5 ms·

Of Course It's a Coup

144 points by oxley 2y ago

jmclnx 2y ago
If it is a coup, it can be easily stopped if Congress and the Courts get off their butts and do something. How about force Musk to testify under oath in Congress. Oh, it was tried but the GOP blocked it.
- Tostino 2y ago
  Bunch of sycophants who are willing to sell out our democracy for some twitter likes. Edit: The post is flagged. Glad we have nothing to worry about. No discussion necessary.
- iJohnDoe 2y ago
  That’s the whole point of a coup. That’s how it works. That’s the scariest piece about all of it. The people that can stop it aren’t doing anything. They are afraid. They don’t want to be on the losing side. Maybe they tell themselves if they do nothing then they can stay where they are and work to fix things from within. If they speak up then they get thrown out. It’s better to say nothing. However, they most likely never had a spine to begin with or they simply agree with what’s happening. Or worse, they don’t want to give up their cushy life and don’t care who gets hurt. Any president can lose their minds and do crazy things. That’s nothing to worry about. We have systems in place to solve that. What you’re seeing is the system failing and our elected people doing nothing for the purpose of saving their own skin.
yapyap 2y ago
Can’t get over “Skibidi Hitler” anyway yeah, it’s been clear. There really wasn’t any nuance in what he did.
Trasmatta 2y ago
It's a coup that is being allowed and empowered by the party that already controls all 3 branches of government. It's very clear what's happening: what's less clear to me is how to stop it. EDIT: this post keeps getting flagged. The techbros who are currently destroying our democracy are upset that they're being called out.
- throwaway5752 2y ago
  The current US president was voted for by just 23.1% of the US population. I am not adjusting for eligible voters, but there is no sweeping mandate regardless of what anyone would have you believe. They are certainly trying to make it seem that way. Bluster tricks fools. What to do about is to call your representatives, boycott companies if necessary, and cast an informed vote in local, state, and federal elections every chance you have. And it is shameful this submission was flagged successfully. It is a high quality, factual, and relevant article. I'm embarrassed to be a member of this site today.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    The eligible voters who didn’t vote also made a decision. But if you are in a deep red state or deep blue state, why vote with the way that the electoral college works?
  - kreetx 2y ago
    Are you able to consider that others have an opposing opinion to yours?
    - throwaway5752 2y ago
      Do you have a more substantiative point than this? To answer your question, yes I do. To try to guess what you are talking about, I'd say it's "Bluster tricks fools". I'm not saying everyone that disagrees with this administrations actions are fools, far from it. But they are governing by press release of administrative action. They could do everything they are doing quietly, but they are not. It is clear they are trying to create a "shock and awe" type reaction. This is by definition aimed at lower information populations who are impressed by performative actions. I also know that some disagree with me, and respect that. At least 23% of the US public, and likely much more. I'm sure many of them are intelligent and decent people. However, we have a system of rules. When that system of rules is disregarded, bad things happen to societies. So I would prefer they make their policy changes through the existing system rather that break laws, as it is widely considered they are doing. Please let me know if you had a different point in your brief message.
oxley 2y ago
For context, the author is a historian specialized in the mechanisms of authoritarianism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Snyder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Snyder
monetus 2y ago
One torment on an individual level, is that none of us have any particular agency to do anything about it. Not alone, not even with many. Overwhelming numbers accompanied by intense societal disfunction could, maybe, possibly work. Signs and angry chants won't stop these loons. Strategic occupations might help, like MLK overburdening jails during sit-ins, but even that is an annoyance they will put down violently if it inconveniences people in the west wing. Be very careful.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  You seem to be under the impression that this isn’t what the majority wants? You also have the owner of one social media company embedded in the White House and the other just paid tribute to Trump to “settle a lawsuit” as well as ABC, CNN and CBS bowing to him and paying him off to “settle a lawsuit”. The opposition are a bunch of disorganized wimps that don’t know how to play dirty. They are still playing by the old rules. Yes I’m well aware of civil rights history. My still living parents grew up in the Jim Crow south.
  - t-writescode 2y ago
    Even r/Conservative is freaking out about various bits of what is being done. Most of them seemed to think that the tariffs against Canada were a bad idea. Same with the Trail of Tears in Gaza the president is talking about doing.
    - scarface_74 2y ago
      Reddit is not the real world. In the real world, everyone in power is supporting him or staying quiet. Even Democratic Governors are laying low. https://apnews.com/article/trump-democrats-governors-election-3695aba08c28e1dcd4360ce8263186fa https://apnews.com/article/trump-democrats-governors-electio... The “Fifth estate” isn’t helping either: - ABC News is owned by Disney and Disney doesn’t want to have a fight with Trump after they already lost a fight with mini-Trump (Desantis). I happen to live 10 miles away from Disney - CNN is owned by Discovery/TimeWarner who needs the administration not to block whatever merger they are trying to make next. - CBS is owned by Paramount Global is also trying to make a merger deal that that don’t want the government to block. And why would you think conservatives care about Gaza? A large majority of them are Evangelical Christian and see saving Israel as a step in the second coming of Christ and the rapture (not exaggerating at all). As far as Trail of Tears, Native Americans are constantly worried about getting rounded up by ICE because ICE can’t tell the difference between them and Mexicans. https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/tribal-nations-urge-citizens-to-carry-id-as-ice-raids-increase https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/tribal-nations-urge-ci...
