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Estonia to disconnect from the Russian-run electricity network on Saturday

100 points by sohkamyung 2y ago

redwood 2y ago
Exciting
qxtarGaK 2y ago
Let's also disconnect form Saudi Arabia and Qatar and spend 5% of the EU GDP on tanks powered by solar cells and batteries (oh wait, these are manufactured in China, which is also forbidden).
varsketiz 2y ago
Lithuania - which I am from - as well. It's a long awaited step in becoming more independant from russia.
- snapcaster 2y ago
  How is it viewed in your country? does this mean big increase in electricity prices?
  - hkpack 2y ago
    Most likely the networks were connected for stability reasons for peak consumption instead of trading. Also if russia was selling below EU market prices, it meant that there was a corruption somewhere, as it doesn’t make any sense from business perspective to do so. Russia uses its energy as a weapon to corrupt and finance specific politicians, every country has to keep as far away from them as possible even if they offer energy for free. Source: we had the same in Ukraine, and every step in decoupling from russia is made with blood.
  - varsketiz 2y ago
    I don't know how it works on a detail level. Nobody is talking about price increases. I buy electricity on a nordic (https://www.enefit.lt/en/privatiems/elektra#/ https://www.enefit.lt/en/privatiems/elektra#/) market already. It is viewed as a positive thing in general. The politicians that were against this development while it was ongoing are silent.
IndrekR 2y ago
Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia (in that order) will disconnect from grids in Königsberg (Kaliningrad), Belarus and Russia (in this order). After that the area will be working as isolated grid for 33h, after which the grids will be connected to synchronization link between Lithuania and Poland. Königsberg will remain a grid-island. Summary of timeline on page 18 (in Estonian): https://elering.ee/sites/default/files/public/S%C3%BCnkroniseerimise%20%C3%BCmarlaud/2024/%C3%9Cmarlaua%20slaidid.pdf https://elering.ee/sites/default/files/public/S%C3%BCnkronis...
- ivan_gammel 2y ago
  Out of curiosity, why are you using the old name of Kaliningrad? I thought it was different only in Polish language.
  - urcite_ty_kokos 2y ago
    It's Královec in Czech.
    - croisillon 2y ago
      as we know: https://visitkralovec.cz/ https://visitkralovec.cz/
    - ivan_gammel 2y ago
      Good to know, thanks. It’s reasonable to expect language-specific names, just strange to see it in English (even in German that is a bit weird).
      - flohofwoe 2y ago
        It's more like a running joke by now, giving Královec 'back' to the Czech Republic means they could finally have a proper overseas harbor and a Navy. Just think of the possibilities :)
      - bonzini 2y ago
        Koenigsberg is a somewhat known name due to Euler's bridges problem. Kant also lived there.
redwood 2y ago
Exciting. For folks in the states who are so insulated from fundamental dangers, at least non-home-grown dangers, it's wonderful to see folks with the conviction and drive to do what they must do for their own destiny
- belter 2y ago
  Not if you live in Texas...
cingraa 2y ago
Cost of electricity in Russia: $0.05 Cost of electricity in Estonia: $0.26 Painful.
- snapcaster 2y ago
  Wow that's brutal, what's the context for this change? Was Estonia "bullied" into this, is it a popular change? 5xing electricity prices causes so much human suffering hope estonians have good ways of coping
  - sixothree 2y ago
    I wouldn't mind some context here. Is 0.05 the price _only_ inside of Russia. Regardless, 0.05 seems extremely cheap to me. I can't think of any places in the states that pay that little. And 0.26 seems pretty darn expensive. I can only think of a few places I have been that charge that much.
    - snapcaster 2y ago
      Ah gotcha, so they're not actually paying 0.05 now and they probably won't pay 0.26 in the future?
    - forty 2y ago
      From what I read, there are countries in Europe where it's ~0.40€/kWh (like Germany). Here in France it's ~0.20€/kWh
    - kasey_junk 2y ago
      It doesn’t quote which price that is, which matters for this discussion, but I routinely pay 5c or less for energy generated in the states.
    - napoleongl 2y ago
      If it hadn’t been for Germany being one big area in terms of electricity pricing, all swedens four electricity areas would have been far below that. Now our two southernmost areas are infected by what I understand is southern German prices. https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/kontrollrummet/ https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/kontrollrummet/
throwaway191215 2y ago
