people who mention it, even by not mentioning it, are told to be quiet because they are being divisive - it can come off as trying to silence people and ensure no criticizism can be raised. Again, I don't think that was your intention but it has that effect either way.
- The_Colonel 2y ago
  > I for one don't like it when people online, with every statement, signal their personal ethics. It gets to be very tiresome and degrades my HN experience. Ironically, buying a Tesla is nowadays a very visible political statement.
gambiting 2y ago
Yeah honestly that's a completely insane part. I'm from a country that also didn't have an official Tesla presence until very recently and only extremely rich people bought Teslas, basically with the assumption that anything goes wrong you put it on a trailer and take it back to Germany where there is official Tesla support network, you have 5 other cars to drive to it's not a big deal. For someone who is "not a car guy" and for whom this is their only car....that's insane.
yreg 2y ago
> who buys a car brand in a country that doesn't even have a dealership? I too have bought a TM3 in Slovakia. The closest Tesla service center to Bratislava is 50 kilometers away, in Vienna. What's the problem with not having a branch here as well?
- ZeroGravitas 2y ago
  Do the remote service teams travel across the border? That would probably be more impactful than the physical distance if e.g. there was some minor recall that travelling repair men could take care of while the car is parked at home or work.
  - yreg 2y ago
    No, but do other brands even have remote service teams? I have never heard of anyone using such a service on any car in Slovakia. (Other than the assistance you can get from an insurance provider.)
- michaelt 2y ago
  If the purchase goes well, the vehicle is reliable, spare parts are easily available, and nobody has to resort to legal action? No problem. On the other hand, if I buy a car in Holland, get it serviced in Austria, and register and drive it in Slovakia - which legal system governs the transaction? Which country's consumer rights protections do I get? It would be jolly inconvenient if the manufacturer ripped me off, and my only option for redress was a court 1000km away, with the laws written and courts operated in a language I didn't speak. Or does the EU have some mechanism that avoids this problem?
  - Stevvo 2y ago
    The EU is a single market. The consumer protections are much the same between countries. The differences are less than those between US states.
  - yreg 2y ago
    Consumer protection follows the place of purchase and they are quite strong and very similar in the EU. I mean if I was super worried (as a Slovak) I could buy the car in Czech Republic which has pretty much identical consumer protection laws (and all Slovaks understand Czech well and vice versa). I bought mine in Slovenia. I understand Slovenian somewhat as well, but that didn't influence the decision. Fortunately I had zero issues in over 3 years and the car works great, but of course I could have been less lucky – I know that.
dubeye 2y ago
right, i think my limit would be a 40 minute drive to the nearest SC
rsynnott 2y ago
They say they bought it on the foot of blog advice, which seems to have convinced them it was reliable. Tesla has a host of weird superfan online defenders; if they went down the wrong rabbithole it’s possible they simply didn’t know.
ulfw 2y ago
That's the part I didn't understand either. If the car isn't even sold in the market you are asking for trouble. This isn't some super exotic oldtimer sports car whatever, which you can just tinker with and don't mind to lose a lot of money on. This is your average run of the mill vehicle that needs servicing. Madness to have to drive all the way to Budapest for that.

by Zanfa 2y ago

jug 2y ago

With the horror stories I've heard, my max range from a national dealership would be around 80 km.

gloxkiqcza 2y ago
Tesla Center Vienna is a 70 km drive from Bratislava.

junglistguy 2y ago

[dead]

teekert 2y ago

I think it is unnecessary to say "Putting aside the ethics". This is a very personal thing, for you it would (presumably) take putting aside your ethics, and maybe it would for me. But that is not the case for everyone. I for one don't like it when people online, with every statement, signal their personal ethics. It gets to be very tiresome and degrades my HN experience. Actually it is degrading my whole internet browsing experience nowadays. There is too much "btw, you should feel bad when you do X". It's divisive, the US could use less divisiveness or anti-divisiveness. And in come the downvotes, for speaking up against divisiveness. Doesn't that make you feel.. something?

