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And only one of them was a person being burnt to death
by bogantech 2y ago
And only one of them was a person being burnt to death
- multiplegeorges 2y agoThis happens in cars very often. Surely you apply the same rigorous analysis to driving as you did to this, correct?
- fullshark 2y agoTalk about a false equivalence
- ceejayoz 2y agoPeople die horribly - including the specific example of "being burnt to death" - in both methods of getting places, in fairly low numbers per million passenger miles.
- fullshark 2y agoSo we shouldn’t be concerned about random subway murders cause of car accidents? What?
- ceejayoz 2y agoWe should weigh the usefulness and the relative frequencies of dying, not singular anecdotes. It’s not as if there has never been a murder in a car.
- kouru225 2y agoIf you’re gonna spend your time solving a problem, are you gonna try to solve: 1) the 10 murders a year using a mode of transportation that sees 2 million daily users 2) the 250 murders a year using a mode of transportation that sees 1 million daily users ??? Cars are dangerous and they cause crime.
- drawkward 2y agoWhereas I agree with the general thrust of your point, I am not sure cars cause crime. Perhaps their drivers do; perhaps the cars are accessories. But the cars are not causing the crime.
- kouru225 2y agoIf the mode of travel inherently results in a high rate of death and injury, then what’s the difference? We call it a crime if someone does it to another person, but it’s just an accident if cars keep doing it over and over again?
- drawkward 2y agoThe justice system does not work on cars, no matter how guilty you allege they are. People, on the other hand...
- ceejayoz 2y agoThere's almost certainly a case like https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U.S._Currency https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._$124,700_in_U... ("United States v. $124,700 in U.S. Currency") and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Article_Consisting_of_50,000_Cardboard_Boxes_More_or_Less,_Each_Containing_One_Pair_of_Clacker_Balls https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Article_Consi... ("United States v. Article Consisting of 50,000 Cardboard Boxes More or Less, Each Containing One Pair of Clacker Balls") for a car. edit: Ah, here we go. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_1958_Plymouth_Sedan_v._Pennsylvania https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_1958_Plymouth_Sedan_v._Pen... Or even cats in cars. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota_v._Fifteen_Impounded_Cats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Dakota_v._Fifteen_Impoun... More seriously, though, I'd very much like to see civil liability for the car manufacturers for deliberately making cars bigger and more dangerous for pedestrians over the last few decades. (https://www.npr.org/2024/12/10/nx-s1-5222277/taller-vehicles-are-more-dangerous-to-pedestrians-even-at-low-speeds-research-finds https://www.npr.org/2024/12/10/nx-s1-5222277/taller-vehicles...) > It's the latest study to find that taller vehicles are more dangerous for pedestrians. The majority of vehicles sold in the U.S. are now SUVs and light trucks, which can have front ends that are often 40 inches or taller. Safety advocates say that's one reason why pedestrian fatalities are up more than 75% since reaching their lowest point in 2009.
- roywiggins 2y agoPeople are murdered by road rage-ing drivers relatively frequently. They rarely make national news though. https://everytownresearch.org/road-rage-shootings-remain-alarmingly-high/ https://everytownresearch.org/road-rage-shootings-remain-ala... (the link only counts shootings; there are surely more intentional homicides-by- and homicides-while driving)
- barbazoo 2y agoIt was murder, wasn’t it?
- ceejayoz 2y agoMurders happen on and off the subway. Some in cars! Some using cars! Most are horrible. Plenty include fire. More people take the subway each day than total residents of some entire states. No one says “avoid Wyoming” over one murder, but it only has 500k people. The subway has millions.
- Paul-Craft 2y agoI can think of way better reasons to avoid Wyoming.
- yablak 2y agoBut...but..but... J hole!
- _DeadFred_ 2y agoThere's plenty of people that die because of cost cutting/saving a buck with vehicles/roads. Just those intentional... sorry, I mean, acceptable deaths are just fine with society.
- xnyan 2y agohttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Murders_by_motor_vehicle https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Murders_by_motor_vehi...
- Paul-Craft 2y agoThat seems to have been going around for, oh, the past 47 minutes or so.
