4 ms·

The upside is, maybe when grocery and gas prices double it will shake some people out of their MAGA trance.

tombert 2y ago
I wish. They're just going to lie and say their life is actually better now, or they're going to lie and say prices have actually gone down somehow, or they're going to lie and say that this is all the Democrats' fault, or they're going to lie and say it's some kind of divine thing. His followers just make shit up. I think trying to prescribe logic to it is akin to trying to "prove false"; the entire premise is malformed.
- nico 2y ago
  This is how it went down in Venezuela, very quickly, unfortunately
  - kragen 2y ago
    Do you mean in 01999, in 02002, in 02006, in 02013, in 02014, in 02015, in 02016, in 02017, in 02019, or last July? There are a lot of events in Venezuela that vaguely resemble your description but none that really match. This comment is getting downvoted now, presumably by people who think it's totally obvious which event in Venezuela nico is talking about, but can't be bothered to enlighten me. I wonder if the different downvoters even agree with each other about which one it is.
    - Tadpole9181 2y ago
      Why are there leading be zeros?
      - szatkus 2y ago
        It's one of those weird HN things... https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2550 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2550
        stogot 2y ago
        I don’t think it’s a “HN” thing
      - eesmith 2y ago
        https://longnow.org/ideas/long-now-years-five-digit-dates-and-10k-compliance-at-home/ https://longnow.org/ideas/long-now-years-five-digit-dates-an... > The Long Now Foundation uses five-digit dates to guard against the deca-millennium bug (the “Y10K” problem) which will come into effect in about 8,000 years. As you may have noticed any reference we make to a year begins with a zero: 01977, 03012, 02000, 00521, 01215, etc. > It’s an idiosyncrasy to which we are dedicated. It’s nerdy fun, but it has a serious point, too. As our co-founder Stewart Brand points out: the present moment used to be the unimaginable future.
        tombert 2y ago
        You just gave me a new phobia: in 8,000 years we still be running the same servers for our payroll systems.
        eesmith 2y ago
        .. and in COBOL.
    - orwin 2y ago
      GP probably mean 2014, that was the year everything went to shit there. But thinking about it, it's probably more like 2013. Like people say: slowly, then all at once. The "all at once" of venezuela was 2014. But the US president don't have the same power Maduro had, and have competent bureaucracy (in this case, the Fed). Anyway the comparison does not really work anyway. We lack data points. I'll wait 6 months before making any judgments.
- inverted_flag 2y ago
  His dedicated followers will, but a lot of low information voters voted for Trump primarily because prices ballooned after covid, and the first tangible effect they’re going to feel from his presidency is a rapid increase in prices.
  - tombert 2y ago
    I just genuinely hope that we are all wrong, and that massive tariffs will somehow lead to prices dropping. I am pretty confident that I am not wrong, but if prices do somehow drop I’ll admit I was.
    - pupppet 2y ago
      Even if prices do go down, are you going to be OK with Trump reneging on the USMCA that was signed on his watch?
      - tombert 2y ago
        No, probably not. I'll admit that I don't really know enough about unilateral trade agreements so as to understand the details of the USMCA or NAFTA, but it does seem like just reneging on a deal that the US (and specifically the same president) signed is going to lead to a lot of ill will from our allies. I don't really know if countries have a "credit score", but it does seem like it's greatly going to erode away at foreign nations' trust of the USA if we aren't going to honor our trade deals.
disqard 2y ago
I think you're discounting how easy it would be for them to say "it's all Biden's fault", and lots of people will eat it up.
- ttyprintk 2y ago
  That Biden, such a strong debater. Such a domineering force that he set up the executive branch in a way that Trump, try as he might, couldn’t figure out a fix.
  - krapp 2y ago
    One of the primary features of fascist rhetoric is that the enemy is presented as both strong and weak at the same time. Remember many of these people believe Biden created COVID and orchestrated a vast conspiracy to steal the election in 2020, all while being a feeble old man riddled with dementia. Obviously Biden's administration was so terrible, so damaging, that the catastrophic reverberations of it will be felt for years to come. Drastic actions will need to be taken, and sacrifices will need to be made. That sort of thing.
    - orwin 2y ago
      I disagree, this is a secondary feature: this contradiction came from fascist mythos: ``` We are the best because of our culture/genes (genetics was Nazi, culture was italian/Spanish fascism), but a global cabal led by both external and internal ennemies (often communists or anarchists for the fascists, plus jews for the Nazis, hence "judeo-bolchevism") prevent us from reaching our full potential, which will only be reached if we get all the "Lebensraum" or "Spazio vitale" we deserve. ``` Weirdly it create this contradiction, of an enemy undeserving but temporally stronger. Another secondary feature i find interesting is how fascism target first "strong" conservatives before liberals (Shleicher was killed, Luther and Bruning quasi-ignored). Weak turncoats however are treated very well (Von Papen is the most obvious example).
ipython 2y ago
It’s already happened. The avian flu has driven supplies down and prices through the roof for eggs. My local deli is now charging an extra surcharge of 40c per egg. Strange, considering bringing the price of eggs down seemed to be a key message in their campaign? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BPT3xe6jbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BPT3xe6jbk
- ttyprintk 2y ago
  They could moderate the price for eggs if they wanted. Tariffs on fertilizer will matter in the medium term, so they should have exempted those. Price supports on eggs have a history in the New Deal, so the politics of that will need a facelift to prevent associations with mid-century Democrats.
  - Marsymars 2y ago
    > They could moderate the price for eggs if they wanted. Tariffs on fertilizer will matter in the medium term, so they should have exempted those. For an economically smarter tariff response from Canada, rather than 25% on US imports, we could have put in export tariffs to equalize everything at 25%, so e.g. 15% on energy and whatever theoretical amount on fertilizer to bring it up also to 25%.
pupppet 2y ago
MAGA will simply blame Canada for the rising prices and Trump will have his excuse to invade.
cheema33 2y ago
> The upside is, maybe when grocery and gas prices double it will shake some people out of their MAGA trance. You are assuming that MAGA are capable of self reflection and admitting mistakes. I doubt that vast majority of them are capable of critical thinking.

