9 ms·

Just a tip but sometimes it’s good to read the article before commenting. The app allows iPhone users to create an event. Anybody on any device or browser can

Just a tip but sometimes it’s good to read the article before commenting. The app allows iPhone users to create an event. Anybody on any device or browser can RSVP. The event can be shared as a link. Making an event invite app that only works for users on one platform would be pointless. Also - non-Apple users have been able to join FaceTime calls via. A link for several years.

outcoldman 2y ago
Yes, but. Most of the invited folks might have an AppleID associated with their email, that they have not used for years. And invite will ask to enter the password if you have an AppleID associated.
- kesava 2y ago
  The tussle between usability and security.
- paulcole 2y ago
  Yes, but. I was hoping to express my displeasure with Apple.
- NotYourLawyer 2y ago
  This is a made up problem with a trivial solution.
paulryanrogers 2y ago
> Also - non-Apple users have been able to join FaceTime calls via. A link for several years. Is the quality the same or even close? Is it easy and obvious how to share such links?
- newsclues 2y ago
  https://support.apple.com/en-ca/109364 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/109364
- codetrotter 2y ago
  > Is it easy and obvious how to share such links? I barely ever FaceTime anyone. Just now after reading your comment I opened the FaceTime app. It has two big buttons: - Create Link - New FaceTime And it showed a balloon tip under create link that said: “Invite Anyone to a Call Friends with Android and Windows devices can join a FaceTime call if you share a link.” So yes, seems they actually made it about as obvious as it can be. Maybe even more.
  - fooblaster 2y ago
    nothing quite like the perspective of someone from within the walled garden
    - lttlrck 2y ago
      It's the first button when you open FaceTime. Is that also too subjective?
      - fooblaster 2y ago
        the experience from the opposite side is the relevant part here. I recall the many years I was sent iMessages but unable to remove my phone number so that I could receive sms messages on my new android phone. The user experience from iOS phones sending me messages I would never receive was "great".
        dagmx 2y ago
        Over those many years you didn’t bother to google that you can just turn it off online? https://support.apple.com/en-ca/102455 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/102455
        fooblaster 2y ago
        It was extremely difficult to disable for a long time before it was made easy to turn it off on a website.
somethingsidont 2y ago
"With Apple Invites, users can create and easily share invitations, RSVP, contribute to Shared Albums, and engage with Apple Music playlists." Correct me if I'm wrong: - create & share invitations: must have iCloud+ - iCloud shared albums: barebones upload/download on non-Apple devices - apple music: cross-platform, must be subscribed - RSVP: cross-platform (Apple account req'd) So yes, it "works" outside the Apple ecosystem, but missing features to encourage lock-in.
- brailsafe 2y ago
  The only problem I have with this, as an android user, is that there's probably no API available for someone to build an integration for other platforms if the market was there. I don't expect Apple to go and create cross platform clients for every service they put out, they're not a service first company, they're an Apple service first company.
  - bloggie 2y ago
    Pull requests welcome.
    - worthless-trash 2y ago
      [Citation needed]
    - igor47 2y ago
      Can you direct me to where I can make pull requests to unlock Apple's walled garden?
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    That's a big problem though. They're targeting a class of use cases currently covered by iCalendar family of open protocols[0] and handled by every calendar and e-mail app there is. Because of their narrowed focus on features most relevant to individuals, families and groups of friends, they'll be able to deliver a superior experience there for people on their platform - and they have both enough users and the correct placement in the "tech stack" (unlike e.g. Facebook/Meta or other social platforms, that already tried and failed to pull it off) to break universality of iCal for everyone else. If this sticks, it won't only screw you or me over as Android users with Apple users in our friends groups. This will quickly bubble up from friend gatherings to community groups and local services businesses. At some point, you'll find that your kids' kindergarten or your stylist or even your doctor starts sending you Apple Invites instead of e-mail invites (.ics), because the Apple variant also comes with a shared photo album. It's actually surprising when you notice just how many appointments could use a shared photo and/or document collection directly linked to them - that part is actually a good idea from Apple. It's just sad that they're weaponizing it instead of improving what already works for everyone. -- [0] - https://icalendar.org/RFC-Specifications/all/ https://icalendar.org/RFC-Specifications/all/
yapyap 2y ago
Tbf imessage also allows people to message non iOS users but apparently the ‘color of the bubble’ has been a big thing in the U.S. among youth.
- calmworm 2y ago
  The color of the bubble is, at least partially, a security feature for me. When it’s blue, I am certain there is a person on the other end, not a bot, spammer, ai, etc…
  - pishpash 2y ago
    Except it guarantees nothing of the sort.
    - borski 2y ago
      Say more.
      - notpushkin 2y ago
        There are ways to send iMessages programmatically. Apple does check for spam, but it’s not foolproof. And of course, it won’t help you against a targeted attack.