- drawkward 2y agoSafer than driving, you say?
- maplant 2y agoI'm pretty sure one of the properties of cars is that they can catch on fire (due to all that gasoline, which is famously flammable), so I don't think you should start driving if you want to avoid burning to death
- eru 2y agoCars are mostly dangerous to other people, less so to the people inside of them. Especially at inner-city speeds. (Well, at least when you like at direct injury. People inside the cars might have long running health effects from insufficient exercise.)
- jakelazaroff 2y agoEven as a car occupant, you’re still significantly likelier to die in a crash than you are riding the subway. In NYC — but also basically anywhere else, at any time of day.
- janalsncm 2y agoChance of being in a car accident on the train is zero. Chance of being the victim of a crime is low but not zero.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- Larrikin 2y agoThis person enjoys discussing ML, according to their post history. Either they are stupid, actually talking out their butt and should be no where near a mathematical discussion or they are purposely using their ethical statistics class to be disingenuous and their "conclusions" should be thrown out.
- Invictus0 2y agoAnd only one of them was a person being sparta-kicked onto the tracks
- orionsbelt 2y agoAnd only one of them was a young woman having her face randomly shoved into the side of an arriving train rendering her a quadriplegic.
- ceejayoz 2y agoA scenario that has never occurred a) outside the subway or b) outside NYC, yes?
- janalsncm 2y agoThis is true unfortunately. https://apnews.com/article/new-york-subway-woman-fire-c946bb951f67116e1bfb399f99ab5062 https://apnews.com/article/new-york-subway-woman-fire-c946bb... If there is a “bright” side it’s that they caught the guy almost immediately because of cameras. It will take some time, but my hope is that eventually criminals will understand that cameras now make escaping from a crime impossible. Solve rate goes up -> crime rate goes down -> solve rate goes up even more.
- bennettnate5 2y agoI'm not sure someone intent on burning a person to death in public is going to be very deterred by the knowledge that cameras are recording their acts.
- SoftTalker 2y agoIn fact they may encourage him.
- cowhow 2y agoI don't have stats, but I strongly suspect the set of NYC people aiming to burn others to death in public (and ruin their own lives in the process) is quite small. The presence of cameras is almost certainly a net positive for reducing crime
- saghm 2y agoYes, and the presence of cameras would presumably mean that if the parent commenter's prediction comes true, the crime rate would go down even more as crimes of opportunity vanish and crimes from people who are disturbed enough to do things like that are still quite rare.
- kennysoona 2y ago> eventually criminals will understand that cameras now make escaping from a crime impossible. In NYC most of the time the cameras are such low resolution that when they post a photo of someone wanted for a crime it's impossible to make them out at all.
- h0l0cube 2y agoAre you sure it wasn't a strawman?
- kouru225 2y agoHm I wonder if that had anything to do with the subway itself? Is it possible that a crazy person could burn someone alive in any location?
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoGenerally the NYC subway puts you into closer contact with crazy people than you would get normally. It’s like the bus here in Seattle and Link train, a lot of people don’t ride them because they don’t feel safe with all crazy people riding them…only a few people get killed by these people a year but it still discourages ridership. (Note that neither Seattle nor NYC are known for homicide, so murders like these are really notable)
- kouru225 2y agoAnd yet the subway is safer in NYC than any other mode of travel. So it turns out that everyone's fear of each other is not only stupid, but actively harmful
- roywiggins 2y agoand, almost more importantly, NYC could not exist as it does without public transit. It would simply not function. The alternative to NYC having mass transit is not "everyone gets to drive to Manhattan in their cars."
- seanmcdirmid 2y agoYes, but still a bit less crazies murdering people will always be nice and appreciated. Mobile homeless sheltering isn’t sustainable if you want other people to use transit.
- philistine 2y agoWe don't just have a bit less crazies when you compare with the 70s, 80s, or even the 90s. We flattened crime.
- gcapu 2y agoThere's people burned to death all over the US. Most of them were murdered by negligent road engineers.
- throw0101d 2y ago> And only one of them was a person being burnt to death Flying is getting safer and safer… only one recent crash at Ronald Regain airport (KDCA).