3 ms·

I went on a quest to read Hugo award winning novels a couple of years ago and have come to the conclusion that there is disappointingly little correlation betwe

I went on a quest to read Hugo award winning novels a couple of years ago and have come to the conclusion that there is disappointingly little correlation between award winning and quality writing as well. Or the people who judge books have different criteria than I do as to what makes a book good.

magicalhippo 2y ago
Few works of art are great across all the metrics. A book (or a movie) can have a great overall premise and structure, but have lacking dialog, flow or other issues. Is it good? Perhaps for me, but not for you. I just watched Lost Highway in the theaters. I had never had a chance to watch it on the big screen before, and I brought my SO. I love the movie since there's no clear cut interpretation, yet it also feels accessible. My SO hadn't seen it before, and while she thought it was fine overall, she really disliked that there isn't a canonical "this is what happened and this is what the things mean" explanation. The very thing that made me love the movie.
B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago
Hugo awards are by popular vote of fans attending conventions, and SF mostly prided itself on being about ideas, so you'll get what caught most people's fancy at the time.
jccooper 2y ago
Hugo voters are members of the World Science Fiction Society (who are mostly Worldcon attendees). Which is to say, voters for that are chosen for enthusiasm for the genre, not taste.
_carbyau_ 2y ago
I have come to accept that most books are good at something, and maybe even a few things, but not so great at many things. I embarked on a similar "read the Hugos" adventure and much of it is great in a sci-fi premise - understandable - but the characters or pacing or unfolding story is meh. Example, The Wanderer by Fritz Leiber [0] is a great exposition of gravitational effects when a planet-sized object appears in the sky nearby earth. Characters and unfolding story are meh. I pictured it as a C-grade 60's movie with stilted acting. But the way the earth was reacting and the moon coming apart was a great fictional invention and the way it was done was novel at the time! In similar vein, Conan stories are great fantasy adventures with well described fights, battles, scenes. I've never found a better author to describe a fight - or a battle between armies - with enough detail to make it interesting and exciting and yet in relatively few words. I've also never read stories as sexist and racist... but I don't go out of my way to look for that I guess. I accepted it was written in the day it was and had to sort the wheat from the chaff. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/21808426 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/21808426
dunham 2y ago
I did the same a couple of decades ago and enjoyed it. It was especially interesting to see a slice of early sci-fi. It's been a while, but I remember enjoying "The Big Time" and Connie Willis' books.
somenameforme 2y ago
Not to be the one to point out the pink elephant, but the Hugo Awards became somewhat politicized a decade or so ago and identity politics started to feature heavily into selections. If your criteria doesn't include that then the awards are now probably meaningless. But go back to the past, and there's a reason they used to have such prestige associated with them. For instance in the 60s some winners were Starship Troopers, Man in the High Castle, Stranger in a Strange Land, Dune, and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress! Come to think of it not sure if that says more about the 60s or the award though. Cripes there was something in the water back then.
- watwut 2y ago
  Yes, 60s famous as period when the gender of the author or characters did not mattered in the slightest. It was totally only later when they started to matter, sure.
  - kurisufag 2y ago
    identity politics sneakily becoming a required element in media (whether that be for genuine representation reasons, appeals to that market, whatever) isn't a necessary result of equitability in writing.
    - watwut 2y ago
      Compared to era when female characters and writers were excluded openly ... I mean common. It is absurd to use the era where identity (gender, race) was key determinant of what will happen, before anything else.
      - machomaster 2y ago
        Do you have any evidence that such alleged exclusion of good writing was common and disproportional compared to male writers?
  - somenameforme 2y ago
    Of course it mattered, but it didn't define the results. Le Guin won it multiple times. And as far back as 1956, the third Hugo ever, a female author made it to the short list. But they weren't winning or being nominated because of their sex. They were just exceptional authors who happened to be female, which is as it should be.
akvadrako 2y ago
I've noticed the same thing, especially with Hugo awards. On the other hand my favorite SF author, Gene Wolfe, has also won many other awards, like the Nebula and Locus awards. So you can find good stuff by using the awards as a starting point.
disgruntledphd2 2y ago
Huh, that's interesting. I read a lot of Hugo winning stuff and always found them well written even if not massively engaging.
dlcarrier 2y ago
When awarding bodies grow in popularity, their roles switch from populist to elitist, as their membership becomes more elite. This hit the Hugo awards extra hard, because their voting method is especially vulnerable to lobbying, and warring factions have been lobbying to sway the body of voters one way or another.