I wish. They're just going to lie and say their life is actually better now, or they're going to lie and say prices have actually gone down somehow, or they're going to lie and say that this is all the Democrats' fault, or they're going to lie and say it's some kind of divine thing. His followers just make shit up. I think trying to prescribe logic to it is akin to trying to "prove false"; the entire premise is malformed.

nico 2y ago
This is how it went down in Venezuela, very quickly, unfortunately
- kragen 2y ago
  Do you mean in 01999, in 02002, in 02006, in 02013, in 02014, in 02015, in 02016, in 02017, in 02019, or last July? There are a lot of events in Venezuela that vaguely resemble your description but none that really match. This comment is getting downvoted now, presumably by people who think it's totally obvious which event in Venezuela nico is talking about, but can't be bothered to enlighten me. I wonder if the different downvoters even agree with each other about which one it is.
  - Tadpole9181 2y ago
    Why are there leading be zeros?
    - szatkus 2y ago
      It's one of those weird HN things... https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2550 https://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc2550
      - stogot 2y ago
        I don’t think it’s a “HN” thing
    - eesmith 2y ago
      https://longnow.org/ideas/long-now-years-five-digit-dates-and-10k-compliance-at-home/ https://longnow.org/ideas/long-now-years-five-digit-dates-an... > The Long Now Foundation uses five-digit dates to guard against the deca-millennium bug (the “Y10K” problem) which will come into effect in about 8,000 years. As you may have noticed any reference we make to a year begins with a zero: 01977, 03012, 02000, 00521, 01215, etc. > It’s an idiosyncrasy to which we are dedicated. It’s nerdy fun, but it has a serious point, too. As our co-founder Stewart Brand points out: the present moment used to be the unimaginable future.
      - tombert 2y ago
        You just gave me a new phobia: in 8,000 years we still be running the same servers for our payroll systems.
        eesmith 2y ago
        .. and in COBOL.
  - orwin 2y ago
    GP probably mean 2014, that was the year everything went to shit there. But thinking about it, it's probably more like 2013. Like people say: slowly, then all at once. The "all at once" of venezuela was 2014. But the US president don't have the same power Maduro had, and have competent bureaucracy (in this case, the Fed). Anyway the comparison does not really work anyway. We lack data points. I'll wait 6 months before making any judgments.
inverted_flag 2y ago
His dedicated followers will, but a lot of low information voters voted for Trump primarily because prices ballooned after covid, and the first tangible effect they’re going to feel from his presidency is a rapid increase in prices.
- tombert 2y ago
  I just genuinely hope that we are all wrong, and that massive tariffs will somehow lead to prices dropping. I am pretty confident that I am not wrong, but if prices do somehow drop I’ll admit I was.
  - pupppet 2y ago
    Even if prices do go down, are you going to be OK with Trump reneging on the USMCA that was signed on his watch?
    - tombert 2y ago
      No, probably not. I'll admit that I don't really know enough about unilateral trade agreements so as to understand the details of the USMCA or NAFTA, but it does seem like just reneging on a deal that the US (and specifically the same president) signed is going to lead to a lot of ill will from our allies. I don't really know if countries have a "credit score", but it does seem like it's greatly going to erode away at foreign nations' trust of the USA if we aren't going to honor our trade deals.