zfg 2y ago
[flagged]
- scarface_74 2y ago
  Musk doesn’t care. Tesla stock has always been unaligned with its revenue. Trump supporters and his supporters will just buy on the dip
  - zfg 2y ago
    He'll care. It will sting him right in the narcissism. But it's certainly true he won't change or improve.
Tostino 2y ago
It looks like this post is unflagged finally. I left this comment on another version that was also flagged, so I figured i'll repost it here: I took the time to write an email to both of my senators, and congress person (i'm in FL, they are all R's). Absolutely unconscionable for them to abdicate their responsibilities and oath to the constitution. I don't expect it to change any minds, but some pressure is never a bad thing. If anyone wants to use it as inspiration to write their own: https://gist.github.com/Tostino/6cb89b58ca4070ab7520a64b5ac770a2 https://gist.github.com/Tostino/6cb89b58ca4070ab7520a64b5ac7... edit: I mean...Musk isn't even denying what it is: https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1887258455037387257 https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1887258455037387257
- hoten 2y ago
  that gist 404s
  - Tostino 2y ago
    Thanks, fixed.
- mostlysimilar 2y ago
  Email is not nearly as effective as a phone call. Seriously. CALL THEM, don't just send an email into the void.
  - Tostino 2y ago
    Yeah, planning on doing that today.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
Not to mention this same president allowed people who did attempt a violent coup (of the "usual" kind) to get out of jail despite being convicted. (And despite previous assurances, i.e., from Vance that "of course" violent offenders would not be freed.) And the GOP-controlled Senate just stood by.
- kcplate 2y ago
  > previous assurances, i.e., from Vance JD Vance isn’t the president and everybody who was paying attention in 2016-2020 should realize that Trump listens only to Trump. Not sure what you think the senate could have done about it…the president has the authority to pardon and he literally did it hours after he was inaugurated.
  - psadauskas 2y ago
    Trump listens to the last person who talked to him. You can find superclips of his schedule, and then giving a speech or press conference parroting the same ideas of the people he met with earlier that day. Then a couple days later saying the opposite, because he met with someone else that day.
nathanaldensr 2y ago
[flagged]
- kreetx 2y ago
  As an European, I don't quite get what people are complaining about, Trump is doing what he said he will do and has a mandate for it. Of course the Democrat university professor will try to rally up people.
  - Tostino 2y ago
    We have a separation of powers for a reason. This is throwing out the main power entrusted to our Congress. Why would any future administration care about what Congress has to say after this precedent is set? He also doesn't have a mandate, he won by relatively thin margins just like all of our recent elections. If they want to do this and not destroy our democracy, they just need to pass a bill to make the changes they want.
  - anon2549 2y ago
    > has a mandate for it He certainly has no mandate for anything. He only barely won.
    - kreetx 2y ago
      Is the typical presidential win much more substantial?
      - anon2549 2y ago
        Yes. This is the slimmest margin of victory since at least Lyndon Johnson in 1964.
        kreetx 2y ago
        Do you mean the margin presented in the table here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_Electoral_College_margin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presiden... And how does one come up with sufficient margins for the president to do any given thing?
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
tim333 2y ago
Trump delegated to Musk to do this. I'm not sure if it's gone beyond his legal powers but the fact that the recently elected president delegated things to his assistant is a weak argument that we have a coup.
- Tostino 2y ago
  You would have not said a word about Harris appointing George Soros to a similar position to make unilateral decision over things to which the president isn't supposed to control?
  - tim333 2y ago
    I might have criticized it and am not wild about Musk but I don't think either is a coup in the usual sense of the word. If Musk had taken over that could be but I'm pretty sure Trump is still in charge. See Trump's take on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuPr2-T_Z_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuPr2-T_Z_U
    - Tostino 2y ago
      It would still be a similar form of coup (IMO) if Trump was doing it himself. We have three co-equal branches of government for a reason, and the power of the purse lies with Congress. The president not faithfully executing the will of congress when it comes to spending is the underlying issue. If congress wants to destroy all of these institutions and agencies they have created and funded over the years, they need to do that. Not allow the executive branch to wield dictatorial powers. Why would any future president care at all what bills congress passes going forward? Just do as you wish, there are no consequences. Is that really the system you want to live under?
      - tim333 2y ago
        Well maybe. I'm not that up on the US system and what the president does or does not have the right to do. It's funny in the video Trump is talking about $100m for condoms to Hamas which is apparently because the US sent $50m in such aid to Gaza, Mozambique and the new administration mixed up the countries as well as the amount. I'm sure this will all work out well.
tobr 2y ago
@dang Why is this repeatedly getting flagged?
- oxley 2y ago
  I emailed hn@ycombinator.com asking why this was flagged and did not get an answer.
insane_dreamer 2y ago
Flagged again; wtf HN?