magicalhippo 2y ago

Few works of art are great across all the metrics. A book (or a movie) can have a great overall premise and structure, but have lacking dialog, flow or other issues. Is it good? Perhaps for me, but not for you. I just watched Lost Highway in the theaters. I had never had a chance to watch it on the big screen before, and I brought my SO. I love the movie since there's no clear cut interpretation, yet it also feels accessible. My SO hadn't seen it before, and while she thought it was fine overall, she really disliked that there isn't a canonical "this is what happened and this is what the things mean" explanation. The very thing that made me love the movie.

B1FF_PSUVM 2y ago

Hugo awards are by popular vote of fans attending conventions, and SF mostly prided itself on being about ideas, so you'll get what caught most people's fancy at the time.

jccooper 2y ago

Hugo voters are members of the World Science Fiction Society (who are mostly Worldcon attendees). Which is to say, voters for that are chosen for enthusiasm for the genre, not taste.

_carbyau_ 2y ago

I have come to accept that most books are good at something, and maybe even a few things, but not so great at many things. I embarked on a similar "read the Hugos" adventure and much of it is great in a sci-fi premise - understandable - but the characters or pacing or unfolding story is meh. Example, The Wanderer by Fritz Leiber [0] is a great exposition of gravitational effects when a planet-sized object appears in the sky nearby earth. Characters and unfolding story are meh. I pictured it as a C-grade 60's movie with stilted acting. But the way the earth was reacting and the moon coming apart was a great fictional invention and the way it was done was novel at the time! In similar vein, Conan stories are great fantasy adventures with well described fights, battles, scenes. I've never found a better author to describe a fight - or a battle between armies - with enough detail to make it interesting and exciting and yet in relatively few words. I've also never read stories as sexist and racist... but I don't go out of my way to look for that I guess. I accepted it was written in the day it was and had to sort the wheat from the chaff. [0] https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/21808426 https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/21808426

dunham 2y ago

I did the same a couple of decades ago and enjoyed it. It was especially interesting to see a slice of early sci-fi. It's been a while, but I remember enjoying "The Big Time" and Connie Willis' books.

somenameforme 2y ago

Not to be the one to point out the pink elephant, but the Hugo Awards became somewhat politicized a decade or so ago and identity politics started to feature heavily into selections. If your criteria doesn't include that then the awards are now probably meaningless. But go back to the past, and there's a reason they used to have such prestige associated with them. For instance in the 60s some winners were Starship Troopers, Man in the High Castle, Stranger in a Strange Land, Dune, and The Moon is a Harsh Mistress! Come to think of it not sure if that says more about the 60s or the award though. Cripes there was something in the water back then.

watwut 2y ago
Yes, 60s famous as period when the gender of the author or characters did not mattered in the slightest. It was totally only later when they started to matter, sure.
- kurisufag 2y ago
  identity politics sneakily becoming a required element in media (whether that be for genuine representation reasons, appeals to that market, whatever) isn't a necessary result of equitability in writing.
  - watwut 2y ago
    Compared to era when female characters and writers were excluded openly ... I mean common. It is absurd to use the era where identity (gender, race) was key determinant of what will happen, before anything else.
    - machomaster 2y ago
      Do you have any evidence that such alleged exclusion of good writing was common and disproportional compared to male writers?
- somenameforme 2y ago
  Of course it mattered, but it didn't define the results. Le Guin won it multiple times. And as far back as 1956, the third Hugo ever, a female author made it to the short list. But they weren't winning or being nominated because of their sex. They were just exceptional authors who happened to be female, which is as it should be.

akvadrako 2y ago

I've noticed the same thing, especially with Hugo awards. On the other hand my favorite SF author, Gene Wolfe, has also won many other awards, like the Nebula and Locus awards. So you can find good stuff by using the awards as a starting point.

disgruntledphd2 2y ago

Huh, that's interesting. I read a lot of Hugo winning stuff and always found them well written even if not massively engaging.

dlcarrier 2y ago

When awarding bodies grow in popularity, their roles switch from populist to elitist, as their membership becomes more elite. This hit the Hugo awards extra hard, because their voting method is especially vulnerable to lobbying, and warring factions have been lobbying to sway the body of voters one way or another.