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So, America has been dovetailing towards being a monarchy because Congress won’t do their jobs, and it was inevitable that a President would eventually arrive w

So, America has been dovetailing towards being a monarchy because Congress won’t do their jobs, and it was inevitable that a President would eventually arrive who would wield that power? If nobody is willing to enforce the law, and the majority willingly hand the keys to the democracy to a single individual with dubious intentions, is it best to just accept this as the “natural order of things”? The institutions that my generation was raised to respect as the foundations of the democracy seem to hold no weight or value, so it seems like the only thing left to do is just stand by to see what happens. I preemptively left the country last year and won’t be back anytime soon, so as sad as I am to see this day, I’m also strategically working to insulate myself from as much of the fallout as I can.

whoisthemachine 2y ago
The electoral college was created to prevent a majority from doing such things, but having the electoral college override the will of the people creates all sorts of problems (and possible tit-for-tat in future elections).
- tmountain 2y ago
  Well, it would have been pretty damn nice to see it “activate” when a candidate with 34 felonies and two impeachments won the election, but that didn’t happen, so any supposed utility is immaterial now. I disagree with the entire concept in principle and do believe that the democratic vote should choose the candidate (even now). I just don’t think most folks actually know what they bargained for.
  - bonzini 2y ago
    I think a bunch of states actually make it illegal for electors to be faithless.
    - arcastroe 2y ago
      What does it mean for it to be illegal? If they cast faithless votes, would those votes stand, but then they open themselves up for prosecution? or would the votes not stand at all.
  - Terr_ 2y ago
    Yeah, the one useful feature I ever thought it might have would be as a check against a crazy-unqualified demagogue, and since then I have seen it fail spectacularly, twice.
    - IgorPartola 2y ago
      That was the original intent. It’s like a half way to a parliamentary system where the legislature elects a PM except here it is a separate one time use assembly.
      - Terr_ 2y ago
        In fairness to the framers, it was originally supposed to increase in size along with the growth of the House of Representatives.
- DebtDeflation 2y ago
  The electoral college was created in the time before the Internet, computers, television, radio, telephone, telegraph, electricity, the automobile, the airplane, and the train. It was logistically impossible to have a national popular vote at the time. Even the gap between the election and inauguration was based on the time it would take a man on horseback to reach DC from the farthest point out in the country.
Aeolun 2y ago
There’s tried and true solutions to these things. You can ask any Frenchman, they made a whole thing out of it during the last olympics.
- captainbland 2y ago
  Really depends on the allegiances of the police and armed forces I guess.
  - UncleOxidant 2y ago
    Yep. When push comes to shove, I suspect more of them will side with the authoritarian since that's kind of the personality type that tends to get involved in these kinds of occupations.
coldtea 2y ago
>The institutions that my generation was raised to respect as the foundations of the democracy seem to hold no weight or value, so it seems like the only thing left to do is just stand by to see what happens What generation was raised to respect those institutions? Because the boomers were against them and their policies, and Gen X was cynical about them...
- alexissantos 2y ago
  Millennials, I'd argue. During the 90s, culture at large painted a picture of stability and progress, all made possible by democracy. See Francis Fukuyama's The End of History for the kind of tone that permeated the time. As we Millenials have gotten older, we too have seen through the veil and realized the system isn't perfect. More importantly, perhaps, we've seen the wide range of ways people react to this imperfect system. Some have chosen to undermine its very foundations to get their way, leaving many to wonder what we're left with if -- to loosely quote Whose Line Is It Anyway -- the rules are made up and the points don't matter.
  - UncleOxidant 2y ago
    The late 70s through the 90s were kind of our last stable period (the 60s & early 70s were tumultuous with Viet Nam and Watergate, and the 30s & 40s were dominated by Depression and World War). That all starts to unravel with 9/11 and the response to it (starting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that cost us $Trillions and didn't really help stabilize the region and ironically began the destabilization of the US). Much as we like to kvetch about Clinton (and I've certainly done my share of it, and certainly much of the criticism has merit), if there was a "golden age" of America in recent memory, the Clinton era was it.
chairmansteve 2y ago
"I preemptively left the country last year". Where did you go? I am in a position to leave, but not sure where to go.
- jart 2y ago
  The best safe space after the US is Switzerland. If you move anywhere else, you risk making it worse for yourself. One option is Taiwan which gives gold cards to people with impressive GitHubs.
  - UncleOxidant 2y ago
    > One option is Taiwan Ummm... yeah, I think that could easily end up in the category of "making it worse for yourself" given the geopolitical risk.
- throwaway657656 2y ago
  Go where you have friends, family, or some clear reason to be. The fact that you are open to suggestions implies this is an aimless/distracting way to waste years of your life. Perhaps you have the type of trouble you can't run away from ? I am speaking from experience and hoping you don't give up on the US assuming your roots are here. Take a long vacation abroad as an alternative.
dinkumthinkum 2y ago
America is not moving toward a monarchy. The idea that no one is willing to enforce the law is not true. There have been many criminals that have just been removed from the country and many more are in the process of being removed. I'm not sure what "handing the keys to democracy" means, if this is about the United States then that country is a constitutional republic. I'm not sure what leaving the country served, if it makes you happy great, but there is so much hyperbole on the left. The funny thing is that people at the highest levels of the left that pushed insane hyperbole, clearly don't even believe their own nonsense about Trump and the administration, with their sheepish smiles. As far as the article, Musk is a mixed bag. On the one hand, I think it is a good idea to have an entity concern itself with improving the efficiency and reducing the bloat of the bureaucracy of the federal government and Musk is not a dummy, he is the richest person in the world and runs some quite high-profile companies. On the other hand, it is hard to deny Musk is a little bit of a buffoon: fighting with Asmongold on X over his clear lies about video games is sort of unbelievable, telling Americans to "F [themselves] in the FACE" if they don't want all high-skilled jobs in this country to go to H-1Bs, and various other sort of juvenile things. Having these kids that Musk has hired to run-around the federal government is probably not the best thing but I think this doomsday stuff is completely silly.
- ipython 2y ago
  Technically one of those criminals would have been musk himself, who was in violation of immigration law by violating the terms of his student visa when he first started working in SV: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/10/26/elon-musk-immigration-status/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/10/26/elon-musk... He also just pardoned a bunch of criminals who physically assaulted police, desecrated Congress, because… they were on his side? That’s simply unprecedented. I don’t need a “party leader” to tell me that’s wrong.
- Hikikomori 2y ago
  It's silly but some of it is true. Curtis Yarvin is a monarchist and believes countries should be run as a company with a tech CEO as king, ska dark enlightenment. Peter Thiel believe in his ideas, he funded JD Vances career. Musk seems to be onboard, if not just to enrich himself and achieve his Mars goals. Other tech billionaires are as well. Their goal seems to be to dismantle the federal government and buy up assets and land. Then form micro countries like above with themselves as king/CEO. https://youtu.be/5RpPTRcz1no https://youtu.be/5RpPTRcz1no

