8 ms·

As an expat in the EU, I have a surreal sense of being a bystander at an ongoing emergency scene. I don’t want to be yet another gawker as this situation is unf

by brylie 2y ago

As an expat in the EU, I have a surreal sense of being a bystander at an ongoing emergency scene. I don’t want to be yet another gawker as this situation is unfolding but am struggling to come up with actions that are within my power to take as a form of protest, resistance, or solidarity. What are some practical actions that we can take to resist these sweeping changes?

3D30497420 2y ago
Hope the US gets bad enough that people in the EU notice and decide they don't want to go down the same route? Honestly though, I'm in the same situation and I don't know. I did just start paid subscriptions to several media outlets that have been doing good reporting on the situation (Guardian, Verge). I unsubscribed to the Washington Post after they pulled their Harris endorsement (which was appalling), but their coverage since feels relatively thorough and they are well placed to report on all this so far, so I resubscribed. I already support PBS. I'll probably donate to Pro Publica next. I expect media outlets will be under rapidly increasing pressure, so supporting them financially feels important and positive. I've also have a standing donation to the NAACP legal defense fund from his first administration that I've just kept running. So... money I guess?
- brylie 2y ago
  That makes sense. Time and money are our most effective (and scarce) resources.
  - intended 2y ago
    Time, money and labour. The parties turn on people who show up to do the work. There is a remarkable amount people can achieve if they show up as people who are willing to learn, do the work, and have their own eyes and ears open.
- microtonal 2y ago
  Hope the US gets bad enough that people in the EU notice and decide they don't want to go down the same route? Yeah, same. Since the Brexit a lot of populist parties in the EU don't want to leave the EU anymore (only reform it). Let's hope that this is another warning that the destructive populist path doesn't lead anywhere good. (And I hope that the UK will join the EU again, they are close friends.) I did just start paid subscriptions to several media outlets that have been doing good reporting on the situation (Guardian, Verge). Yeah, independent, non-clickbait news is very important in these times. We recently renewed our newspaper subscription for three years. When you are in the EU (or really anywhere non-US anyway), it's probably a good moment to start moving your data out of the US and away from US companies. So far Trump has done exactly what he promised, so a large trade war or, even worse, a war over Greenland is possible. Since pretty much anything is fair game now, blackmailing the EU using its dependency on US tech companies is not far-fetched anymore. Get your data out and reduce your dependency on US tech.
  - _joel 2y ago
    > (And I hope that the UK will join the EU again, they are close friends.) As a Brit, so do I. However, despite all of the evidence showing it will be massively beneficial, we won't. Not fully, imho, for a good while. Best I'm hoping for is closer ties in a customs union, but that requires compromise I don't think will happen.
- lupusreal 2y ago
  Genuinely curious if you think a WaPo endorsement could have swayed the election, and if not, why it mattered at all. From my perspective, Trump voters distrust and dislike the old media so much, a newspaper telling them they shouldn't vote for Trump would only strengthen their resolve.
  - alxjrvs 2y ago
    Not the poster, but I don't think a newspaper pulling an endorsement out of fear of reprisal is a great sign of a free press (or, to the poster's point, a press you care to pay for.)
    - lupusreal 2y ago
      I don't think Bezos fears anybody. He's too rich for that. And the WaPo management fears Bezos, not Trump.
      - ceejayoz 2y ago
        > I don't think Bezos fears anybody. He's too rich for that. No one's too rich to get shot by the world's largest superpower. Zuckerberg didn't do a giant public 180 for funsies.
        lupusreal 2y ago
        It is far more likely that Bezos and Zuckerberg support Trump than fear being shot. Zuckerberg particularly, what makes you think this was a 180? The man has been doing machismo stuff like throwing spears at goats and challenging people to boxing matches for years. And have you seen the way Facebook is moderated, even years ago relative to the way Twitter was moderated under their old owners? Supporting Trump is in-character for Zuckerberg, even more so than Bezos. I must say though, this "billionaires as terrified victims" narrative is hilarious. I hope the Democratic party rescues these poor billionaires from the man they're publicly supporting!
        2y ago
- williamdclt 2y ago
  > Hope the US gets bad enough that people in the EU notice and decide they don't want to go down the same route? I really hope so too. My pessimist side fears that the powerful are observing the US, seeing that it works there and will do the same thing here.
belter 2y ago
No Tesla, no Starlink, no Twitter. Easy, and very effective.
- brylie 2y ago
  I deleted my Twitter account after a period of ghost-quitting that platform. However, this action doesn't seem all that significant, so I'm hopeful I can use my energy more effectively. Meanwhile, increasing my focus on my immediate community and sharing my creativity are fulfilling activities within my power.
CalRobert 2y ago
Similar (moved to the EU 12 years ago) The best thing I can think of is to make the EU a strong, powerful, wealthy democracy that can defend itself from invasion and try to encourage other democracies around the world. Which means we have a lot of work ahead, to put it mildly.
- preisschild 2y ago
  For that to work, the individual governments need to give more of their responsibilities up to the EU level, which is unfortunately somewhat unpopular.
