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Let's not forget that Vanguard has taken a strong stance against crypto [0]. Claiming to significantly invest in technology while deliberately ignoring the late

Let's not forget that Vanguard has taken a strong stance against crypto [0]. Claiming to significantly invest in technology while deliberately ignoring the latest advancements in financial technology, seems contradictory. If their business was doing so well, they wouldn't have to lower fees. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42832026 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42832026

thorncorona 2y ago
cynically, crypto’s greatest achievement thus far has been speed running 200 years of financial mistakes and explaining why we need financial regulation.
- latchkey 2y ago
  It is so predictable to get a straw man argument like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238410
  - dsr_ 2y ago
    It's not a straw man argument when the counterargument you propose is "actually, evading regulation is the point".
    - deleted 2y ago
      [deleted]
    - latchkey 2y ago
      If a country does not have a functioning banking system, then it isn't evading regulation.
      - akimbostrawman 2y ago
        Forget evading regulation that has been possible with cash or gold since millennia. Its just sad that time and time again HN of all placed refuses to even consider that, yes magical p2p internet money does indeed have its uses outside of illegal activities.
mdasen 2y ago
Vanguard funds are owned by the investors in those funds. The fees that they charge are to cover the expenses, not make profit for a private company. If they're doing so well that the fees are brining in more money than they need, they lower the fees so that their owners (the investors in the funds) don't have to pay as much in fees. Their business is doing so well that they can lower fees.
- latchkey 2y ago
  > Their business is doing so well that they can lower fees. The counter to that is that they are not doing so well, that they need to attract more investors.
  - cbg0 2y ago
    Your counter assumes that it's one or the other, but there could be more reasons, such as doing well but looking to steal even more market share. At over $10 trillion AUM, it's hard to think that they're "not doing so well".
    - latchkey 2y ago
      So then why reduce fees now? Why not years ago? Are they just suddenly feeling that generous?
      - toast0 2y ago
        Vanguard has been reducing fees on a pretty regular basis. My assumption is that the corporate leaders go for a dip in the McDuck money pond every year, and when the level is too high that it risks overflowing, they adjust the fees down.
        wbl 2y ago
        I have heard from people who were contactors that everyone brings their lunch at Vanguard. No money pond here!
bityard 2y ago
There is a difference between investment and speculation and lots of people learn it the hard way, eventually.
- latchkey 2y ago
  Typically: Investment is long term. Speculation is short. Investment is looking for a gradual return over time. Speculation is betting on price. I've been long on crypto since 2013, I'm not a crypto day trader, and I'm well aware of DeFi. I consider that an investment, not speculation. Let people treat things the way they want to. All of the people who want to stick with Vanguard and their position are free to do so.
recursive 2y ago
And now I trust Vanguard just a little more.
- turnsout 2y ago
  Agreed—this strengthens my feelings about the brand. And I write this as someone who also holds (a tiny amount of) crypto
  - greenavocado 2y ago
    Vanguard won't let you trade anything even tangentially related to crypto FYI
    - greyface- 2y ago
      Not true. I own a few shares of MSTR in my Vanguard brokerage account.
      - latchkey 2y ago
        Good choice, one of my best investments ever. Get to 100 shares and sell some covered calls.
        niceice 2y ago
        What happens at 100 shares?
        latchkey 2y ago
        1 covered call == 100 shares
      - greenavocado 2y ago
        MSTR was not a crypto company when it was listed so this crypto backdoor trojan horse is an exception
ch4s3 2y ago
This is for the same reason they don't mix gold ETFs into their indexes. The point of their funds is to track companies that produce goods and services, not asserts and commodities.
- latchkey 2y ago
  Twist things around however you want, but VGPMX [0] invests in the companies producing precious metals. 1/4 of the portfolio is that. [0] https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/mutual-funds/profile/vgpmx https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/mutual-fun...
  - Aloisius 2y ago
    Vanguard invests in bitcoin companies. They just don't have a dedicated ETF or mutual fund. For instance, Vanguard is one of the largest institutional investors in MSTR and MARA.
    - latchkey 2y ago
      MSTR is now a direct proxy for btc, and MARA definitely is. Having massive investments in those stocks while claiming "we only invest in companies, not crypto", feels super wonky to me.
venusenvy47 2y ago
They believe that cryptocurrency is not an investment vehicle, which I also believe (and I own a little). They have clearly stated that they invest in things with real-world value.

