7 ms·

not really a coup, its a default. US government is already using pension fund money to pay its bills since early January (aka special measures), the interest on

not really a coup, its a default. US government is already using pension fund money to pay its bills since early January (aka special measures), the interest on their national debt is already more than they collect in taxes.

deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
jimkleiber 2y ago
That has very little if anything to do with the executive branch brazenly disregarding laws.
- tremendoussss 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - jimkleiber 2y ago
    In the first two weeks of taking office? I think it's just my belief that government should be slow and methodical, that the government should be thorough, and coming in and slashing and burning, without seemingly even checking whether they're legally allowed to do it, just seems to be a vengeful fit. I want government to be stable, relatively predictable, and wanting to follow the laws more than any other entity in the country. If the government doesn't respect the law deeply, why would any other organization?
    - tremendoussss 2y ago
      It has to be in the first two weeks, 90%+ of DC voted for Kamala. There's going to be resistance and lack of support. People are going to want to keep their jobs. Layoffs suck but there's not a great way to do them, and the government shouldn't be immune to them. This wasn't a surprise to people following him. People like his head of OMB from his first term was on Tucker talking all about this. They've talked about the legal aspect of things and have prepared. They've had 4 years to prepare for the resistance to change in DC and the law will be used to resist. > If the government doesn't respect the law deeply, why would any other organization? I think this is the biggest issue we have in society. Trump supporters have been screaming that this has already been an issue for decades. The majority of Trump supporters would 100% agree with you. While everyone is pointing their fingers at Trump and calling his supporters conspiracy theorists, we aren't looking at the crimes our corrupt government has committed. There is no trust that our DOJ is on the side of the people and not just another tool of the corrupt establishment. The list of accusations made by Trump supporters is large and damning and absolutely deserve to have their questions answered. The hate and neglect of Trump supporters includes a massive blind eye to evil in DC that's been going on for decades
wholinator2 2y ago
This is what i never understand. Okay, not enough money, soooo _tax more_. Or at least stop giving tax cuts to the richest people in the history of the planet? Like, implement a 5% tax on their wealth, and just fix all the problems. We could have services _and_ rich people, we just have to make insanely rich people contribute to our world like we all do to theirs
- concordDance 2y ago
  > Like, implement a 5% tax on their wealth, and just fix all the problems. My understanding is that's nowhere near enough. The USA deficit is $1.8 Trillion a year with $30T total. The net worth of all USA billionaires is around $4.5T. So 5% would reduce the deficit by 10% until the billionaires wise up and move their wealth out of the country. Even confiscating it all in a one-off pile reduces the national debt by about 15%.
- bildung 2y ago
  It's a strategy, called Starve the Beast. The idea is to collect taxes, which then forces the current government to cut expenditures. The current Trump administration is no difference, this is what all the talk about government bloat is about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast It's pretty clever in its cruelty: Once you have cut taxes, it essentially doesn't matter which party wins the next election: The have to gut expenditures anyway.
  - maleldil 2y ago
    > Once you have cut taxes, it essentially doesn't matter which party wins the next election: The have to gut expenditures anyway See the current Labour government in the UK, who would very much like to spend money on government initiatives but can't because the Tories made sure there was nothing left.
  - mrguyorama 2y ago
    The worst part about it is we already have a playbook to actually reduce the US debt, which we did very well in the 90s. Elect US senators and Representatives to go to the floor and debate about individual programs on CSPAN so people can actually hear arguments about it. This is why, for example, the ISS didn't get cut, but the SSC did. Both were huge science programs that cost tens of billions of dollars and Clinton's administration explicitly wanted to keep both programs but the voting public, through senators and house reps, including democrat members of both forced them to pick only one.
areyousure 2y ago
In case anyone was curious, the interest being paid on the national debt is of the order of $1 trillion per year, while the amount collected in taxes (federally only) is of the order of $5.5 trillion per year.
- DarkmSparks 2y ago
  federally only is about $1.6Trillion, the rest is state taxes and never goes near the federal government to cover the interest on their debt. ($1.8Trillion at a poultry 5% interest)
  - sarchertech 2y ago
    I don’t know where either of you are getting your numbers. The total federal revenue is a bit under $5 trillion and about half of that is income tax. Neither of those numbers include any state revenue or tax.
    - DarkmSparks 2y ago
      dont know where you are getting your numbers. sounds like are confusing revenue and spending. relying on some AI maybe? US collects about $12Trillion in taxes total (30% ish of GDP), under $2trillion of that is given to the federal government for medicare, medicade and the military, they spend more than $5trillion, which is what they spend on medicare, medicade the military and the interest on the $37Trillion debt they have accumulated spending more than they were given by the states for medicare medicade and the military - mostly bank and insurance fund bailouts to prop up the failed US financial system, adding about $3trillion to the federal debt each year, which is why it has gone from $30trillion at the end of 2022, to $37trillion now. Getting downvoted because I do my own research instead of believing the latest gormless chatbot, that's new.
      - wat10000 2y ago
        Receipts: $4.9 trillion: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60843/html https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60843/html Of that, individual income tax was about $2.4 trillion, payroll tax was $1.7 trillion, corporate income tax was $530 billion, and there's about $253 billion of "other."

