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> The buyout offer entitles federal employees to stop working more or less immediately and continue to be paid through Sept. 30. > The federal workforce's norm

> The buyout offer entitles federal employees to stop working more or less immediately and continue to be paid through Sept. 30. > The federal workforce's normal attrition rate is about 6% a year, meaning some of those who've taken the buyout may have been planning to leave government service anyway. Wow, talk about an amazing deal if you already happened to be planning on leaving...

bilekas 2y ago
> Critics argue the offer is illegal, there's no real guarantee people will get paid out, and it's something Congress would need to authorize. Give then history of this particular admistration & business', I personally wouldn't be too confident in actually getting paid up to Sept.
- iancmceachern 2y ago
  Totally, all those Twitter people that never saw it...
- Molitor5901 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - thesuperbigfrog 2y ago
    >> Congress technically already authorized it when it approved the FY 2025 budget. That's why they are getting paid to September. That money was already approved and appropriated by congress, signed into law, and is the budget for that agency. They're spending that money how congress directed them to, but in a way congress likely never anticipated. No money has been appropriated beyond March 14th. "the promise to pay employees beyond Mar. 14 is unauthorized. The Anti-Deficiency Act prohibits an agency from entering a contract 'before any appropriation is made unless authorized by law.' The deferred resignation program offers employees pay that is not currently appropriated. Current appropriations will expire on Mar. 14th and, therefore, agencies currently lack the legal authority to agree to pay employees beyond this date." Source: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/will-employees-who-resign-have-a-remedy https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/will-employees-who-resi...
  - Jtsummers 2y ago
    There was no FY 2025 budget. It's all CRs again, currently through 14 March.
  - skovati 2y ago
    Congress hasn't actually agreed on a FY2025 budget though right? We're just running on Continuing Resolutions currently. So the budget is actually subject to change when this CR runs out March 14th.
  - dekhn 2y ago
    Multiple people have pointed that you are factually incorrect, so probably best to stop repeating this in comments across the post.
  - tstrimple 2y ago
    In addition to what the others have stated regarding the 2025 budget being locked... Congress also authorized a lot of the things being ransacked right now like USAID. The rule of law seems to offer very little real protections here. So much of the US government is run on precedent and tradition and is incredibly vulnerable (as we're finding out) to folks who give zero fucks about precedent and tradition. Unfortunately the Democratic Party is still completely beholden to those precedents and traditions and have absolutely no clue how to handle opponents who don't.
- tdeck 2y ago
  One key difference is that those businesses had to pay with Trump's money. While these employees will be paid with our money.
  - mcmcmc 2y ago
    That doesn’t matter. Trump gets off on cheating people to get a “win”.
  - bongodongobob 2y ago
    Elon and his little pawns are in the Treasury dept computers right now.
  - margalabargala 2y ago
    From his perspective, is there a difference?
aurareturn 2y ago
Wow, talk about an amazing deal if you already happened to be planning on leaving... I'm guessing the vast majority who take the deal were already planning to leave? So we're wasting tax payer money giving them 8 months severance when it could have been 0.
- tombert 2y ago
  I also suspect that there really isn't nearly as much "waste" here as Musk is alleging, so we are going to be forced to re-hire people, while still paying a ton of workers for 8 months of no work. This doesn't seem "efficient" to me, but "efficient" is a word that doesn't actually mean anything without context, which they don't provide.
  - varsketiz 2y ago
    Well, it depends on what goals Trump and Musk consider worthwhile. Just hypothetically, if they dont consider healthcare for all a worthwhile goal - possibly every dollar spent on Obamacare is waste from their perspective. I think they will find a lot of waste - question is if people in the USA will agree.
    - tombert 2y ago
      Well that's what I mean, "efficiency" is a term that doesn't mean anything in isolation, and because of that they can define it to mean whatever they want it to mean and declare victory as a result. I also think there might be some shady math going on; they're counting every canceled thing as "savings", but I don't think they're going to count the cost of rehiring the lost workers and redoing these contracts.
      - Majromax 2y ago
        > Well that's what I mean, "efficiency" is a term that doesn't mean anything in isolation, and because of that they can define it to mean whatever they want it to mean and declare victory as a result. Efficiency does have a sensible definition in isolation: an efficient system is one in which there are no more Pareto improvements. From the government perspective, you could consider this in terms of the cost/service frontier, and actions which move the government towards that frontier improve efficiency. However, I do agree with your practical concern that 'efficiency' is being used without regard at all for the services being delivered. This seems particularly likely since the government is attempting to eliminate whole departments or agencies by executive order, implying it gives no value to said services.