thorncorona 2y ago

cynically, crypto’s greatest achievement thus far has been speed running 200 years of financial mistakes and explaining why we need financial regulation.

latchkey 2y ago
It is so predictable to get a straw man argument like this. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238410 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26238410
- dsr_ 2y ago
  It's not a straw man argument when the counterargument you propose is "actually, evading regulation is the point".
  - deleted 2y ago
    [deleted]
  - latchkey 2y ago
    If a country does not have a functioning banking system, then it isn't evading regulation.
    - akimbostrawman 2y ago
      Forget evading regulation that has been possible with cash or gold since millennia. Its just sad that time and time again HN of all placed refuses to even consider that, yes magical p2p internet money does indeed have its uses outside of illegal activities.

mdasen 2y ago

Vanguard funds are owned by the investors in those funds. The fees that they charge are to cover the expenses, not make profit for a private company. If they're doing so well that the fees are brining in more money than they need, they lower the fees so that their owners (the investors in the funds) don't have to pay as much in fees. Their business is doing so well that they can lower fees.

latchkey 2y ago
> Their business is doing so well that they can lower fees. The counter to that is that they are not doing so well, that they need to attract more investors.
- cbg0 2y ago
  Your counter assumes that it's one or the other, but there could be more reasons, such as doing well but looking to steal even more market share. At over $10 trillion AUM, it's hard to think that they're "not doing so well".
  - latchkey 2y ago
    So then why reduce fees now? Why not years ago? Are they just suddenly feeling that generous?
    - toast0 2y ago
      Vanguard has been reducing fees on a pretty regular basis. My assumption is that the corporate leaders go for a dip in the McDuck money pond every year, and when the level is too high that it risks overflowing, they adjust the fees down.
      - wbl 2y ago
        I have heard from people who were contactors that everyone brings their lunch at Vanguard. No money pond here!

bityard 2y ago

There is a difference between investment and speculation and lots of people learn it the hard way, eventually.

latchkey 2y ago
Typically: Investment is long term. Speculation is short. Investment is looking for a gradual return over time. Speculation is betting on price. I've been long on crypto since 2013, I'm not a crypto day trader, and I'm well aware of DeFi. I consider that an investment, not speculation. Let people treat things the way they want to. All of the people who want to stick with Vanguard and their position are free to do so.

recursive 2y ago

And now I trust Vanguard just a little more.

turnsout 2y ago
Agreed—this strengthens my feelings about the brand. And I write this as someone who also holds (a tiny amount of) crypto
- greenavocado 2y ago
  Vanguard won't let you trade anything even tangentially related to crypto FYI
  - greyface- 2y ago
    Not true. I own a few shares of MSTR in my Vanguard brokerage account.
    - latchkey 2y ago
      Good choice, one of my best investments ever. Get to 100 shares and sell some covered calls.
      - niceice 2y ago
        What happens at 100 shares?
        latchkey 2y ago
        1 covered call == 100 shares
    - greenavocado 2y ago
      MSTR was not a crypto company when it was listed so this crypto backdoor trojan horse is an exception

ch4s3 2y ago

This is for the same reason they don't mix gold ETFs into their indexes. The point of their funds is to track companies that produce goods and services, not asserts and commodities.

latchkey 2y ago
Twist things around however you want, but VGPMX [0] invests in the companies producing precious metals. 1/4 of the portfolio is that. [0] https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/mutual-funds/profile/vgpmx https://investor.vanguard.com/investment-products/mutual-fun...
- Aloisius 2y ago
  Vanguard invests in bitcoin companies. They just don't have a dedicated ETF or mutual fund. For instance, Vanguard is one of the largest institutional investors in MSTR and MARA.
  - latchkey 2y ago
    MSTR is now a direct proxy for btc, and MARA definitely is. Having massive investments in those stocks while claiming "we only invest in companies, not crypto", feels super wonky to me.

venusenvy47 2y ago

They believe that cryptocurrency is not an investment vehicle, which I also believe (and I own a little). They have clearly stated that they invest in things with real-world value.