144 points by oxley 2y ago

If it is a coup, it can be easily stopped if Congress and the Courts get off their butts and do something. How about force Musk to testify under oath in Congress. Oh, it was tried but the GOP blocked it.

Tostino 2y ago
Bunch of sycophants who are willing to sell out our democracy for some twitter likes. Edit: The post is flagged. Glad we have nothing to worry about. No discussion necessary.
iJohnDoe 2y ago
That’s the whole point of a coup. That’s how it works. That’s the scariest piece about all of it. The people that can stop it aren’t doing anything. They are afraid. They don’t want to be on the losing side. Maybe they tell themselves if they do nothing then they can stay where they are and work to fix things from within. If they speak up then they get thrown out. It’s better to say nothing. However, they most likely never had a spine to begin with or they simply agree with what’s happening. Or worse, they don’t want to give up their cushy life and don’t care who gets hurt. Any president can lose their minds and do crazy things. That’s nothing to worry about. We have systems in place to solve that. What you’re seeing is the system failing and our elected people doing nothing for the purpose of saving their own skin.

yapyap 2y ago

Can’t get over “Skibidi Hitler” anyway yeah, it’s been clear. There really wasn’t any nuance in what he did.

Trasmatta 2y ago

It's a coup that is being allowed and empowered by the party that already controls all 3 branches of government. It's very clear what's happening: what's less clear to me is how to stop it. EDIT: this post keeps getting flagged. The techbros who are currently destroying our democracy are upset that they're being called out.