whoisthemachine 2y ago

The electoral college was created to prevent a majority from doing such things, but having the electoral college override the will of the people creates all sorts of problems (and possible tit-for-tat in future elections).

tmountain 2y ago
Well, it would have been pretty damn nice to see it “activate” when a candidate with 34 felonies and two impeachments won the election, but that didn’t happen, so any supposed utility is immaterial now. I disagree with the entire concept in principle and do believe that the democratic vote should choose the candidate (even now). I just don’t think most folks actually know what they bargained for.
- bonzini 2y ago
  I think a bunch of states actually make it illegal for electors to be faithless.
  - arcastroe 2y ago
    What does it mean for it to be illegal? If they cast faithless votes, would those votes stand, but then they open themselves up for prosecution? or would the votes not stand at all.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  Yeah, the one useful feature I ever thought it might have would be as a check against a crazy-unqualified demagogue, and since then I have seen it fail spectacularly, twice.
  - IgorPartola 2y ago
    That was the original intent. It’s like a half way to a parliamentary system where the legislature elects a PM except here it is a separate one time use assembly.
    - Terr_ 2y ago
      In fairness to the framers, it was originally supposed to increase in size along with the growth of the House of Representatives.
DebtDeflation 2y ago
The electoral college was created in the time before the Internet, computers, television, radio, telephone, telegraph, electricity, the automobile, the airplane, and the train. It was logistically impossible to have a national popular vote at the time. Even the gap between the election and inauguration was based on the time it would take a man on horseback to reach DC from the farthest point out in the country.

