5 ms·

The same scheme is very common on the market for "new" laptop batteries sold by Chinese retailers on for example eBay. The batteries will come with a reprogramm

The same scheme is very common on the market for "new" laptop batteries sold by Chinese retailers on for example eBay. The batteries will come with a reprogrammed charge cycle count of 0, an unlikely serial number of all-zeroes/ones/nines or 123456789 etc., and with about 50% of its marketed capacity. As soon as you bring up a refund/warranty errand with the retailer they will offer a 50% discount for the battery in return for you not giving them a 1-star rating. Now you've still paid them for a bad battery, and you've helped keeping the systemic economic crime alive by not warning other customers.

cjbgkagh 2y ago
This stuff is trivial to detect by the platform. At best the platform could say they don’t search for it, but the only reason not to would be because they don’t want to find it. In essence they’re knowingly outsourcing fraud to sellers.
- greggsy 2y ago
  Handling the seller appeals would quickly become expensive
  - cjbgkagh 2y ago
    I concur, fraud is much cheaper and more profitable
- thayne 2y ago
  All they would have to do to prevent it is make it so if you give a 1 star review, you can't change it to something else later.
  - gruez 2y ago
    What happens if a customer made a hasty negative review but the vendor reached out and genuinely resolved/fixed the issue?
    - aaronax 2y ago
      You know, 1 star reviews are ok. It's like people want to do anything to keep from a single undeserved 1 star review from happening. What if the same logic was applied to 5 star reviews?
      - gruez 2y ago
        >What if the same logic was applied to 5 star reviews? I see plenty of 5 star reviews being edited to 2-3 star reviews afterwards though?
    - aspenmayer 2y ago
      It would be nice to see the entire interaction, from verified purchase on Amazon, to first review, and any subsequent changes or updates to the review, and whether or not a return or replacement of the product in the original verified purchase has occurred on a timeline per review.
  - cjbgkagh 2y ago
    If you do let people change it then annotate it with (edited) so people can perform their own heuristics, if 10% of 5 stars were edited then it’s a bit suspect. Or keep the history of the reviews - it doesn’t take much to spot check and if platform users can do this on an individual basis then obviously the platform could do this algorithmically. They’ve just made the conscious decision not to.
bluedino 2y ago
Amazon and eBay should crack down on this crap. I bought some tools on Amazon, sent them back because of quality issues, and left a 1 star review (they don't allow zero star reviews but that's another issue). Sure enough I get an email offering to send me a replacement, asking me to remove my review, I reported it and who knows what happens from there. Now, I have had very similar things happen on a website like HomeDepot.com, the manufacturer reached out, sent me a different tool as a replacement, and said I did not have to remove my review but they would appreciate if I did. Just as bad, IMO. The whole point of reviews is to let other consumers know your experience with the product.
- teddyh 2y ago
  > Amazon and eBay should crack down on this crap. Amazon and eBay are companies, which will do whatever is profitable and legal. The entity which should crack down on this is the government.
  - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
    Yes and no. Once (if) the government cracks on the retailer, the retailer cracks down on sellers who use their platform. Additionally, the retailer could actually have ethics of their own and choose willingly to raise the bar.
    - teddyh 2y ago
      > Additionally, the retailer could actually have ethics of their own and choose willingly to raise the bar. And my grandmother could get some wheels and become a bicycle.
      - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
        That transcends laughably unlikely and is instead impossible. At least it’s possible for ethics to come without law and it’s worth recognizing that.
      - 2y ago
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
> As soon as you bring up a refund/warranty errand with the retailer they will offer a 50% discount for the battery in return for you not giving them a 1-star rating. So I take the 50% and give them a bad rating once the money is in my bank account, complete with the documentation of their bribe for a good review. What do they do, realistically? (Probably get the review taken down by the platform administrators, but I did not contribute.)
- gruez 2y ago
  It's unlikely, but theoretically such offers constitutes a non-disparagement/NDA contract, which means if you break the contract by leaving a 1 star review they can go after you in court and probably win.
  - daneel_w 2y ago
    They are Chinese retailers, and these frauds are organized. They won't go after anyone in an overseas court - just as they don't worry one bit about an overseas court trying to reach them in China.
- daneel_w 2y ago
  Realistically they will do nothing, because only a fraction of the customers will put up a fight like this. The 99%, which make up the customers these organized fraudsters are banking on, won't bother because "it was still cheaper than buying it in the computer shop", and it's likely that most of them won't even notice in the first place.
y-c-o-m-b 2y ago
This has happened to me on eBay twice for items marked as "free returns" which claimed to have a hassle-free return process. My response was that they're obligated to return full price, or they can expect me to open a claim with eBay to get it, and that I am for sure giving negative feedback! Both times they caved and gave me 100% refund and told me to just keep the broken item. I still gave negative feedback. I'm not just losing money with these bastards, I'm wasting valuable time, and that is not something that can be refunded.
- dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago
  > Both times they caved and gave me 100% refund and told me to just keep the broken item. This is because eBay will ALWAYS side with the customer, and the seller will get a ding to boot. Never ever do a return with Chinese sellers, they will use it against you and you will lose your chance to dispute the transaction. If you are sold junk complain to the seller, then if they don't refund you go ahead and raise a dispute. If they offer a return then ask them to refund you ahead of time, in full, and to provide a label for the return.
  - tveyben 2y ago
    > Never ever do a return with Chinese sellers, they will use it against you and you will lose your chance to dispute the transaction. Well - that’s not my experience! Case 1 Packages lost, no track’n’trace one vendor sent order once more for no charge, another om gave a 50% discount Case 2 Product defect, returned it and later received the refund (matching their t&c) Case 3 (different, but shows customer service is working as expected) Wrong item received Full refund received In all cases I initiated a dialog, not just posted a bed review (‘keeping the leverage’) So maybe SOME Chinese shops misbehave, but for sure US and EU shops are similar… AliExpress is the shop in question… Just don’t think all are the same !!!
mock-possum 2y ago
> As soon as you bring up a refund/warranty errand with the retailer they will offer a 50% discount for the battery in return for you not giving them a 1-star rating. Wait how is that supposed to work - why would you buy another bad battery from them at 50% off? why would they have any say in why review you leave?
- hyperdimension 2y ago
  I believe it was a 50% refund on the (purchased) battery; not a 50% off coupon on another. That's how I read it anyway.
  - daneel_w 2y ago
    Correct.
ryanhecht 2y ago
> about 50% of its marketed capacity > they will offer a 50% discount I feel like I would need more than a 50% discount in order to go along with this...needing to charge/swap a battery more frequently is added cost! :p