        borski 2y ago
        https://support.apple.com/en-us/118246 https://support.apple.com/en-us/118246
        Rohansi 2y ago
        How exactly does any of this prevent people from sending spam to you?
        dwaite 2y ago
        I can count the total automated iMessage spams I've received on one hand. I can't do that with automated SMS spam I received in the last 24 hours. So yes, not foolproof.
esolyt 2y ago
There is no indication they haven't read the article. This product, much like iMessage and others, provides an inferior experience to non-Apple users. It aims to make other devices and operating systems look less capable and cheap. iMessage also partially works with other phones. This doesn't change the fact that its intention is to create a lock-in effect, as evidenced by internal Apple emails.
- adrr 2y ago
  How so? It just sends a link either in a message or email. Acceptance is done via a web page. How do online invitations ensure vendor lock in? What will prevent me from using another online invite system in the future? I’ve used a bunch in past like evite, paperless post and the cost to switch is nothing.
  - ejoso 2y ago
    It is a degraded experience. Not as smooth as being on iOS. It’s a common playbook used by Apple (as well as MS and others) in an attempt to get and retain users.
    - mjamil 2y ago
      Why would the stewards of a walled garden want other gardens (walled or otherwise) be as good as theirs? What moral or economic imperative exists for such a belief? Why is that bad?
      - TeMPOraL 2y ago
        > Why would the stewards of a walled garden want other gardens (walled or otherwise) be as good as theirs? What moral (...) imperative exists for such a belief? Not being an asshole? It's normal instinct unless one's brain has been thoroughly eaten by competitiveness. > Why is that bad? Because in this, Apple is attacking the commons. They're trying to provide an alternative to normal invite system - one that's been established and battle-tested over decades, one that works okay-ish across any device, real or virtual, on any platform, and one that people know how to use. An alternative that gives some bells and whistles exclusively to the Apple users, and perhaps even is more ergonomic in practice. An alternative that overlaps with the commons just enough to perhaps get the significant chunk of Apple-first userbase to switch over, but purposefully doesn't overlap enough to work well for non-Apple users (as well as professional users). Take commons, drive a wedge down the side, use it as lever for your massive userbase to push everyone else off it. Screw everyone else. Hell, even screw your own users too for having Android users (or Windows or Linux desktop users!) among family and friends. The next generation of users should remember that thou shalt only befriend and marry people from within your corporate community.
viraptor 2y ago
Yet, there's nothing iPhone specific about this idea. They didn't have to limit it in the way they did. In the future they can change the approach too and both remove and restrict features, because they will always go iPhone-first. Being able to use this in a restricted way today is just that. I share the "apple (and any corp)-first solution should fail" hope.
- JohnBooty 2y ago
  In the future they can change the approach too and both remove and restrict features Unlike a lot of product categories... I don't really see a strong lock-in factor here? Example: If you are heavily invested in Apple Music or Spotify, there's a lot of momentum there to keep you from switching. All your stuff is there (songs, favorites, playlists) and it would take a lot of time to re-find it on the other service, if it even exists there. And streaming services like Netflix lock you in with constant reams of new content. But what would be keeping me on some particular invite service? If I used Apple Invites for my last party two months ago... but I have decided that Apple Invites sucks now... I really don't see a lot of friction keeping me from switching away? The inconvenience would not be zero but seems minor.
  - viraptor 2y ago
    You can switch. But now you also need to convince a random person that they should switch, because you can't easily use what they're using. And you may be the only one out of 10 people in the group complaining about it. Instead of their technical problem, Apple can make it a "you" social problem.
    - lloeki 2y ago
      Still valid for: s/Apple Invites/Meta Messenger groups/ s/Apple Invites/Facebook events/ s/Apple Invites/WhatsApp groups/ s/Apple Invites/Telegram groups s/Apple Invites/doodle.com/ These are the things people use around here to organise events. Four of those require a persistent account and an app, three of those are Meta for which I'm the loner yelling that I won't touch them with a 10 yard pole and a hazmat suit. What are you proposing instead? That these should all be decentralised/federated? SMS/RCS? Matrix? email? ICS?
wodenokoto 2y ago
> Making an event invite app that only works for users on one platform would be pointless. Worked really, really well for Facebook for about a decade or so. > Also - non-Apple users have been able to join FaceTime calls via. A link for several years. I had no idea! TIL!
pbreit 2y ago
Your "tips" don't really address the OP's post.
lordofgibbons 2y ago
Sometimes it's also good to stop worshiping trillion dollar companies who abuse their market dominance. While tech-literate Apple users couldn't tell the difference, their images and videos were sent in potato quality to non-Apple devices. So while technically, they could communicate with non-Apple users, it was a bad experience for anyone not in "walled garden". p.s Not taking features put out by Apple at face-value doesn't mean I didn't read the article.