Molitor5901 2y ago
I would not leave. Getting into the federal system was hard before, it's going to be near impossible now. For people who are not AI experts, engineers, doctors, etc. the federal government offers pay and benefits unparalleled to anything those same people would find in the private sector. Not to mention the job protections that really don't exist in any other private sector American company.
- selectodude 2y ago
  What job protections? They’re predicated on the president following the constitution. We’re long, long past that.
- pkulak 2y ago
  Yes... the job protections.
- tombert 2y ago
  I feel like that used to be true, but I'm not sure it's been true for the last ~decade or so. My mom works for the federal government as an attorney. She likes her job, but she has mentioned to me that there are just as many layoff rounds, if not more, as you'd get in the private sector. Moreover, there are a lot of things that are kind of bullshit; her office refused to provide paper towels or soap in the kitchen, so she had to spend her own money and bring them in herself. Are soap or paper towels expensive? No, it's not beyond her means, but it's not like most private sector jobs "brag" about having paper towels near the sink, it's usually not considered a "perk". ETA: Just a note, these complaints go back to even the Obama years, I think.
  - robocat 2y ago
    I would also worry whether I would receive my pension payouts. Depending upon future governments to pay out for your work investment seems risky. My ignorant impression is that pension funds will always be raided (whether private or government) and payments seem to decrease regardless of past promises.
- drewda 2y ago
francisofascii 2y ago
If you wanted to hit a "years of service" number, this may not count towards that.
Jtsummers 2y ago
>> The buyout offer entitles federal employees to stop working more or less immediately and continue to be paid through Sept. 30. Except it doesn't entitle them to stop working. OPM cannot tell workers to stop working or put them on leave. It's up to their agency to determine if they will keep them working or put them on leave. The framing by whoever is in OPM is disingenuous.
normalaccess 2y ago
When you put it that way it does seem like a win win for both sides. The Trump haters get almost a year of paid vacation and the administration gets less internal drama.
ericmcer 2y ago
Pretty standard government worker deal. I am not crying too many tears over government workers facing just a smidge of the uncertainty that everyone else has been living with since Covid. Your salary/promotions/healthcare/retirement are no longer guaranteed by just doing enough to not get fired (which is almost impossible)? Boo hoo, Welcome to the reality that everyone else in the world works in. In tech we are scrabbling for jobs, navigating layoffs, and fighting tooth and nail to prove we create value and justify our salaries. I don't think it is cruel to request "public servants" do the same. 8 months paid would be an insane deal for private industry layoffs. We all just get a sad email and some well wishes.
- afavour 2y ago
  Most of us in tech also get paid far, far more than anyone in the public sector. It’s always been my perception that the reliability of the job is a perk that makes up for the subpar salaries. I don’t think public sector workers are as spoiled as you make out.
  - psychlops 2y ago
    How does your job security and pension compare?
    - edm0nd 2y ago
      I work in private industry (cybersec) and we have a pension + 401k w match. It's great. I dont think I would ever work for the state or federal gov. Their pay sucks.
      - psychlops 2y ago
        Both!? That's unusual, congrats. My point is that the straight pay comparison to a gov employee doesn't count as people go there for the safety and pension. Pensions can really add up the total amount and the spouse collects money as well after the pensioner passes on. To compare to a private job, the actual pay a public employee made per hour of work cannot be known until after the pensioner and spouse are deceased.
giarc 2y ago
I heard that on average 10,000 employees retire every month. So if you had planned to retire in Jan/Feb/Mar, you might as well take the buy out and gain a few extra months of basically "free pay". That is assuming that it actually arrives in your bank account.
Aurornis 2y ago
> if you already happened to be planning on leaving... This is why you should ignore any absolute numbers about people taking the buyout. You want to look at the relative percentage taking the deal compared to their normal turnover. If the number of people taking the "buyout" isn't significantly higher than their normal turnover, that's a sign that they're just overpaying people who were already leaving.
bmitc 2y ago
So in addition to the mockery, they're paying people to do what they were already going to do for free? Small government and low spending indeed ...
squigz 2y ago
Wait hold on - 20,000+ people being paid 8 months severance? That sounds... like a long time, and a lot of money. I'd have a hard time believing that. Any takers around here want to elaborate on their choice?
UltraSane 2y ago
Except that the money hasn't been approved by congress and will probably never be paid because the employees will have absolutely no method of redress it it is not.
credit_guy 2y ago
> Wow, talk about an amazing deal if you already happened to be planning on leaving... What does "planning on leaving" mean? I am personally planning on leaving this year, if a better opportunity shows up. As I was last year. "Planning on leaving" means very little until you have a firm offer in hand. And when you do have that offer, then you are just leaving, not "planning on leaving".
- kevmo314 2y ago
  Retiring, for example.