cjbgkagh 2y ago

This stuff is trivial to detect by the platform. At best the platform could say they don’t search for it, but the only reason not to would be because they don’t want to find it. In essence they’re knowingly outsourcing fraud to sellers.

greggsy 2y ago
Handling the seller appeals would quickly become expensive
- cjbgkagh 2y ago
  I concur, fraud is much cheaper and more profitable
thayne 2y ago
All they would have to do to prevent it is make it so if you give a 1 star review, you can't change it to something else later.
- gruez 2y ago
  What happens if a customer made a hasty negative review but the vendor reached out and genuinely resolved/fixed the issue?
  - aaronax 2y ago
    You know, 1 star reviews are ok. It's like people want to do anything to keep from a single undeserved 1 star review from happening. What if the same logic was applied to 5 star reviews?
    - gruez 2y ago
      >What if the same logic was applied to 5 star reviews? I see plenty of 5 star reviews being edited to 2-3 star reviews afterwards though?
  - aspenmayer 2y ago
    It would be nice to see the entire interaction, from verified purchase on Amazon, to first review, and any subsequent changes or updates to the review, and whether or not a return or replacement of the product in the original verified purchase has occurred on a timeline per review.
- cjbgkagh 2y ago
  If you do let people change it then annotate it with (edited) so people can perform their own heuristics, if 10% of 5 stars were edited then it’s a bit suspect. Or keep the history of the reviews - it doesn’t take much to spot check and if platform users can do this on an individual basis then obviously the platform could do this algorithmically. They’ve just made the conscious decision not to.