chikere232 2y ago
It's pretty useful to remind people that buying a tesla is supporting Musk.
- teekert 2y ago
  Correction: You think that is useful. There are also people supporting Musk, should they add their statement to all of their posts? Is it really relevant? Don't you think people can't think for themselves? I follow the news, I'm pretty capable of deciding if I want a Tesla or not, people adding to all their posts that I should not doesn't change anything other then make me annoyed. Perhaps some like it, probably when it echoes their strong believes? So it's that? You signal you are one of those people? Well great for you! Now let's get back to discussing the article.
  - chikere232 2y ago
    I think there are lots of sort of tuned out but generally nice people who might shy away from buying a tesla if the perfidity of Musk is mentioned whenever tesla is discussed. The people who like Musk are probably beyond help
    - teekert 2y ago
      It always helps indeed, to change people's minds when you tell them "You are probably beyond help" or "You should feel bad if you do X". It's been great for my relationships! In fact, I'm gonna write a blog post now: "Things I wish someone would have told me before I went online and started sharing my opinions"! It's gonna be a guaranteed front-pager!
      - nhinck3 2y ago
        [flagged]
        teekert 2y ago
        Please re-read my comments. I don't state anything for or against Musk, I make it a point not to. I try to stress that things are not as one-sided as this comment-thread tries to make it out to be. I believe that that is a good thing. Is it not amazing to you, that you have just labelled someone that tries to argue against divisiveness as a Nazi supporter? My country, my grand parents suffered greatly under the Nazi's. I know what divisiveness does, I know what labeling another group of people as less-human, and stopping all attempts at conversation with them, can do. Fixing your country's politics is not done by working hard to increase the divide. Sure, be against Trump/Musk, but at the very least try to understand their supporters. You'll find that most of them are kind.
Gigachad 2y ago
Personally I draw the line somewhere before not funding someone who does nazi salutes. But you do you.
- teekert 2y ago
  Again an opinion, Musk said it was not a Nazi salute, he didn't repeat it, he has many Jewish supporters also saying it wasn't. Just stop, please, I'm really about to give up on the comment sections here.
  - NilMostChill 2y ago
    This seems like you're trying to say that you'll leave if you continue seeing things you don't agree with. That's 100% allowed, i'd personally encourage it, if you find yourself in a place you don't enjoy, stop going to that place. That's a mature response to a self-imposed stressful environment.
    - teekert 2y ago
      Sure, I agree with you, it just depends on what you want HN to be. I am an outsider to the US, I see your country as deeply divided. Families torn apart because of how they vote. Unthinkable here, probably unthinkable over there up until 10 years ago. In fact it seems more and more likely the US will erupt in a civil war, and split in 2. It just such a shame that HN, what I see as a gathering ground of intelligent people, is so much contributing to the divide by labeling people with other opinions as sub-humans almost. Belligerent, closed, judging. I don't like it. It's frightening.
      - hypothesis 2y ago
        Is it more frightening or less than being legally banned from existence? You don’t have to know much about history to see why people start cutting abusive relationships.
      - senordevnyc 2y ago
        Welcome to the downfall of civilization. It happens precisely because one side (or one player on one side) decides to stop playing infinite games, and start playing finite games instead. They weaponize your civility against you. The incentives for both sides shift, and we enter a downward spiral.
NilMostChill 2y ago
I would read that as "I'm specifically excluding talking points and discussion on ethics in this subject and focusing solely on the talking point at hand" That doesn't generally mean they have an ethical take, just that they recognise such things might exist and they specifically don't want to get in to it. Is that not what you want ? > And in come the downvotes, for speaking up against divisiveness. Doesn't that make you feel.. something? I'd assume it was because you were claiming divisiveness when the cause of such divisiveness was specifically excluded.
rob74 2y ago
Actually I'm curious if there is some kind of representative poll among Tesla owners about whether their personal ethics still align with the company's (or rather, its owner's) ethics. I mean, this is the guy who as recently as 2017 quit as an advisor for the first Trump administration because of Trump exiting the Paris climate agreement (https://money.cnn.com/2017/06/01/news/elon-musk-resigns-trump-adviser/index.html https://money.cnn.com/2017/06/01/news/elon-musk-resigns-trum...). Now I'm not sure which of the two alternatives is worse: that he has had a complete 180° turnaround of his moral compass, or that he was just pretending to care for the environment as long as it suited him?
- TwoFerMaggie 2y ago
  A poll suggests among Dutch Tesla owners, 40% feel embarrassed due to Musk's behavior, and 30% consider selling. [0][1] [0]: https://nltimes.nl/2025/01/19/tesla-owners-react-elon-musks-controversies-3-10-consider-selling-cars https://nltimes.nl/2025/01/19/tesla-owners-react-elon-musks-... [1]: https://eenvandaag.avrotros.nl/panels/opiniepanel/alle-uitslagen/item/schaamte-bij-tesla-rijders-door-gedrag-elon-musk-3-op-de-10-eigenaren-willen-van-hun-auto-af/ https://eenvandaag.avrotros.nl/panels/opiniepanel/alle-uitsl...
  - prmph 2y ago
    > 30% consider selling So they’d want more Musk fans to buy Teslas and support him, right? If they really felt so strongly about doing something, then they should junk the cars. Well, I guess I shouldn’t be too hard on them. Musk’s fans are not going to go away, Better to let them keep the Teslas in the family.
andrelaszlo 2y ago
I think the downvotes is for essentially doing what you are criticizing when you point out a certain thing someone said that hurt you. They were making an effort to stay on topic (reliability issues with Tesla's cars). You're making it about divisiveness. The ethical considerations around Tesla are pretty bizarre. It gets political, since the owner of the company is so deeply associated with both the cars and politics. I don't think your comment comes from a bad place, I understand the fatigue and the desparation. However, when someone in power does something "divisive" (quotes, because its the understatement of the decade - you can probably come up with examples) and people who mention it, even by not mentioning it, are told to be quiet because they are being divisive - it can come off as trying to silence people and ensure no criticizism can be raised. Again, I don't think that was your intention but it has that effect either way.
The_Colonel 2y ago
> I for one don't like it when people online, with every statement, signal their personal ethics. It gets to be very tiresome and degrades my HN experience. Ironically, buying a Tesla is nowadays a very visible political statement.