throwaway5752 2y ago
The current US president was voted for by just 23.1% of the US population. I am not adjusting for eligible voters, but there is no sweeping mandate regardless of what anyone would have you believe. They are certainly trying to make it seem that way. Bluster tricks fools. What to do about is to call your representatives, boycott companies if necessary, and cast an informed vote in local, state, and federal elections every chance you have. And it is shameful this submission was flagged successfully. It is a high quality, factual, and relevant article. I'm embarrassed to be a member of this site today.
- scarface_74 2y ago
  The eligible voters who didn’t vote also made a decision. But if you are in a deep red state or deep blue state, why vote with the way that the electoral college works?
- kreetx 2y ago
  Are you able to consider that others have an opposing opinion to yours?
  - throwaway5752 2y ago
    Do you have a more substantiative point than this? To answer your question, yes I do. To try to guess what you are talking about, I'd say it's "Bluster tricks fools". I'm not saying everyone that disagrees with this administrations actions are fools, far from it. But they are governing by press release of administrative action. They could do everything they are doing quietly, but they are not. It is clear they are trying to create a "shock and awe" type reaction. This is by definition aimed at lower information populations who are impressed by performative actions. I also know that some disagree with me, and respect that. At least 23% of the US public, and likely much more. I'm sure many of them are intelligent and decent people. However, we have a system of rules. When that system of rules is disregarded, bad things happen to societies. So I would prefer they make their policy changes through the existing system rather that break laws, as it is widely considered they are doing. Please let me know if you had a different point in your brief message.

oxley 2y ago

For context, the author is a historian specialized in the mechanisms of authoritarianism: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Snyder https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_Snyder

monetus 2y ago

One torment on an individual level, is that none of us have any particular agency to do anything about it. Not alone, not even with many. Overwhelming numbers accompanied by intense societal disfunction could, maybe, possibly work. Signs and angry chants won't stop these loons. Strategic occupations might help, like MLK overburdening jails during sit-ins, but even that is an annoyance they will put down violently if it inconveniences people in the west wing. Be very careful.

scarface_74 2y ago
You seem to be under the impression that this isn’t what the majority wants? You also have the owner of one social media company embedded in the White House and the other just paid tribute to Trump to “settle a lawsuit” as well as ABC, CNN and CBS bowing to him and paying him off to “settle a lawsuit”. The opposition are a bunch of disorganized wimps that don’t know how to play dirty. They are still playing by the old rules. Yes I’m well aware of civil rights history. My still living parents grew up in the Jim Crow south.
- t-writescode 2y ago
  Even r/Conservative is freaking out about various bits of what is being done. Most of them seemed to think that the tariffs against Canada were a bad idea. Same with the Trail of Tears in Gaza the president is talking about doing.
  - scarface_74 2y ago
    Reddit is not the real world. In the real world, everyone in power is supporting him or staying quiet. Even Democratic Governors are laying low. https://apnews.com/article/trump-democrats-governors-election-3695aba08c28e1dcd4360ce8263186fa https://apnews.com/article/trump-democrats-governors-electio... The “Fifth estate” isn’t helping either: - ABC News is owned by Disney and Disney doesn’t want to have a fight with Trump after they already lost a fight with mini-Trump (Desantis). I happen to live 10 miles away from Disney - CNN is owned by Discovery/TimeWarner who needs the administration not to block whatever merger they are trying to make next. - CBS is owned by Paramount Global is also trying to make a merger deal that that don’t want the government to block. And why would you think conservatives care about Gaza? A large majority of them are Evangelical Christian and see saving Israel as a step in the second coming of Christ and the rapture (not exaggerating at all). As far as Trail of Tears, Native Americans are constantly worried about getting rounded up by ICE because ICE can’t tell the difference between them and Mexicans. https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/tribal-nations-urge-citizens-to-carry-id-as-ice-raids-increase https://nativenewsonline.net/currents/tribal-nations-urge-ci...

zfg 2y ago

[flagged]

scarface_74 2y ago
Musk doesn’t care. Tesla stock has always been unaligned with its revenue. Trump supporters and his supporters will just buy on the dip
- zfg 2y ago
  He'll care. It will sting him right in the narcissism. But it's certainly true he won't change or improve.

