4 ms·

The stated purpose of the tariffs is to stop the flow of fentanyl into the US (which kills over 70k Americans a year). If the economic hurt this causes to China

The stated purpose of the tariffs is to stop the flow of fentanyl into the US (which kills over 70k Americans a year). If the economic hurt this causes to China is enough to drastically reduce the flow of fentanyl into the US then I suppose it will have accomplished its mission

Saris 2y ago
This is a genuine question because I don't know, how do tariffs stop illegal drugs from coming in?
- icegreentea2 2y ago
  a) You could try to use tariff's to apply pressure to the other country to get them to apply more enforcement. b) For the specific case of removal de minimis exceptions, this could reduce shipping volume (in terms of number of individual shipments), making inspection easier/more tractable.
- sky_rw 2y ago
  Ok I'll bite. The de minimus rule allows any import valued under $800 to enter the USA duty free. Chinese drop shipping companies and others leverage this rule to ship millions of packages direct to consumer. Many Chinese companies split a large freight shipments into dozens of smaller shipments to avoid paying duty fees. My understanding is, trade war stuff aside, the effect this has on customs is to overwhelm their intake facilities with small packages, thus allowing shipments of narcotics and illicit goods to make it through without much chance of getting caught. The idea is that removing this rule will force shippers to bulk ship freight and allow customs to better inspect smaller shipments.
  - reaperman 2y ago
    Wouldn't the bulk freight still be largely un-inspected? Seems like a lot of logistics companies will just offer a lot of LTL where packages will go inside shipping containers and then get reshipped via USPS after getting sorted at the private logistics warehouse near the port. The containers will take longer to get here via ship, and everything will have to be marked with an invoice for some kind of tariff, but I don't know what else will really change.
- HideousKojima 2y ago
  By conditioning the lifting of the tariffs on China stopping the fentanyl, it's really not that complicated
  - Saris 2y ago
    Gotcha, that makes sense.
mcphage 2y ago
> If the economic hurt this causes to China is enough to drastically reduce the flow of fentanyl into the US What if the economic hurt this causes to China drastically increases the flow of fentanyl in the US?
- HideousKojima 2y ago
  Then block all trade outright with China if they show themselves willing to be so openly belligerent.
  - jncfhnb 2y ago
    That seems unlikely
  - reaperman 2y ago
    Ahahahahahahahahahahaha. As someone who works in manufacturing in the USA - we can't keep our domestic factories running, or build new ones, without trade with China. We also can't keep our hospitals running, manufacture vehicles, or a million other things without Chinese components/tools/materials.
  - mcphage 2y ago
    > if they show themselves willing to be so openly belligerent Why would they need to be open about it? But also: the time to do that was 30 years ago.
  - maxerickson 2y ago
    Pointing the gun, telling the others to drink the kool-aid.
  - seanmcdirmid 2y ago
    Illegal fentanyl is already legally blocked, but somehow still gets in. This is like making drug smuggling illegal, yes, we can do that, we do that, but for some reason the drugs are still smuggled in.
01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago
I don't believe the stated purpose of the tariffs because the stated purpose (or lack thereof) from all the other new policies are nonsense
tzs 2y ago
Actually a White House spokesman said it has killed "tens of millions of Americans" [1]. They didn't say over what timeframe, but it has only been around 65 years so would have to have killed on average over 150k per year just to reach 10 million. OD deaths have also been plummeting since mid 2023, after rising greatly during the last half of Trump's first term, and to a lesser extent during the first half of Biden's. [1] https://www.npr.org/2025/02/02/nx-s1-5283957/fentanyl-trump-tariffs-china-canada-mexico https://www.npr.org/2025/02/02/nx-s1-5283957/fentanyl-trump-...

Saris 2y ago

This is a genuine question because I don't know, how do tariffs stop illegal drugs from coming in?

icegreentea2 2y ago
a) You could try to use tariff's to apply pressure to the other country to get them to apply more enforcement. b) For the specific case of removal de minimis exceptions, this could reduce shipping volume (in terms of number of individual shipments), making inspection easier/more tractable.
sky_rw 2y ago
Ok I'll bite. The de minimus rule allows any import valued under $800 to enter the USA duty free. Chinese drop shipping companies and others leverage this rule to ship millions of packages direct to consumer. Many Chinese companies split a large freight shipments into dozens of smaller shipments to avoid paying duty fees. My understanding is, trade war stuff aside, the effect this has on customs is to overwhelm their intake facilities with small packages, thus allowing shipments of narcotics and illicit goods to make it through without much chance of getting caught. The idea is that removing this rule will force shippers to bulk ship freight and allow customs to better inspect smaller shipments.
- reaperman 2y ago
  Wouldn't the bulk freight still be largely un-inspected? Seems like a lot of logistics companies will just offer a lot of LTL where packages will go inside shipping containers and then get reshipped via USPS after getting sorted at the private logistics warehouse near the port. The containers will take longer to get here via ship, and everything will have to be marked with an invoice for some kind of tariff, but I don't know what else will really change.
HideousKojima 2y ago
By conditioning the lifting of the tariffs on China stopping the fentanyl, it's really not that complicated
- Saris 2y ago
  Gotcha, that makes sense.

mcphage 2y ago

> If the economic hurt this causes to China is enough to drastically reduce the flow of fentanyl into the US What if the economic hurt this causes to China drastically increases the flow of fentanyl in the US?

HideousKojima 2y ago
Then block all trade outright with China if they show themselves willing to be so openly belligerent.
- jncfhnb 2y ago
  That seems unlikely
- reaperman 2y ago
  Ahahahahahahahahahahaha. As someone who works in manufacturing in the USA - we can't keep our domestic factories running, or build new ones, without trade with China. We also can't keep our hospitals running, manufacture vehicles, or a million other things without Chinese components/tools/materials.
- mcphage 2y ago
  > if they show themselves willing to be so openly belligerent Why would they need to be open about it? But also: the time to do that was 30 years ago.
- maxerickson 2y ago
  Pointing the gun, telling the others to drink the kool-aid.
- seanmcdirmid 2y ago
  Illegal fentanyl is already legally blocked, but somehow still gets in. This is like making drug smuggling illegal, yes, we can do that, we do that, but for some reason the drugs are still smuggled in.

01HNNWZ0MV43FF 2y ago

I don't believe the stated purpose of the tariffs because the stated purpose (or lack thereof) from all the other new policies are nonsense

tzs 2y ago

Actually a White House spokesman said it has killed "tens of millions of Americans" [1]. They didn't say over what timeframe, but it has only been around 65 years so would have to have killed on average over 150k per year just to reach 10 million. OD deaths have also been plummeting since mid 2023, after rising greatly during the last half of Trump's first term, and to a lesser extent during the first half of Biden's. [1] https://www.npr.org/2025/02/02/nx-s1-5283957/fentanyl-trump-tariffs-china-canada-mexico https://www.npr.org/2025/02/02/nx-s1-5283957/fentanyl-trump-...