4 ms·

One thing CCP did masterfully is sending very young grads, who are newly admitted to the party, to go to different local communities and evaluate the outcome go

One thing CCP did masterfully is sending very young grads, who are newly admitted to the party, to go to different local communities and evaluate the outcome government project like poverty reduction there (because obviously Xi don’t trust local officials and party members). These young people have a lot of energy to make some impact, also too young to lie or corrupt. The result turned out to be actually effective. There are quite some admiration for CCP from the american new right like moldbug and musk, It seems either they took a page from CCP, or happen to think alike.

turbojet1321 2y ago
> too young to lie or corrupt In my experience, youth has little to do with honesty or corruptibility.
- jimmydoe 2y ago
  I mean their social experience is usually not enough to conduct sophisticated rent seeking or reach some comprise with local officials. Young grads from big urban usually don’t do well with local mid aged bureaucrats. That type of human nature tension is what’s being leveraged here.
  - DanielHB 2y ago
    Makes sense, I also imagine the incentives were different. These young grads had no incentive to lie while local gov officials had plenty. The only one would be for the grads to take bribes from the local gov officials, but if the central government sent enough grads it would be too many to bribe.
  - willvarfar 2y ago
    It seems that when push comes to shove right now its the young people who are simply removing people who don't kowtow. Of course it is easy to imagine that the people they are removing are those who made principled stands rather than the corrupt who keep their heads down. As in they are removing the people who thought their job was to serve the public rather than line their own pockets? It is not clear if that is the effect the chiefs want or not.
- tivert 2y ago
  > In my experience, youth has little to do with honesty or corruptibility. It has a lot to do with naivete and not having the confidence to stand up when needed. There's a lot of easily indoctrinated, exploitable idealistic youth out there. A lot of organizations run on them.
- jorvi 2y ago
  Young people often are hopelessly ideological, in the same way a dogmatic religious person would be. Both are less corruptible than your average person.
  - jimkleiber 2y ago
    But can that also make them more gullible?
    - tivert 2y ago
      > But can that also make them more gullible? Oh definitely. They often don't have the experience to question what they're told or see the holes and deceptions in it. For instance: they'd be more easily fooled by a fake deadline. Or in this case, they may trust and follow their leader like a little zealot, even when he's wrong and doing bad things.
  - flakeoil 2y ago
    As fresh graduate at your first job, I suppose you follow the instructions from your boss a bit more and still have faith in your boss and upper management, a bit more than a senior, more experienced employee. Just look at the military, it's quite easy to scream at 18 year old recruits and have them crawl in mud and being screamed insults at. Try the same with a 45 year old.
  - watwut 2y ago
    Enron was staff by young people hired fresh of school. It is easy to manipulate young people into a new set of values. Army knows that, monks know that etc. These likely believe Musk is second coming of god.
  - zfg 2y ago
    It makes them more corruptible. They will perform corrupt acts while believing it the right thing to do. They're too naive to know better. They won't do graft. They will follow orders. Even and especially when the orders are corrupt.
    - 2y ago
- leftcenterright 2y ago
  isn't it more like "too young to speak up" ? How many Snowdens do we have after all.
zfg 2y ago
> too young to lie or corrupt Too young to have the experience to know what's a good idea and what's a bad idea. Too young to question what they're doing. Too young to push back when things are going wrong. Too young to have life experience and so are far easier to shape and indoctrinate. Musk pledged his commitment to China's core socialist values: https://www.mediaite.com/news/elon-musk-signs-letter-pledging-teslas-commitment-to-chinas-core-socialist-values/ https://www.mediaite.com/news/elon-musk-signs-letter-pledgin... Musk advocated for the submission of Taiwan to China: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/08/elon-musk-taiwan-china-special-administrative-zone-hong-kong https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/08/elon-musk... Musk thinks China rocks: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-china-rocks-us-full-of-entitlement.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-china-ro...
- jimmydoe 2y ago
  What Xi/Musk need in these cases is loyalty, not critical thinking. Apparently they both know how to leverage the youth for it.
  - zfg 2y ago
    Yes, they are corrupting the youth for their own purposes. The young are too dumb to recognize what's happening to them.
dtquad 2y ago
Many high-ranking Chinese officials, including Xi Jinping (Chemical Engineering) and his predecessors like Hu Jintao (Hydraulic Engineering) and Jiang Zemin (Electrical Engineering), are trained engineers. They also like economics and finance people. Premier Li Keqiang has a PhD in Economics from Peking University. Zhu Rongji, a former premier, had a strong economics and mathematics background. I am not a fan of American techno-libertarianism nor the Chinese CCP but Europe needs more engineers and economists (from math heavy programs) in politics.
- masterclef 2y ago
  [flagged]
  - geraltofrivia 2y ago
    Not a comment on your overall statement but I want to point out the irony of mentioning Trump and Musk in a positive light and nepotism in a negative one.
    - masterclef 2y ago
      [flagged]
      - xav0989 2y ago
        But naming your kids to positions of power because they’re your kids is nepotism.
        IMTDb 2y ago
        That’s exactly how it works in my Western Europe country. Bonus point if said child is using his mother political ties to organise an international drug smuggling ring.
        masterclef 2y ago
h1fra 2y ago
Maybe the difference here, is that those young people seems to already be corrupted and doing illegal stuff
saturn8601 2y ago
My understanding is that local Chinese municipalities are going bankrupt due to the high amounts of debt that they have? [1]:https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/economy/china-local-governments-basic-services-debt-crisis-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/economy/china-local-governmen... They are going through a real estate crash and their demographic situation bodes a very bleak long term future.
ImHereToVote 2y ago
CPC
philipwhiuk 2y ago
The CCP also send young agents overseas to infiltrate organisations that don't have adequate security controls. Like DOGE.