Aeolun 2y ago

There’s tried and true solutions to these things. You can ask any Frenchman, they made a whole thing out of it during the last olympics.

captainbland 2y ago
Really depends on the allegiances of the police and armed forces I guess.
- UncleOxidant 2y ago
  Yep. When push comes to shove, I suspect more of them will side with the authoritarian since that's kind of the personality type that tends to get involved in these kinds of occupations.

coldtea 2y ago

>The institutions that my generation was raised to respect as the foundations of the democracy seem to hold no weight or value, so it seems like the only thing left to do is just stand by to see what happens What generation was raised to respect those institutions? Because the boomers were against them and their policies, and Gen X was cynical about them...

alexissantos 2y ago
Millennials, I'd argue. During the 90s, culture at large painted a picture of stability and progress, all made possible by democracy. See Francis Fukuyama's The End of History for the kind of tone that permeated the time. As we Millenials have gotten older, we too have seen through the veil and realized the system isn't perfect. More importantly, perhaps, we've seen the wide range of ways people react to this imperfect system. Some have chosen to undermine its very foundations to get their way, leaving many to wonder what we're left with if -- to loosely quote Whose Line Is It Anyway -- the rules are made up and the points don't matter.
- UncleOxidant 2y ago
  The late 70s through the 90s were kind of our last stable period (the 60s & early 70s were tumultuous with Viet Nam and Watergate, and the 30s & 40s were dominated by Depression and World War). That all starts to unravel with 9/11 and the response to it (starting wars in Iraq and Afghanistan that cost us $Trillions and didn't really help stabilize the region and ironically began the destabilization of the US). Much as we like to kvetch about Clinton (and I've certainly done my share of it, and certainly much of the criticism has merit), if there was a "golden age" of America in recent memory, the Clinton era was it.

chairmansteve 2y ago

"I preemptively left the country last year". Where did you go? I am in a position to leave, but not sure where to go.

jart 2y ago
The best safe space after the US is Switzerland. If you move anywhere else, you risk making it worse for yourself. One option is Taiwan which gives gold cards to people with impressive GitHubs.
- UncleOxidant 2y ago
  > One option is Taiwan Ummm... yeah, I think that could easily end up in the category of "making it worse for yourself" given the geopolitical risk.
throwaway657656 2y ago
Go where you have friends, family, or some clear reason to be. The fact that you are open to suggestions implies this is an aimless/distracting way to waste years of your life. Perhaps you have the type of trouble you can't run away from ? I am speaking from experience and hoping you don't give up on the US assuming your roots are here. Take a long vacation abroad as an alternative.

dinkumthinkum 2y ago

America is not moving toward a monarchy. The idea that no one is willing to enforce the law is not true. There have been many criminals that have just been removed from the country and many more are in the process of being removed. I'm not sure what "handing the keys to democracy" means, if this is about the United States then that country is a constitutional republic. I'm not sure what leaving the country served, if it makes you happy great, but there is so much hyperbole on the left. The funny thing is that people at the highest levels of the left that pushed insane hyperbole, clearly don't even believe their own nonsense about Trump and the administration, with their sheepish smiles. As far as the article, Musk is a mixed bag. On the one hand, I think it is a good idea to have an entity concern itself with improving the efficiency and reducing the bloat of the bureaucracy of the federal government and Musk is not a dummy, he is the richest person in the world and runs some quite high-profile companies. On the other hand, it is hard to deny Musk is a little bit of a buffoon: fighting with Asmongold on X over his clear lies about video games is sort of unbelievable, telling Americans to "F [themselves] in the FACE" if they don't want all high-skilled jobs in this country to go to H-1Bs, and various other sort of juvenile things. Having these kids that Musk has hired to run-around the federal government is probably not the best thing but I think this doomsday stuff is completely silly.

ipython 2y ago
Technically one of those criminals would have been musk himself, who was in violation of immigration law by violating the terms of his student visa when he first started working in SV: https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/10/26/elon-musk-immigration-status/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2024/10/26/elon-musk... He also just pardoned a bunch of criminals who physically assaulted police, desecrated Congress, because… they were on his side? That’s simply unprecedented. I don’t need a “party leader” to tell me that’s wrong.
Hikikomori 2y ago
It's silly but some of it is true. Curtis Yarvin is a monarchist and believes countries should be run as a company with a tech CEO as king, ska dark enlightenment. Peter Thiel believe in his ideas, he funded JD Vances career. Musk seems to be onboard, if not just to enrich himself and achieve his Mars goals. Other tech billionaires are as well. Their goal seems to be to dismantle the federal government and buy up assets and land. Then form micro countries like above with themselves as king/CEO. https://youtu.be/5RpPTRcz1no https://youtu.be/5RpPTRcz1no