I feel that the EU is behind the curve. Trump just disbanded the task force that targets Russian oligarchs: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-disbands-task-force-targeting-russian-oligarchs-2025-02-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-disban... Furthermore, there is a clear danger that Trump will make peace in Ukraine (without consulting either the EU or Ukraine) and have the EU pay for the reconstruction. And he'll possible resume friendship with Russia after the EU-Russia relationships have been ruined. The EU should stop playing the games of the US, which change every four years. It should develop its own foreign policy and stop being taken advantage of. Rule #1: Never get involved in a war that is promoted by the US. All "friends" of the US have been screwed over in various proxy wars. Kissinger even said "to be a friend of the US is fatal".
- flanked-evergl 2y ago
  Trump term 1 was significantly harder on Russia than Biden before the invasion of Ukraine. To suggest that he is pro-Russia is absurd, has always been, will always be. That being said, the war has to end. Pretending like it could go on indefinitely, as Biden and Europe did, is infantile.
  - jcranmer 2y ago
    > Trump term 1 was significantly harder on Russia than Biden before the invasion of Ukraine. To suggest that he is pro-Russia is absurd, has always been, will always be. How? Trump rather infamously stood up at a press conference and said, in effect, he trusted Putin more than his own intelligence agencies. The only real anti-Russia thing done during his administration that I can recall is the Magnitsky Act, but the clear impetus for that came from Congress and Trump only very reluctantly signed it.
    - flanked-evergl 2y ago
      > Trump rather infamously stood up at a press conference and said, in effect, he trusted Putin more than his own intelligence agencies. Words are not policy. Biden stopped selling weapons to Ukraine and removed sanctions on Nord stream 2.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jmyeet 2y ago
The Russian invasion of Ukraine has clearly reshaped Europe and it's impossible to tell what the long term impacts will be. Some random thoughts: 1. It clearly strengthened NATO, with Finland and Sweden joining and member nations increasing military spending; 2. It revealed Russia's military as a paper tiger and exposed the rampant corruption; 3. It became apparent that neither Ukraine nor Russia could "win" militarily (whatever that means) after 1-2 years; 4. Barring serious escalation, it's now a war of attrition. Ukraine is running out of people to conscript. But Russia is hurting too. Bringing in North Korean troops is clearly a measure to avoid or delay another mobilization; 5. Thus far, the Russian economy has withstood sanctions probably better than anyone expected; 6. Russia has done long-term damage to their energy exports regardless of the outcome. Europe won't be keen to return to a dependence on Russian natural gas; 7. The most likely outcome for awhile seems to be that the West will eventually get bored and there'll be a negotiated settlement that'll cede Ukrainina territory to Russia, creating a land bridge to Crimea and guarantee a Russian port in the Black Sea (IMHO); 8. There clearly has been internal strife in Russia. Oligarchs are dying in car crashes an dfalling out of windows at an alarming rate. And this is beyond the one very public and short-lived coup attempt; 9. If Ukraine cedes territory to Russia, I very much suspect Zollensky will have to flee the country and it will go hard right, kinda like Hungary; 10. Less talked about is Asaad falling in Syria but it's significant as this was a port for the Russian navy in the Meditaranean. Russia had been forced to use this for repairs after Ukrainian missile and drone attacks on their Black Sea fleet. That is a serious loss; 11. Many like to paint Trump as a Putin patsy, even an asset. The truth seems to be far more complicated. For example, Trump had been banging the drum about the dangers of Nordstream 1 and 2 and European dependence on Russian natural gas back in 2017-2018. In fact, Germany conceded to pressure by the first Trump administration to build an LNG port because of this threat. Those aren't pro-Russian moves. 12. As much as Trump may want to end the conflict, there will be significant resitance to this because it's hugely profitable to the military-industrial complex. Fun fact: spending in Afghanistan in the last year was pretty much the amount spent on military aid to Ukraine in the firs tyear. 13. Ukraine is and always was too large to occupy so either that was never the goal or Putin didn't listen to his generals. I've seen estimates that you'd need a standing army of 500,000+ to occupy a country the size of Ukraine and it would be a quagmire like 1980s Afghanistan was for the Soviets; 14. So either the goal had to be gaining territory, installing a puppet regime (like Lukashenko previously) and/or it was ideological (the so-called "Duganist" argument). 15. Between China and India there will always be a market for Russian energy exports.