turbojet1321 2y ago

> too young to lie or corrupt In my experience, youth has little to do with honesty or corruptibility.

jimmydoe 2y ago
I mean their social experience is usually not enough to conduct sophisticated rent seeking or reach some comprise with local officials. Young grads from big urban usually don’t do well with local mid aged bureaucrats. That type of human nature tension is what’s being leveraged here.
- DanielHB 2y ago
  Makes sense, I also imagine the incentives were different. These young grads had no incentive to lie while local gov officials had plenty. The only one would be for the grads to take bribes from the local gov officials, but if the central government sent enough grads it would be too many to bribe.
- willvarfar 2y ago
  It seems that when push comes to shove right now its the young people who are simply removing people who don't kowtow. Of course it is easy to imagine that the people they are removing are those who made principled stands rather than the corrupt who keep their heads down. As in they are removing the people who thought their job was to serve the public rather than line their own pockets? It is not clear if that is the effect the chiefs want or not.
tivert 2y ago
> In my experience, youth has little to do with honesty or corruptibility. It has a lot to do with naivete and not having the confidence to stand up when needed. There's a lot of easily indoctrinated, exploitable idealistic youth out there. A lot of organizations run on them.
jorvi 2y ago
Young people often are hopelessly ideological, in the same way a dogmatic religious person would be. Both are less corruptible than your average person.
- jimkleiber 2y ago
  But can that also make them more gullible?
  - tivert 2y ago
    > But can that also make them more gullible? Oh definitely. They often don't have the experience to question what they're told or see the holes and deceptions in it. For instance: they'd be more easily fooled by a fake deadline. Or in this case, they may trust and follow their leader like a little zealot, even when he's wrong and doing bad things.
- flakeoil 2y ago
  As fresh graduate at your first job, I suppose you follow the instructions from your boss a bit more and still have faith in your boss and upper management, a bit more than a senior, more experienced employee. Just look at the military, it's quite easy to scream at 18 year old recruits and have them crawl in mud and being screamed insults at. Try the same with a 45 year old.
- watwut 2y ago
  Enron was staff by young people hired fresh of school. It is easy to manipulate young people into a new set of values. Army knows that, monks know that etc. These likely believe Musk is second coming of god.
- zfg 2y ago
  It makes them more corruptible. They will perform corrupt acts while believing it the right thing to do. They're too naive to know better. They won't do graft. They will follow orders. Even and especially when the orders are corrupt.
  - 2y ago
leftcenterright 2y ago
isn't it more like "too young to speak up" ? How many Snowdens do we have after all.

zfg 2y ago

> too young to lie or corrupt Too young to have the experience to know what's a good idea and what's a bad idea. Too young to question what they're doing. Too young to push back when things are going wrong. Too young to have life experience and so are far easier to shape and indoctrinate. Musk pledged his commitment to China's core socialist values: https://www.mediaite.com/news/elon-musk-signs-letter-pledging-teslas-commitment-to-chinas-core-socialist-values/ https://www.mediaite.com/news/elon-musk-signs-letter-pledgin... Musk advocated for the submission of Taiwan to China: https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/08/elon-musk-taiwan-china-special-administrative-zone-hong-kong https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2022/oct/08/elon-musk... Musk thinks China rocks: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-china-rocks-us-full-of-entitlement.html https://www.cnbc.com/2020/07/31/tesla-ceo-elon-musk-china-ro...

jimmydoe 2y ago
What Xi/Musk need in these cases is loyalty, not critical thinking. Apparently they both know how to leverage the youth for it.
- zfg 2y ago
  Yes, they are corrupting the youth for their own purposes. The young are too dumb to recognize what's happening to them.

dtquad 2y ago

Many high-ranking Chinese officials, including Xi Jinping (Chemical Engineering) and his predecessors like Hu Jintao (Hydraulic Engineering) and Jiang Zemin (Electrical Engineering), are trained engineers. They also like economics and finance people. Premier Li Keqiang has a PhD in Economics from Peking University. Zhu Rongji, a former premier, had a strong economics and mathematics background. I am not a fan of American techno-libertarianism nor the Chinese CCP but Europe needs more engineers and economists (from math heavy programs) in politics.

masterclef 2y ago
[flagged]
- geraltofrivia 2y ago
  Not a comment on your overall statement but I want to point out the irony of mentioning Trump and Musk in a positive light and nepotism in a negative one.
  - masterclef 2y ago
    [flagged]
    - xav0989 2y ago
      But naming your kids to positions of power because they’re your kids is nepotism.
      - IMTDb 2y ago
        That’s exactly how it works in my Western Europe country. Bonus point if said child is using his mother political ties to organise an international drug smuggling ring.
        masterclef 2y ago

h1fra 2y ago

Maybe the difference here, is that those young people seems to already be corrupted and doing illegal stuff

saturn8601 2y ago

My understanding is that local Chinese municipalities are going bankrupt due to the high amounts of debt that they have? [1]:https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/economy/china-local-governments-basic-services-debt-crisis-intl-hnk/index.html https://www.cnn.com/2023/01/31/economy/china-local-governmen... They are going through a real estate crash and their demographic situation bodes a very bleak long term future.

ImHereToVote 2y ago

CPC

philipwhiuk 2y ago

The CCP also send young agents overseas to infiltrate organisations that don't have adequate security controls. Like DOGE.