outcoldman 2y ago

Yes, but. Most of the invited folks might have an AppleID associated with their email, that they have not used for years. And invite will ask to enter the password if you have an AppleID associated.

kesava 2y ago
The tussle between usability and security.
paulcole 2y ago
Yes, but. I was hoping to express my displeasure with Apple.
NotYourLawyer 2y ago
This is a made up problem with a trivial solution.

paulryanrogers 2y ago

> Also - non-Apple users have been able to join FaceTime calls via. A link for several years. Is the quality the same or even close? Is it easy and obvious how to share such links?

newsclues 2y ago
https://support.apple.com/en-ca/109364 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/109364
codetrotter 2y ago
> Is it easy and obvious how to share such links? I barely ever FaceTime anyone. Just now after reading your comment I opened the FaceTime app. It has two big buttons: - Create Link - New FaceTime And it showed a balloon tip under create link that said: “Invite Anyone to a Call Friends with Android and Windows devices can join a FaceTime call if you share a link.” So yes, seems they actually made it about as obvious as it can be. Maybe even more.
- fooblaster 2y ago
  nothing quite like the perspective of someone from within the walled garden
  - lttlrck 2y ago
    It's the first button when you open FaceTime. Is that also too subjective?
    - fooblaster 2y ago
      the experience from the opposite side is the relevant part here. I recall the many years I was sent iMessages but unable to remove my phone number so that I could receive sms messages on my new android phone. The user experience from iOS phones sending me messages I would never receive was "great".
      - dagmx 2y ago
        Over those many years you didn’t bother to google that you can just turn it off online? https://support.apple.com/en-ca/102455 https://support.apple.com/en-ca/102455
        fooblaster 2y ago
        It was extremely difficult to disable for a long time before it was made easy to turn it off on a website.

somethingsidont 2y ago

"With Apple Invites, users can create and easily share invitations, RSVP, contribute to Shared Albums, and engage with Apple Music playlists." Correct me if I'm wrong: - create & share invitations: must have iCloud+ - iCloud shared albums: barebones upload/download on non-Apple devices - apple music: cross-platform, must be subscribed - RSVP: cross-platform (Apple account req'd) So yes, it "works" outside the Apple ecosystem, but missing features to encourage lock-in.

brailsafe 2y ago
The only problem I have with this, as an android user, is that there's probably no API available for someone to build an integration for other platforms if the market was there. I don't expect Apple to go and create cross platform clients for every service they put out, they're not a service first company, they're an Apple service first company.
- bloggie 2y ago
  Pull requests welcome.
  - worthless-trash 2y ago
    [Citation needed]
  - igor47 2y ago
    Can you direct me to where I can make pull requests to unlock Apple's walled garden?
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  That's a big problem though. They're targeting a class of use cases currently covered by iCalendar family of open protocols[0] and handled by every calendar and e-mail app there is. Because of their narrowed focus on features most relevant to individuals, families and groups of friends, they'll be able to deliver a superior experience there for people on their platform - and they have both enough users and the correct placement in the "tech stack" (unlike e.g. Facebook/Meta or other social platforms, that already tried and failed to pull it off) to break universality of iCal for everyone else. If this sticks, it won't only screw you or me over as Android users with Apple users in our friends groups. This will quickly bubble up from friend gatherings to community groups and local services businesses. At some point, you'll find that your kids' kindergarten or your stylist or even your doctor starts sending you Apple Invites instead of e-mail invites (.ics), because the Apple variant also comes with a shared photo album. It's actually surprising when you notice just how many appointments could use a shared photo and/or document collection directly linked to them - that part is actually a good idea from Apple. It's just sad that they're weaponizing it instead of improving what already works for everyone. -- [0] - https://icalendar.org/RFC-Specifications/all/ https://icalendar.org/RFC-Specifications/all/

yapyap 2y ago

Tbf imessage also allows people to message non iOS users but apparently the ‘color of the bubble’ has been a big thing in the U.S. among youth.

calmworm 2y ago
The color of the bubble is, at least partially, a security feature for me. When it’s blue, I am certain there is a person on the other end, not a bot, spammer, ai, etc…
- pishpash 2y ago
  Except it guarantees nothing of the sort.
  - borski 2y ago
    Say more.
    - notpushkin 2y ago
      There are ways to send iMessages programmatically. Apple does check for spam, but it’s not foolproof. And of course, it won’t help you against a targeted attack.
      - borski 2y ago
        https://support.apple.com/en-us/118246 https://support.apple.com/en-us/118246
        Rohansi 2y ago
        How exactly does any of this prevent people from sending spam to you?
      - dwaite 2y ago
        I can count the total automated iMessage spams I've received on one hand. I can't do that with automated SMS spam I received in the last 24 hours. So yes, not foolproof.