bilekas 2y ago

> Critics argue the offer is illegal, there's no real guarantee people will get paid out, and it's something Congress would need to authorize. Give then history of this particular admistration & business', I personally wouldn't be too confident in actually getting paid up to Sept.

iancmceachern 2y ago
Totally, all those Twitter people that never saw it...
Molitor5901 2y ago
[flagged]
- thesuperbigfrog 2y ago
  >> Congress technically already authorized it when it approved the FY 2025 budget. That's why they are getting paid to September. That money was already approved and appropriated by congress, signed into law, and is the budget for that agency. They're spending that money how congress directed them to, but in a way congress likely never anticipated. No money has been appropriated beyond March 14th. "the promise to pay employees beyond Mar. 14 is unauthorized. The Anti-Deficiency Act prohibits an agency from entering a contract 'before any appropriation is made unless authorized by law.' The deferred resignation program offers employees pay that is not currently appropriated. Current appropriations will expire on Mar. 14th and, therefore, agencies currently lack the legal authority to agree to pay employees beyond this date." Source: https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/will-employees-who-resign-have-a-remedy https://www.lawfaremedia.org/article/will-employees-who-resi...
- Jtsummers 2y ago
  There was no FY 2025 budget. It's all CRs again, currently through 14 March.
- skovati 2y ago
  Congress hasn't actually agreed on a FY2025 budget though right? We're just running on Continuing Resolutions currently. So the budget is actually subject to change when this CR runs out March 14th.
- dekhn 2y ago
  Multiple people have pointed that you are factually incorrect, so probably best to stop repeating this in comments across the post.
- tstrimple 2y ago
  In addition to what the others have stated regarding the 2025 budget being locked... Congress also authorized a lot of the things being ransacked right now like USAID. The rule of law seems to offer very little real protections here. So much of the US government is run on precedent and tradition and is incredibly vulnerable (as we're finding out) to folks who give zero fucks about precedent and tradition. Unfortunately the Democratic Party is still completely beholden to those precedents and traditions and have absolutely no clue how to handle opponents who don't.
tdeck 2y ago
One key difference is that those businesses had to pay with Trump's money. While these employees will be paid with our money.
- mcmcmc 2y ago
  That doesn’t matter. Trump gets off on cheating people to get a “win”.
- bongodongobob 2y ago
  Elon and his little pawns are in the Treasury dept computers right now.
- margalabargala 2y ago
  From his perspective, is there a difference?

aurareturn 2y ago

Wow, talk about an amazing deal if you already happened to be planning on leaving... I'm guessing the vast majority who take the deal were already planning to leave? So we're wasting tax payer money giving them 8 months severance when it could have been 0.

tombert 2y ago
I also suspect that there really isn't nearly as much "waste" here as Musk is alleging, so we are going to be forced to re-hire people, while still paying a ton of workers for 8 months of no work. This doesn't seem "efficient" to me, but "efficient" is a word that doesn't actually mean anything without context, which they don't provide.
- varsketiz 2y ago
  Well, it depends on what goals Trump and Musk consider worthwhile. Just hypothetically, if they dont consider healthcare for all a worthwhile goal - possibly every dollar spent on Obamacare is waste from their perspective. I think they will find a lot of waste - question is if people in the USA will agree.
  - tombert 2y ago
    Well that's what I mean, "efficiency" is a term that doesn't mean anything in isolation, and because of that they can define it to mean whatever they want it to mean and declare victory as a result. I also think there might be some shady math going on; they're counting every canceled thing as "savings", but I don't think they're going to count the cost of rehiring the lost workers and redoing these contracts.
    - Majromax 2y ago
      > Well that's what I mean, "efficiency" is a term that doesn't mean anything in isolation, and because of that they can define it to mean whatever they want it to mean and declare victory as a result. Efficiency does have a sensible definition in isolation: an efficient system is one in which there are no more Pareto improvements. From the government perspective, you could consider this in terms of the cost/service frontier, and actions which move the government towards that frontier improve efficiency. However, I do agree with your practical concern that 'efficiency' is being used without regard at all for the services being delivered. This seems particularly likely since the government is attempting to eliminate whole departments or agencies by executive order, implying it gives no value to said services.