deleted 2y ago

[deleted]

jimkleiber 2y ago

That has very little if anything to do with the executive branch brazenly disregarding laws.

tremendoussss 2y ago
[flagged]
- jimkleiber 2y ago
  In the first two weeks of taking office? I think it's just my belief that government should be slow and methodical, that the government should be thorough, and coming in and slashing and burning, without seemingly even checking whether they're legally allowed to do it, just seems to be a vengeful fit. I want government to be stable, relatively predictable, and wanting to follow the laws more than any other entity in the country. If the government doesn't respect the law deeply, why would any other organization?
  - tremendoussss 2y ago
    It has to be in the first two weeks, 90%+ of DC voted for Kamala. There's going to be resistance and lack of support. People are going to want to keep their jobs. Layoffs suck but there's not a great way to do them, and the government shouldn't be immune to them. This wasn't a surprise to people following him. People like his head of OMB from his first term was on Tucker talking all about this. They've talked about the legal aspect of things and have prepared. They've had 4 years to prepare for the resistance to change in DC and the law will be used to resist. > If the government doesn't respect the law deeply, why would any other organization? I think this is the biggest issue we have in society. Trump supporters have been screaming that this has already been an issue for decades. The majority of Trump supporters would 100% agree with you. While everyone is pointing their fingers at Trump and calling his supporters conspiracy theorists, we aren't looking at the crimes our corrupt government has committed. There is no trust that our DOJ is on the side of the people and not just another tool of the corrupt establishment. The list of accusations made by Trump supporters is large and damning and absolutely deserve to have their questions answered. The hate and neglect of Trump supporters includes a massive blind eye to evil in DC that's been going on for decades

wholinator2 2y ago

This is what i never understand. Okay, not enough money, soooo _tax more_. Or at least stop giving tax cuts to the richest people in the history of the planet? Like, implement a 5% tax on their wealth, and just fix all the problems. We could have services _and_ rich people, we just have to make insanely rich people contribute to our world like we all do to theirs

concordDance 2y ago
> Like, implement a 5% tax on their wealth, and just fix all the problems. My understanding is that's nowhere near enough. The USA deficit is $1.8 Trillion a year with $30T total. The net worth of all USA billionaires is around $4.5T. So 5% would reduce the deficit by 10% until the billionaires wise up and move their wealth out of the country. Even confiscating it all in a one-off pile reduces the national debt by about 15%.
bildung 2y ago
It's a strategy, called Starve the Beast. The idea is to collect taxes, which then forces the current government to cut expenditures. The current Trump administration is no difference, this is what all the talk about government bloat is about. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starve_the_beast It's pretty clever in its cruelty: Once you have cut taxes, it essentially doesn't matter which party wins the next election: The have to gut expenditures anyway.
- maleldil 2y ago
  > Once you have cut taxes, it essentially doesn't matter which party wins the next election: The have to gut expenditures anyway See the current Labour government in the UK, who would very much like to spend money on government initiatives but can't because the Tories made sure there was nothing left.
- mrguyorama 2y ago
  The worst part about it is we already have a playbook to actually reduce the US debt, which we did very well in the 90s. Elect US senators and Representatives to go to the floor and debate about individual programs on CSPAN so people can actually hear arguments about it. This is why, for example, the ISS didn't get cut, but the SSC did. Both were huge science programs that cost tens of billions of dollars and Clinton's administration explicitly wanted to keep both programs but the voting public, through senators and house reps, including democrat members of both forced them to pick only one.

areyousure 2y ago

In case anyone was curious, the interest being paid on the national debt is of the order of $1 trillion per year, while the amount collected in taxes (federally only) is of the order of $5.5 trillion per year.

DarkmSparks 2y ago
federally only is about $1.6Trillion, the rest is state taxes and never goes near the federal government to cover the interest on their debt. ($1.8Trillion at a poultry 5% interest)
- sarchertech 2y ago
  I don’t know where either of you are getting your numbers. The total federal revenue is a bit under $5 trillion and about half of that is income tax. Neither of those numbers include any state revenue or tax.
  - DarkmSparks 2y ago
    dont know where you are getting your numbers. sounds like are confusing revenue and spending. relying on some AI maybe? US collects about $12Trillion in taxes total (30% ish of GDP), under $2trillion of that is given to the federal government for medicare, medicade and the military, they spend more than $5trillion, which is what they spend on medicare, medicade the military and the interest on the $37Trillion debt they have accumulated spending more than they were given by the states for medicare medicade and the military - mostly bank and insurance fund bailouts to prop up the failed US financial system, adding about $3trillion to the federal debt each year, which is why it has gone from $30trillion at the end of 2022, to $37trillion now. Getting downvoted because I do my own research instead of believing the latest gormless chatbot, that's new.
    - wat10000 2y ago
      Receipts: $4.9 trillion: https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60843/html https://www.cbo.gov/publication/60843/html Of that, individual income tax was about $2.4 trillion, payroll tax was $1.7 trillion, corporate income tax was $530 billion, and there's about $253 billion of "other."