esolyt 2y ago

There is no indication they haven't read the article. This product, much like iMessage and others, provides an inferior experience to non-Apple users. It aims to make other devices and operating systems look less capable and cheap. iMessage also partially works with other phones. This doesn't change the fact that its intention is to create a lock-in effect, as evidenced by internal Apple emails.

adrr 2y ago
How so? It just sends a link either in a message or email. Acceptance is done via a web page. How do online invitations ensure vendor lock in? What will prevent me from using another online invite system in the future? I’ve used a bunch in past like evite, paperless post and the cost to switch is nothing.
- ejoso 2y ago
  It is a degraded experience. Not as smooth as being on iOS. It’s a common playbook used by Apple (as well as MS and others) in an attempt to get and retain users.
  - mjamil 2y ago
    Why would the stewards of a walled garden want other gardens (walled or otherwise) be as good as theirs? What moral or economic imperative exists for such a belief? Why is that bad?
    - TeMPOraL 2y ago
      > Why would the stewards of a walled garden want other gardens (walled or otherwise) be as good as theirs? What moral (...) imperative exists for such a belief? Not being an asshole? It's normal instinct unless one's brain has been thoroughly eaten by competitiveness. > Why is that bad? Because in this, Apple is attacking the commons. They're trying to provide an alternative to normal invite system - one that's been established and battle-tested over decades, one that works okay-ish across any device, real or virtual, on any platform, and one that people know how to use. An alternative that gives some bells and whistles exclusively to the Apple users, and perhaps even is more ergonomic in practice. An alternative that overlaps with the commons just enough to perhaps get the significant chunk of Apple-first userbase to switch over, but purposefully doesn't overlap enough to work well for non-Apple users (as well as professional users). Take commons, drive a wedge down the side, use it as lever for your massive userbase to push everyone else off it. Screw everyone else. Hell, even screw your own users too for having Android users (or Windows or Linux desktop users!) among family and friends. The next generation of users should remember that thou shalt only befriend and marry people from within your corporate community.

viraptor 2y ago

Yet, there's nothing iPhone specific about this idea. They didn't have to limit it in the way they did. In the future they can change the approach too and both remove and restrict features, because they will always go iPhone-first. Being able to use this in a restricted way today is just that. I share the "apple (and any corp)-first solution should fail" hope.

JohnBooty 2y ago
In the future they can change the approach too and both remove and restrict features Unlike a lot of product categories... I don't really see a strong lock-in factor here? Example: If you are heavily invested in Apple Music or Spotify, there's a lot of momentum there to keep you from switching. All your stuff is there (songs, favorites, playlists) and it would take a lot of time to re-find it on the other service, if it even exists there. And streaming services like Netflix lock you in with constant reams of new content. But what would be keeping me on some particular invite service? If I used Apple Invites for my last party two months ago... but I have decided that Apple Invites sucks now... I really don't see a lot of friction keeping me from switching away? The inconvenience would not be zero but seems minor.
- viraptor 2y ago
  You can switch. But now you also need to convince a random person that they should switch, because you can't easily use what they're using. And you may be the only one out of 10 people in the group complaining about it. Instead of their technical problem, Apple can make it a "you" social problem.
  - lloeki 2y ago
    Still valid for: s/Apple Invites/Meta Messenger groups/ s/Apple Invites/Facebook events/ s/Apple Invites/WhatsApp groups/ s/Apple Invites/Telegram groups s/Apple Invites/doodle.com/ These are the things people use around here to organise events. Four of those require a persistent account and an app, three of those are Meta for which I'm the loner yelling that I won't touch them with a 10 yard pole and a hazmat suit. What are you proposing instead? That these should all be decentralised/federated? SMS/RCS? Matrix? email? ICS?

wodenokoto 2y ago

> Making an event invite app that only works for users on one platform would be pointless. Worked really, really well for Facebook for about a decade or so. > Also - non-Apple users have been able to join FaceTime calls via. A link for several years. I had no idea! TIL!

pbreit 2y ago

Your "tips" don't really address the OP's post.

lordofgibbons 2y ago

Sometimes it's also good to stop worshiping trillion dollar companies who abuse their market dominance. While tech-literate Apple users couldn't tell the difference, their images and videos were sent in potato quality to non-Apple devices. So while technically, they could communicate with non-Apple users, it was a bad experience for anyone not in "walled garden". p.s Not taking features put out by Apple at face-value doesn't mean I didn't read the article.