  - ivan_gammel 2y ago
    It may be unpopular but Volt is increasing its presence on all levels from local councils to European Parliament, so there’s a desire among some voters for more EU federalism. In Germany they may come close to the results of FDP on the upcoming elections.
    - preisschild 2y ago
      Fortunately in my country of Austria the liberal party (NEOS from the EU Renew Europe faction) already supports a "United States of Europe", but it "only" has around ~10% at the moment (though it is growing). But the new government of pro-russian neonazis (FPÖ) and conservatives (ÖVP) will probably be very anti-EU.
  - jampekka 2y ago
    Democratic and EU unfortunately doesn't mesh that well. In the current form federal EU would be someting like having an unelected powerful executive branch, and a semi-elected weak legistlative branch. Furthermore the populace has very little idea about what is happening in the EU and who to hold accountable, partly because the media doesn't cover it, and partly because the processes are extremely convoluted and quite opaque. Such "democratic centralism" bureaucracy probably would have benefits like more stability for long term strategy, swift execution of policies and coordinated action, but it's also very prone to corruption and elite capture.
MandieD 2y ago
If you're in Germany or know some Germans, talk as much as you can about how this is what Musk wants to do via the AfD to us here. The election is a little over two weeks away. Right now, the CDU/CSU ("normal" conservatives) look to be getting the largest number of votes, but nowhere near enough to govern on their own. They've been a little too flirty with the AfD (currently in second place), and the worst thing that could happen is that they forget what they learned in school about what happened to the centrist and conservative parties in the early 1930s, and take the AfD as their coalition partner instead of trying to work something out with the SPD and Greens. There's a reason that Germany's current main center-right parties were both born after the war.
- taheG 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - modo_mario 2y ago
    >Schroeder all stood up for Germany You mean Gerhard Schröder? Didn't he end up on the board of Gazprom as a sellout?
    - skrebbel 2y ago
      It's a Russian troll account, no use responding
      - throway12312 2y ago
        People respond in the voting booth, just like in the US. But by all means, continue that strategy.
    - throway12312 2y ago
      Yes, he sold out after he left office and was criticized for it heavily. Earlier he stood up to the US criticizing the second Iraq war. (Most of Europe, including Britain, got gas via Nordstream and its distribution network. France and The Netherlands also owned part of it but are never criticized.)
intended 2y ago
I have a suggestion - at least one of several, which is to understand why we got here. The fact that this is escalating since cable TV, Murdoch, and the internet is not a coincidences. Democracies globally are facing a similar problem, which is an abuse of a core democractic principle: Free speech. Free speech is often valued in and of itself. However, free speech in itself is only a tool that serves a greater purpose, which is to enable the search for truth. Free speech is the goal of exchanging ideas between peoples, to foster competition in thought so that collectively we can understand our shared reality. If such a market place were to become inefficient, or if such a market place were to resolve itself to serve the most attention grabbing takes, we would see much of what the media carries. THIS ISNT the problem you face! This is the problem we discuss! The problem is when someone combines the media with a political party. The media itself has no recourse but to play the game of advertizing to survive. But once it is in service of an entity, then you can create your own justifications for war, and then declare victory yourselves. This makes the most mercenary of politics the most succesful. It is the natural recourse of people who want to win at all costs. It is far more efficient than doing economic research to understand the pros and cons of a decision. We can solve the problems we all mutuall face. There is more to life than our polarization. However, if we are pulled between two magnets, and our goal is to not be pulled apart - then the magnets need to be addresed.
- lisp2240 2y ago
  The problem is, in America, both magnets pull to the right. We have a far right republican party and a center right democratic party. There is no leftwing party to provide balance. There’s not a single democrat who would be considered a leftist outside America.
  - intended 2y ago
    One magnet is the media, the other magnet is an orwellian party/media firm. Also - this used to be hacker news. As in who gives a shit about what is, its about what needs to change. Think of it this way - this is just a puzzle that needs to be cracked. Take it as a job application problem, and see how it can be dissected over the weekend. Come up with some theories, then go see if you can disprove them. Fixing anything, comes from defining the right problem anyway.
api 2y ago
People in the EU need to pay attention and think hard before voting for similar candidates and parties. This is a global phenomenon. It’s part grassroots, driven by discontent with sclerotic establishment parties that are not solving problems, but also being driven by propaganda from authoritarian countries like Russia and China. The latter is opportunistic.
nanoyster 2y ago
[dead]
verzali 2y ago
Americans voted for this and I find it very hard to believe they didn't know what they were voting for. So that's on them. Personally, I am working on replacing any American made products or services I use myself or through my job. Both as an act of protest and in preparation for the upcoming economic war they plan to wage.