gambiting 2y ago

Yeah honestly that's a completely insane part. I'm from a country that also didn't have an official Tesla presence until very recently and only extremely rich people bought Teslas, basically with the assumption that anything goes wrong you put it on a trailer and take it back to Germany where there is official Tesla support network, you have 5 other cars to drive to it's not a big deal. For someone who is "not a car guy" and for whom this is their only car....that's insane.

yreg 2y ago

> who buys a car brand in a country that doesn't even have a dealership? I too have bought a TM3 in Slovakia. The closest Tesla service center to Bratislava is 50 kilometers away, in Vienna. What's the problem with not having a branch here as well?

ZeroGravitas 2y ago
Do the remote service teams travel across the border? That would probably be more impactful than the physical distance if e.g. there was some minor recall that travelling repair men could take care of while the car is parked at home or work.
- yreg 2y ago
  No, but do other brands even have remote service teams? I have never heard of anyone using such a service on any car in Slovakia. (Other than the assistance you can get from an insurance provider.)
michaelt 2y ago
If the purchase goes well, the vehicle is reliable, spare parts are easily available, and nobody has to resort to legal action? No problem. On the other hand, if I buy a car in Holland, get it serviced in Austria, and register and drive it in Slovakia - which legal system governs the transaction? Which country's consumer rights protections do I get? It would be jolly inconvenient if the manufacturer ripped me off, and my only option for redress was a court 1000km away, with the laws written and courts operated in a language I didn't speak. Or does the EU have some mechanism that avoids this problem?
- Stevvo 2y ago
  The EU is a single market. The consumer protections are much the same between countries. The differences are less than those between US states.
- yreg 2y ago
  Consumer protection follows the place of purchase and they are quite strong and very similar in the EU. I mean if I was super worried (as a Slovak) I could buy the car in Czech Republic which has pretty much identical consumer protection laws (and all Slovaks understand Czech well and vice versa). I bought mine in Slovenia. I understand Slovenian somewhat as well, but that didn't influence the decision. Fortunately I had zero issues in over 3 years and the car works great, but of course I could have been less lucky – I know that.

dubeye 2y ago

right, i think my limit would be a 40 minute drive to the nearest SC

rsynnott 2y ago

They say they bought it on the foot of blog advice, which seems to have convinced them it was reliable. Tesla has a host of weird superfan online defenders; if they went down the wrong rabbithole it’s possible they simply didn’t know.

ulfw 2y ago

That's the part I didn't understand either. If the car isn't even sold in the market you are asking for trouble. This isn't some super exotic oldtimer sports car whatever, which you can just tinker with and don't mind to lose a lot of money on. This is your average run of the mill vehicle that needs servicing. Madness to have to drive all the way to Budapest for that.