Tostino 2y ago

It looks like this post is unflagged finally. I left this comment on another version that was also flagged, so I figured i'll repost it here: I took the time to write an email to both of my senators, and congress person (i'm in FL, they are all R's). Absolutely unconscionable for them to abdicate their responsibilities and oath to the constitution. I don't expect it to change any minds, but some pressure is never a bad thing. If anyone wants to use it as inspiration to write their own: https://gist.github.com/Tostino/6cb89b58ca4070ab7520a64b5ac770a2 https://gist.github.com/Tostino/6cb89b58ca4070ab7520a64b5ac7... edit: I mean...Musk isn't even denying what it is: https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1887258455037387257 https://xcancel.com/elonmusk/status/1887258455037387257

hoten 2y ago
that gist 404s
- Tostino 2y ago
  Thanks, fixed.
mostlysimilar 2y ago
Email is not nearly as effective as a phone call. Seriously. CALL THEM, don't just send an email into the void.
- Tostino 2y ago
  Yeah, planning on doing that today.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

Not to mention this same president allowed people who did attempt a violent coup (of the "usual" kind) to get out of jail despite being convicted. (And despite previous assurances, i.e., from Vance that "of course" violent offenders would not be freed.) And the GOP-controlled Senate just stood by.

kcplate 2y ago
> previous assurances, i.e., from Vance JD Vance isn’t the president and everybody who was paying attention in 2016-2020 should realize that Trump listens only to Trump. Not sure what you think the senate could have done about it…the president has the authority to pardon and he literally did it hours after he was inaugurated.
- psadauskas 2y ago
  Trump listens to the last person who talked to him. You can find superclips of his schedule, and then giving a speech or press conference parroting the same ideas of the people he met with earlier that day. Then a couple days later saying the opposite, because he met with someone else that day.

nathanaldensr 2y ago

[flagged]

kreetx 2y ago
As an European, I don't quite get what people are complaining about, Trump is doing what he said he will do and has a mandate for it. Of course the Democrat university professor will try to rally up people.
- Tostino 2y ago
  We have a separation of powers for a reason. This is throwing out the main power entrusted to our Congress. Why would any future administration care about what Congress has to say after this precedent is set? He also doesn't have a mandate, he won by relatively thin margins just like all of our recent elections. If they want to do this and not destroy our democracy, they just need to pass a bill to make the changes they want.
- anon2549 2y ago
  > has a mandate for it He certainly has no mandate for anything. He only barely won.
  - kreetx 2y ago
    Is the typical presidential win much more substantial?
    - anon2549 2y ago
      Yes. This is the slimmest margin of victory since at least Lyndon Johnson in 1964.
      - kreetx 2y ago
        Do you mean the margin presented in the table here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_elections_by_Electoral_College_margin https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presiden... And how does one come up with sufficient margins for the president to do any given thing?

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

tim333 2y ago

Trump delegated to Musk to do this. I'm not sure if it's gone beyond his legal powers but the fact that the recently elected president delegated things to his assistant is a weak argument that we have a coup.

Tostino 2y ago
You would have not said a word about Harris appointing George Soros to a similar position to make unilateral decision over things to which the president isn't supposed to control?
- tim333 2y ago
  I might have criticized it and am not wild about Musk but I don't think either is a coup in the usual sense of the word. If Musk had taken over that could be but I'm pretty sure Trump is still in charge. See Trump's take on that: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuPr2-T_Z_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuPr2-T_Z_U
  - Tostino 2y ago
    It would still be a similar form of coup (IMO) if Trump was doing it himself. We have three co-equal branches of government for a reason, and the power of the purse lies with Congress. The president not faithfully executing the will of congress when it comes to spending is the underlying issue. If congress wants to destroy all of these institutions and agencies they have created and funded over the years, they need to do that. Not allow the executive branch to wield dictatorial powers. Why would any future president care at all what bills congress passes going forward? Just do as you wish, there are no consequences. Is that really the system you want to live under?
    - tim333 2y ago
      Well maybe. I'm not that up on the US system and what the president does or does not have the right to do. It's funny in the video Trump is talking about $100m for condoms to Hamas which is apparently because the US sent $50m in such aid to Gaza, Mozambique and the new administration mixed up the countries as well as the amount. I'm sure this will all work out well.

tobr 2y ago

@dang Why is this repeatedly getting flagged?

oxley 2y ago
I emailed hn@ycombinator.com asking why this was flagged and did not get an answer.

insane_dreamer 2y ago

Flagged again; wtf HN?