Molitor5901 2y ago

I would not leave. Getting into the federal system was hard before, it's going to be near impossible now. For people who are not AI experts, engineers, doctors, etc. the federal government offers pay and benefits unparalleled to anything those same people would find in the private sector. Not to mention the job protections that really don't exist in any other private sector American company.

selectodude 2y ago
What job protections? They’re predicated on the president following the constitution. We’re long, long past that.
pkulak 2y ago
Yes... the job protections.
tombert 2y ago
I feel like that used to be true, but I'm not sure it's been true for the last ~decade or so. My mom works for the federal government as an attorney. She likes her job, but she has mentioned to me that there are just as many layoff rounds, if not more, as you'd get in the private sector. Moreover, there are a lot of things that are kind of bullshit; her office refused to provide paper towels or soap in the kitchen, so she had to spend her own money and bring them in herself. Are soap or paper towels expensive? No, it's not beyond her means, but it's not like most private sector jobs "brag" about having paper towels near the sink, it's usually not considered a "perk". ETA: Just a note, these complaints go back to even the Obama years, I think.
- robocat 2y ago
  I would also worry whether I would receive my pension payouts. Depending upon future governments to pay out for your work investment seems risky. My ignorant impression is that pension funds will always be raided (whether private or government) and payments seem to decrease regardless of past promises.
drewda 2y ago

francisofascii 2y ago

If you wanted to hit a "years of service" number, this may not count towards that.

Jtsummers 2y ago

>> The buyout offer entitles federal employees to stop working more or less immediately and continue to be paid through Sept. 30. Except it doesn't entitle them to stop working. OPM cannot tell workers to stop working or put them on leave. It's up to their agency to determine if they will keep them working or put them on leave. The framing by whoever is in OPM is disingenuous.

normalaccess 2y ago

When you put it that way it does seem like a win win for both sides. The Trump haters get almost a year of paid vacation and the administration gets less internal drama.

ericmcer 2y ago

Pretty standard government worker deal. I am not crying too many tears over government workers facing just a smidge of the uncertainty that everyone else has been living with since Covid. Your salary/promotions/healthcare/retirement are no longer guaranteed by just doing enough to not get fired (which is almost impossible)? Boo hoo, Welcome to the reality that everyone else in the world works in. In tech we are scrabbling for jobs, navigating layoffs, and fighting tooth and nail to prove we create value and justify our salaries. I don't think it is cruel to request "public servants" do the same. 8 months paid would be an insane deal for private industry layoffs. We all just get a sad email and some well wishes.

afavour 2y ago
Most of us in tech also get paid far, far more than anyone in the public sector. It’s always been my perception that the reliability of the job is a perk that makes up for the subpar salaries. I don’t think public sector workers are as spoiled as you make out.
- psychlops 2y ago
  How does your job security and pension compare?
  - edm0nd 2y ago
    I work in private industry (cybersec) and we have a pension + 401k w match. It's great. I dont think I would ever work for the state or federal gov. Their pay sucks.
    - psychlops 2y ago
      Both!? That's unusual, congrats. My point is that the straight pay comparison to a gov employee doesn't count as people go there for the safety and pension. Pensions can really add up the total amount and the spouse collects money as well after the pensioner passes on. To compare to a private job, the actual pay a public employee made per hour of work cannot be known until after the pensioner and spouse are deceased.

giarc 2y ago

I heard that on average 10,000 employees retire every month. So if you had planned to retire in Jan/Feb/Mar, you might as well take the buy out and gain a few extra months of basically "free pay". That is assuming that it actually arrives in your bank account.

Aurornis 2y ago

> if you already happened to be planning on leaving... This is why you should ignore any absolute numbers about people taking the buyout. You want to look at the relative percentage taking the deal compared to their normal turnover. If the number of people taking the "buyout" isn't significantly higher than their normal turnover, that's a sign that they're just overpaying people who were already leaving.

bmitc 2y ago

So in addition to the mockery, they're paying people to do what they were already going to do for free? Small government and low spending indeed ...

squigz 2y ago

Wait hold on - 20,000+ people being paid 8 months severance? That sounds... like a long time, and a lot of money. I'd have a hard time believing that. Any takers around here want to elaborate on their choice?

UltraSane 2y ago

Except that the money hasn't been approved by congress and will probably never be paid because the employees will have absolutely no method of redress it it is not.

credit_guy 2y ago

> Wow, talk about an amazing deal if you already happened to be planning on leaving... What does "planning on leaving" mean? I am personally planning on leaving this year, if a better opportunity shows up. As I was last year. "Planning on leaving" means very little until you have a firm offer in hand. And when you do have that offer, then you are just leaving, not "planning on leaving".

kevmo314 2y ago
Retiring, for example.