100 points by sohkamyung 2y ago

Exciting

Let's also disconnect form Saudi Arabia and Qatar and spend 5% of the EU GDP on tanks powered by solar cells and batteries (oh wait, these are manufactured in China, which is also forbidden).

varsketiz 2y ago

Lithuania - which I am from - as well. It's a long awaited step in becoming more independant from russia.

snapcaster 2y ago
How is it viewed in your country? does this mean big increase in electricity prices?
- hkpack 2y ago
  Most likely the networks were connected for stability reasons for peak consumption instead of trading. Also if russia was selling below EU market prices, it meant that there was a corruption somewhere, as it doesn’t make any sense from business perspective to do so. Russia uses its energy as a weapon to corrupt and finance specific politicians, every country has to keep as far away from them as possible even if they offer energy for free. Source: we had the same in Ukraine, and every step in decoupling from russia is made with blood.
- varsketiz 2y ago
  I don't know how it works on a detail level. Nobody is talking about price increases. I buy electricity on a nordic (https://www.enefit.lt/en/privatiems/elektra#/ https://www.enefit.lt/en/privatiems/elektra#/) market already. It is viewed as a positive thing in general. The politicians that were against this development while it was ongoing are silent.

IndrekR 2y ago

Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia (in that order) will disconnect from grids in Königsberg (Kaliningrad), Belarus and Russia (in this order). After that the area will be working as isolated grid for 33h, after which the grids will be connected to synchronization link between Lithuania and Poland. Königsberg will remain a grid-island. Summary of timeline on page 18 (in Estonian): https://elering.ee/sites/default/files/public/S%C3%BCnkroniseerimise%20%C3%BCmarlaud/2024/%C3%9Cmarlaua%20slaidid.pdf https://elering.ee/sites/default/files/public/S%C3%BCnkronis...

ivan_gammel 2y ago
Out of curiosity, why are you using the old name of Kaliningrad? I thought it was different only in Polish language.
- urcite_ty_kokos 2y ago
  It's Královec in Czech.
  - croisillon 2y ago
    as we know: https://visitkralovec.cz/ https://visitkralovec.cz/
  - ivan_gammel 2y ago
    Good to know, thanks. It’s reasonable to expect language-specific names, just strange to see it in English (even in German that is a bit weird).
    - flohofwoe 2y ago
      It's more like a running joke by now, giving Královec 'back' to the Czech Republic means they could finally have a proper overseas harbor and a Navy. Just think of the possibilities :)
    - bonzini 2y ago
      Koenigsberg is a somewhat known name due to Euler's bridges problem. Kant also lived there.

redwood 2y ago

Exciting. For folks in the states who are so insulated from fundamental dangers, at least non-home-grown dangers, it's wonderful to see folks with the conviction and drive to do what they must do for their own destiny

belter 2y ago
Not if you live in Texas...

cingraa 2y ago

Cost of electricity in Russia: $0.05 Cost of electricity in Estonia: $0.26 Painful.

snapcaster 2y ago
Wow that's brutal, what's the context for this change? Was Estonia "bullied" into this, is it a popular change? 5xing electricity prices causes so much human suffering hope estonians have good ways of coping
- sixothree 2y ago
  I wouldn't mind some context here. Is 0.05 the price _only_ inside of Russia. Regardless, 0.05 seems extremely cheap to me. I can't think of any places in the states that pay that little. And 0.26 seems pretty darn expensive. I can only think of a few places I have been that charge that much.
  - snapcaster 2y ago
    Ah gotcha, so they're not actually paying 0.05 now and they probably won't pay 0.26 in the future?
  - forty 2y ago
    From what I read, there are countries in Europe where it's ~0.40€/kWh (like Germany). Here in France it's ~0.20€/kWh
  - kasey_junk 2y ago
    It doesn’t quote which price that is, which matters for this discussion, but I routinely pay 5c or less for energy generated in the states.
  - napoleongl 2y ago
    If it hadn’t been for Germany being one big area in terms of electricity pricing, all swedens four electricity areas would have been far below that. Now our two southernmost areas are infected by what I understand is southern German prices. https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/kontrollrummet/ https://www.svk.se/om-kraftsystemet/kontrollrummet/