disqard 2y ago

I think you're discounting how easy it would be for them to say "it's all Biden's fault", and lots of people will eat it up.

ttyprintk 2y ago
That Biden, such a strong debater. Such a domineering force that he set up the executive branch in a way that Trump, try as he might, couldn’t figure out a fix.
- krapp 2y ago
  One of the primary features of fascist rhetoric is that the enemy is presented as both strong and weak at the same time. Remember many of these people believe Biden created COVID and orchestrated a vast conspiracy to steal the election in 2020, all while being a feeble old man riddled with dementia. Obviously Biden's administration was so terrible, so damaging, that the catastrophic reverberations of it will be felt for years to come. Drastic actions will need to be taken, and sacrifices will need to be made. That sort of thing.
  - orwin 2y ago
    I disagree, this is a secondary feature: this contradiction came from fascist mythos: ``` We are the best because of our culture/genes (genetics was Nazi, culture was italian/Spanish fascism), but a global cabal led by both external and internal ennemies (often communists or anarchists for the fascists, plus jews for the Nazis, hence "judeo-bolchevism") prevent us from reaching our full potential, which will only be reached if we get all the "Lebensraum" or "Spazio vitale" we deserve. ``` Weirdly it create this contradiction, of an enemy undeserving but temporally stronger. Another secondary feature i find interesting is how fascism target first "strong" conservatives before liberals (Shleicher was killed, Luther and Bruning quasi-ignored). Weak turncoats however are treated very well (Von Papen is the most obvious example).

ipython 2y ago

It’s already happened. The avian flu has driven supplies down and prices through the roof for eggs. My local deli is now charging an extra surcharge of 40c per egg. Strange, considering bringing the price of eggs down seemed to be a key message in their campaign? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BPT3xe6jbk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-BPT3xe6jbk

ttyprintk 2y ago
They could moderate the price for eggs if they wanted. Tariffs on fertilizer will matter in the medium term, so they should have exempted those. Price supports on eggs have a history in the New Deal, so the politics of that will need a facelift to prevent associations with mid-century Democrats.
- Marsymars 2y ago
  > They could moderate the price for eggs if they wanted. Tariffs on fertilizer will matter in the medium term, so they should have exempted those. For an economically smarter tariff response from Canada, rather than 25% on US imports, we could have put in export tariffs to equalize everything at 25%, so e.g. 15% on energy and whatever theoretical amount on fertilizer to bring it up also to 25%.

pupppet 2y ago

MAGA will simply blame Canada for the rising prices and Trump will have his excuse to invade.

cheema33 2y ago

> The upside is, maybe when grocery and gas prices double it will shake some people out of their MAGA trance. You are assuming that MAGA are capable of self reflection and admitting mistakes. I doubt that vast majority of them are capable of critical thinking.