bluedino 2y ago

Amazon and eBay should crack down on this crap. I bought some tools on Amazon, sent them back because of quality issues, and left a 1 star review (they don't allow zero star reviews but that's another issue). Sure enough I get an email offering to send me a replacement, asking me to remove my review, I reported it and who knows what happens from there. Now, I have had very similar things happen on a website like HomeDepot.com, the manufacturer reached out, sent me a different tool as a replacement, and said I did not have to remove my review but they would appreciate if I did. Just as bad, IMO. The whole point of reviews is to let other consumers know your experience with the product.

teddyh 2y ago
> Amazon and eBay should crack down on this crap. Amazon and eBay are companies, which will do whatever is profitable and legal. The entity which should crack down on this is the government.
- lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
  Yes and no. Once (if) the government cracks on the retailer, the retailer cracks down on sellers who use their platform. Additionally, the retailer could actually have ethics of their own and choose willingly to raise the bar.
  - teddyh 2y ago
    > Additionally, the retailer could actually have ethics of their own and choose willingly to raise the bar. And my grandmother could get some wheels and become a bicycle.
    - lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago
      That transcends laughably unlikely and is instead impossible. At least it’s possible for ethics to come without law and it’s worth recognizing that.
    - 2y ago

lcnPylGDnU4H9OF 2y ago

> As soon as you bring up a refund/warranty errand with the retailer they will offer a 50% discount for the battery in return for you not giving them a 1-star rating. So I take the 50% and give them a bad rating once the money is in my bank account, complete with the documentation of their bribe for a good review. What do they do, realistically? (Probably get the review taken down by the platform administrators, but I did not contribute.)

gruez 2y ago
It's unlikely, but theoretically such offers constitutes a non-disparagement/NDA contract, which means if you break the contract by leaving a 1 star review they can go after you in court and probably win.
- daneel_w 2y ago
  They are Chinese retailers, and these frauds are organized. They won't go after anyone in an overseas court - just as they don't worry one bit about an overseas court trying to reach them in China.
daneel_w 2y ago
Realistically they will do nothing, because only a fraction of the customers will put up a fight like this. The 99%, which make up the customers these organized fraudsters are banking on, won't bother because "it was still cheaper than buying it in the computer shop", and it's likely that most of them won't even notice in the first place.

y-c-o-m-b 2y ago

This has happened to me on eBay twice for items marked as "free returns" which claimed to have a hassle-free return process. My response was that they're obligated to return full price, or they can expect me to open a claim with eBay to get it, and that I am for sure giving negative feedback! Both times they caved and gave me 100% refund and told me to just keep the broken item. I still gave negative feedback. I'm not just losing money with these bastards, I'm wasting valuable time, and that is not something that can be refunded.

dkjaudyeqooe 2y ago
> Both times they caved and gave me 100% refund and told me to just keep the broken item. This is because eBay will ALWAYS side with the customer, and the seller will get a ding to boot. Never ever do a return with Chinese sellers, they will use it against you and you will lose your chance to dispute the transaction. If you are sold junk complain to the seller, then if they don't refund you go ahead and raise a dispute. If they offer a return then ask them to refund you ahead of time, in full, and to provide a label for the return.
- tveyben 2y ago
  > Never ever do a return with Chinese sellers, they will use it against you and you will lose your chance to dispute the transaction. Well - that’s not my experience! Case 1 Packages lost, no track’n’trace one vendor sent order once more for no charge, another om gave a 50% discount Case 2 Product defect, returned it and later received the refund (matching their t&c) Case 3 (different, but shows customer service is working as expected) Wrong item received Full refund received In all cases I initiated a dialog, not just posted a bed review (‘keeping the leverage’) So maybe SOME Chinese shops misbehave, but for sure US and EU shops are similar… AliExpress is the shop in question… Just don’t think all are the same !!!

mock-possum 2y ago

> As soon as you bring up a refund/warranty errand with the retailer they will offer a 50% discount for the battery in return for you not giving them a 1-star rating. Wait how is that supposed to work - why would you buy another bad battery from them at 50% off? why would they have any say in why review you leave?

hyperdimension 2y ago
I believe it was a 50% refund on the (purchased) battery; not a 50% off coupon on another. That's how I read it anyway.
- daneel_w 2y ago
  Correct.

ryanhecht 2y ago

> about 50% of its marketed capacity > they will offer a 50% discount I feel like I would need more than a 50% discount in order to go along with this...needing to charge/swap a battery more frequently is added cost! :p