throwaway191215 2y ago

I feel that the EU is behind the curve. Trump just disbanded the task force that targets Russian oligarchs: https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-disbands-task-force-targeting-russian-oligarchs-2025-02-06/ https://www.reuters.com/world/us/trump-administration-disban... Furthermore, there is a clear danger that Trump will make peace in Ukraine (without consulting either the EU or Ukraine) and have the EU pay for the reconstruction. And he'll possible resume friendship with Russia after the EU-Russia relationships have been ruined. The EU should stop playing the games of the US, which change every four years. It should develop its own foreign policy and stop being taken advantage of. Rule #1: Never get involved in a war that is promoted by the US. All "friends" of the US have been screwed over in various proxy wars. Kissinger even said "to be a friend of the US is fatal".

flanked-evergl 2y ago
Trump term 1 was significantly harder on Russia than Biden before the invasion of Ukraine. To suggest that he is pro-Russia is absurd, has always been, will always be. That being said, the war has to end. Pretending like it could go on indefinitely, as Biden and Europe did, is infantile.
- jcranmer 2y ago
  > Trump term 1 was significantly harder on Russia than Biden before the invasion of Ukraine. To suggest that he is pro-Russia is absurd, has always been, will always be. How? Trump rather infamously stood up at a press conference and said, in effect, he trusted Putin more than his own intelligence agencies. The only real anti-Russia thing done during his administration that I can recall is the Magnitsky Act, but the clear impetus for that came from Congress and Trump only very reluctantly signed it.
  - flanked-evergl 2y ago
    > Trump rather infamously stood up at a press conference and said, in effect, he trusted Putin more than his own intelligence agencies. Words are not policy. Biden stopped selling weapons to Ukraine and removed sanctions on Nord stream 2.

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

jmyeet 2y ago

The Russian invasion of Ukraine has clearly reshaped Europe and it's impossible to tell what the long term impacts will be. Some random thoughts: 1. It clearly strengthened NATO, with Finland and Sweden joining and member nations increasing military spending; 2. It revealed Russia's military as a paper tiger and exposed the rampant corruption; 3. It became apparent that neither Ukraine nor Russia could "win" militarily (whatever that means) after 1-2 years; 4. Barring serious escalation, it's now a war of attrition. Ukraine is running out of people to conscript. But Russia is hurting too. Bringing in North Korean troops is clearly a measure to avoid or delay another mobilization; 5. Thus far, the Russian economy has withstood sanctions probably better than anyone expected; 6. Russia has done long-term damage to their energy exports regardless of the outcome. Europe won't be keen to return to a dependence on Russian natural gas; 7. The most likely outcome for awhile seems to be that the West will eventually get bored and there'll be a negotiated settlement that'll cede Ukrainina territory to Russia, creating a land bridge to Crimea and guarantee a Russian port in the Black Sea (IMHO); 8. There clearly has been internal strife in Russia. Oligarchs are dying in car crashes an dfalling out of windows at an alarming rate. And this is beyond the one very public and short-lived coup attempt; 9. If Ukraine cedes territory to Russia, I very much suspect Zollensky will have to flee the country and it will go hard right, kinda like Hungary; 10. Less talked about is Asaad falling in Syria but it's significant as this was a port for the Russian navy in the Meditaranean. Russia had been forced to use this for repairs after Ukrainian missile and drone attacks on their Black Sea fleet. That is a serious loss; 11. Many like to paint Trump as a Putin patsy, even an asset. The truth seems to be far more complicated. For example, Trump had been banging the drum about the dangers of Nordstream 1 and 2 and European dependence on Russian natural gas back in 2017-2018. In fact, Germany conceded to pressure by the first Trump administration to build an LNG port because of this threat. Those aren't pro-Russian moves. 12. As much as Trump may want to end the conflict, there will be significant resitance to this because it's hugely profitable to the military-industrial complex. Fun fact: spending in Afghanistan in the last year was pretty much the amount spent on military aid to Ukraine in the firs tyear. 13. Ukraine is and always was too large to occupy so either that was never the goal or Putin didn't listen to his generals. I've seen estimates that you'd need a standing army of 500,000+ to occupy a country the size of Ukraine and it would be a quagmire like 1980s Afghanistan was for the Soviets; 14. So either the goal had to be gaining territory, installing a puppet regime (like Lukashenko previously) and/or it was ideological (the so-called "Duganist" argument). 15. Between China and India there will always be a market for Russian energy exports.