by brylie 2y ago

3D30497420 2y ago

Hope the US gets bad enough that people in the EU notice and decide they don't want to go down the same route? Honestly though, I'm in the same situation and I don't know. I did just start paid subscriptions to several media outlets that have been doing good reporting on the situation (Guardian, Verge). I unsubscribed to the Washington Post after they pulled their Harris endorsement (which was appalling), but their coverage since feels relatively thorough and they are well placed to report on all this so far, so I resubscribed. I already support PBS. I'll probably donate to Pro Publica next. I expect media outlets will be under rapidly increasing pressure, so supporting them financially feels important and positive. I've also have a standing donation to the NAACP legal defense fund from his first administration that I've just kept running. So... money I guess?

brylie 2y ago
That makes sense. Time and money are our most effective (and scarce) resources.
- intended 2y ago
  Time, money and labour. The parties turn on people who show up to do the work. There is a remarkable amount people can achieve if they show up as people who are willing to learn, do the work, and have their own eyes and ears open.
microtonal 2y ago
Hope the US gets bad enough that people in the EU notice and decide they don't want to go down the same route? Yeah, same. Since the Brexit a lot of populist parties in the EU don't want to leave the EU anymore (only reform it). Let's hope that this is another warning that the destructive populist path doesn't lead anywhere good. (And I hope that the UK will join the EU again, they are close friends.) I did just start paid subscriptions to several media outlets that have been doing good reporting on the situation (Guardian, Verge). Yeah, independent, non-clickbait news is very important in these times. We recently renewed our newspaper subscription for three years. When you are in the EU (or really anywhere non-US anyway), it's probably a good moment to start moving your data out of the US and away from US companies. So far Trump has done exactly what he promised, so a large trade war or, even worse, a war over Greenland is possible. Since pretty much anything is fair game now, blackmailing the EU using its dependency on US tech companies is not far-fetched anymore. Get your data out and reduce your dependency on US tech.
- _joel 2y ago
  > (And I hope that the UK will join the EU again, they are close friends.) As a Brit, so do I. However, despite all of the evidence showing it will be massively beneficial, we won't. Not fully, imho, for a good while. Best I'm hoping for is closer ties in a customs union, but that requires compromise I don't think will happen.
lupusreal 2y ago
Genuinely curious if you think a WaPo endorsement could have swayed the election, and if not, why it mattered at all. From my perspective, Trump voters distrust and dislike the old media so much, a newspaper telling them they shouldn't vote for Trump would only strengthen their resolve.
- alxjrvs 2y ago
  Not the poster, but I don't think a newspaper pulling an endorsement out of fear of reprisal is a great sign of a free press (or, to the poster's point, a press you care to pay for.)
  - lupusreal 2y ago
    I don't think Bezos fears anybody. He's too rich for that. And the WaPo management fears Bezos, not Trump.
    - ceejayoz 2y ago
      > I don't think Bezos fears anybody. He's too rich for that. No one's too rich to get shot by the world's largest superpower. Zuckerberg didn't do a giant public 180 for funsies.
      - lupusreal 2y ago
        It is far more likely that Bezos and Zuckerberg support Trump than fear being shot. Zuckerberg particularly, what makes you think this was a 180? The man has been doing machismo stuff like throwing spears at goats and challenging people to boxing matches for years. And have you seen the way Facebook is moderated, even years ago relative to the way Twitter was moderated under their old owners? Supporting Trump is in-character for Zuckerberg, even more so than Bezos. I must say though, this "billionaires as terrified victims" narrative is hilarious. I hope the Democratic party rescues these poor billionaires from the man they're publicly supporting!
        2y ago
williamdclt 2y ago
> Hope the US gets bad enough that people in the EU notice and decide they don't want to go down the same route? I really hope so too. My pessimist side fears that the powerful are observing the US, seeing that it works there and will do the same thing here.

belter 2y ago

No Tesla, no Starlink, no Twitter. Easy, and very effective.

brylie 2y ago
I deleted my Twitter account after a period of ghost-quitting that platform. However, this action doesn't seem all that significant, so I'm hopeful I can use my energy more effectively. Meanwhile, increasing my focus on my immediate community and sharing my creativity are fulfilling activities within my power.

CalRobert 2y ago

Similar (moved to the EU 12 years ago) The best thing I can think of is to make the EU a strong, powerful, wealthy democracy that can defend itself from invasion and try to encourage other democracies around the world. Which means we have a lot of work ahead, to put it mildly.

preisschild 2y ago
For that to work, the individual governments need to give more of their responsibilities up to the EU level, which is unfortunately somewhat unpopular.
- ivan_gammel 2y ago
  It may be unpopular but Volt is increasing its presence on all levels from local councils to European Parliament, so there’s a desire among some voters for more EU federalism. In Germany they may come close to the results of FDP on the upcoming elections.
  - preisschild 2y ago
    Fortunately in my country of Austria the liberal party (NEOS from the EU Renew Europe faction) already supports a "United States of Europe", but it "only" has around ~10% at the moment (though it is growing). But the new government of pro-russian neonazis (FPÖ) and conservatives (ÖVP) will probably be very anti-EU.
- jampekka 2y ago
  Democratic and EU unfortunately doesn't mesh that well. In the current form federal EU would be someting like having an unelected powerful executive branch, and a semi-elected weak legistlative branch. Furthermore the populace has very little idea about what is happening in the EU and who to hold accountable, partly because the media doesn't cover it, and partly because the processes are extremely convoluted and quite opaque. Such "democratic centralism" bureaucracy probably would have benefits like more stability for long term strategy, swift execution of policies and coordinated action, but it's also very prone to corruption and elite capture.

MandieD 2y ago

If you're in Germany or know some Germans, talk as much as you can about how this is what Musk wants to do via the AfD to us here. The election is a little over two weeks away. Right now, the CDU/CSU ("normal" conservatives) look to be getting the largest number of votes, but nowhere near enough to govern on their own. They've been a little too flirty with the AfD (currently in second place), and the worst thing that could happen is that they forget what they learned in school about what happened to the centrist and conservative parties in the early 1930s, and take the AfD as their coalition partner instead of trying to work something out with the SPD and Greens. There's a reason that Germany's current main center-right parties were both born after the war.

taheG 2y ago
[flagged]
- modo_mario 2y ago
  >Schroeder all stood up for Germany You mean Gerhard Schröder? Didn't he end up on the board of Gazprom as a sellout?
  - skrebbel 2y ago
    It's a Russian troll account, no use responding
    - throway12312 2y ago
      People respond in the voting booth, just like in the US. But by all means, continue that strategy.
  - throway12312 2y ago
    Yes, he sold out after he left office and was criticized for it heavily. Earlier he stood up to the US criticizing the second Iraq war. (Most of Europe, including Britain, got gas via Nordstream and its distribution network. France and The Netherlands also owned part of it but are never criticized.)

intended 2y ago

I have a suggestion - at least one of several, which is to understand why we got here. The fact that this is escalating since cable TV, Murdoch, and the internet is not a coincidences. Democracies globally are facing a similar problem, which is an abuse of a core democractic principle: Free speech. Free speech is often valued in and of itself. However, free speech in itself is only a tool that serves a greater purpose, which is to enable the search for truth. Free speech is the goal of exchanging ideas between peoples, to foster competition in thought so that collectively we can understand our shared reality. If such a market place were to become inefficient, or if such a market place were to resolve itself to serve the most attention grabbing takes, we would see much of what the media carries. THIS ISNT the problem you face! This is the problem we discuss! The problem is when someone combines the media with a political party. The media itself has no recourse but to play the game of advertizing to survive. But once it is in service of an entity, then you can create your own justifications for war, and then declare victory yourselves. This makes the most mercenary of politics the most succesful. It is the natural recourse of people who want to win at all costs. It is far more efficient than doing economic research to understand the pros and cons of a decision. We can solve the problems we all mutuall face. There is more to life than our polarization. However, if we are pulled between two magnets, and our goal is to not be pulled apart - then the magnets need to be addresed.

lisp2240 2y ago
The problem is, in America, both magnets pull to the right. We have a far right republican party and a center right democratic party. There is no leftwing party to provide balance. There’s not a single democrat who would be considered a leftist outside America.
- intended 2y ago
  One magnet is the media, the other magnet is an orwellian party/media firm. Also - this used to be hacker news. As in who gives a shit about what is, its about what needs to change. Think of it this way - this is just a puzzle that needs to be cracked. Take it as a job application problem, and see how it can be dissected over the weekend. Come up with some theories, then go see if you can disprove them. Fixing anything, comes from defining the right problem anyway.

api 2y ago

People in the EU need to pay attention and think hard before voting for similar candidates and parties. This is a global phenomenon. It’s part grassroots, driven by discontent with sclerotic establishment parties that are not solving problems, but also being driven by propaganda from authoritarian countries like Russia and China. The latter is opportunistic.

nanoyster 2y ago

[dead]

verzali 2y ago

Americans voted for this and I find it very hard to believe they didn't know what they were voting for. So that's on them. Personally, I am working on replacing any American made products or services I use myself or through my job. Both as an act of protest and in preparation for the upcoming economic war they plan to wage.