35 ms·

Do we still play pretend that the law and constitution mean something ? Once a country goes bananas all things are possible

petesergeant 2y ago
Yes. Trump gets away with shit because he’s deeply charismatic and his most ardent supporters think he’s the next coming of Christ. Elon has some super fans but not like that. All this also isn’t occurring in a vacuum: the GOP is full of highly ambitious people who won’t want the competition for their own run. GOP lost house and senate seats they could have won behind another candidate. Trump is useful to the party until he’s not. Elon is of zero use at all to the party.
- matwood 2y ago
  > Trump gets away with shit because he’s deeply charismatic This needs to be said more. Trump is a singular force in our current politics. Even people who despise Trump will admit that one on one and in small groups he’s incredibly charismatic and likable. Bill Clinton comes to mind as another POTUS with just a super high level of charisma. Musk on the other hand is incredibly awkward and would have very little broad appeal.
  - oefnak 2y ago
    Are you serious? I find him literally repulsive. Incredible that some people would call that charismatic.
    - lawn 2y ago
      It's the cult leader aura. For those infected he's articulate and smart. For those outside the cult he's a demented bumbling fool.
    - matwood 2y ago
      I do also, but I've heard it said a few times from different people who have interviewed him or been around him in small group situations. And it's been said to caution people who continue to underestimate his appeal.
      - dpkirchner 2y ago
        Those are the same people that say he's highly religious (specifically Christian). They're a bizarre set.
  - dpkirchner 2y ago
    > Trump is a singular force in our current politics. I hope you're right. He will eventually die. Who has enough clout to take his place without splitting the Republican Party?
    - jfengel 2y ago
      It could well be Musk. Trump already set the precedent of an outsider avoiding the usual party splits. The definition of "natural born" has never been tested and could well be redefined to be meaningless.
      - dpkirchner 2y ago
        It'd be interesting to see them simultaneously discard birthright citizenship and the natural born requirement. I'm sure at least someone in the party will try, there's really no low they won't reach for.
- cassepipe 2y ago
  I suspect it must be what charisma looks like in a social environment I am not a part of because for the life of me I cannot see it as charisma, all I hear is barely coherent ramblings, in a weird tone.
TeMPOraL 2y ago
Yes. If enough of you in the US stop "playing pretend" and stop believing in law and constitution meaning something more often than not, your country will instantly go up in flames (and probably take a chunk of the rest of the world with it).
- toast0 2y ago
  I mean, this isn't the first time leadership has ignored the constitutuon, and the country has rarely gone up in flames. The Chinese Exclusion Act and the Internment of Japanese Americans into concentration camps strike me as particularly infamous, and the Second Red Scare (or McCarthyism) involved a lot of unconstitutional conduct as well. But I'm sure there's lots of other things, too. Hopefully, past experience will repeat and after a brief period, there will be a return to the traditions of rule of law and respect for the constitution.
  - TeMPOraL 2y ago
    You're right. I'm just addressing GP's hyperbole taken straight: > Do we still play pretend that the law and constitution mean something Leadership ignoring constitution in some areas is a problem, but as long as law is generally still seen as working, and expected to work, in everyone's daily dealings, things aren't bad. They may not be fine, but can be improved. However, once enough people stop believing law and constitution matter in general, that's when they actually stop working, because they're just words on paper, and their only power stems from everyone expecting everyone else experts them to have authority.

petesergeant 2y ago

Yes. Trump gets away with shit because he’s deeply charismatic and his most ardent supporters think he’s the next coming of Christ. Elon has some super fans but not like that. All this also isn’t occurring in a vacuum: the GOP is full of highly ambitious people who won’t want the competition for their own run. GOP lost house and senate seats they could have won behind another candidate. Trump is useful to the party until he’s not. Elon is of zero use at all to the party.

matwood 2y ago
> Trump gets away with shit because he’s deeply charismatic This needs to be said more. Trump is a singular force in our current politics. Even people who despise Trump will admit that one on one and in small groups he’s incredibly charismatic and likable. Bill Clinton comes to mind as another POTUS with just a super high level of charisma. Musk on the other hand is incredibly awkward and would have very little broad appeal.
- oefnak 2y ago
  Are you serious? I find him literally repulsive. Incredible that some people would call that charismatic.
  - lawn 2y ago
    It's the cult leader aura. For those infected he's articulate and smart. For those outside the cult he's a demented bumbling fool.
  - matwood 2y ago
    I do also, but I've heard it said a few times from different people who have interviewed him or been around him in small group situations. And it's been said to caution people who continue to underestimate his appeal.
    - dpkirchner 2y ago
      Those are the same people that say he's highly religious (specifically Christian). They're a bizarre set.
- dpkirchner 2y ago
  > Trump is a singular force in our current politics. I hope you're right. He will eventually die. Who has enough clout to take his place without splitting the Republican Party?
  - jfengel 2y ago
    It could well be Musk. Trump already set the precedent of an outsider avoiding the usual party splits. The definition of "natural born" has never been tested and could well be redefined to be meaningless.
    - dpkirchner 2y ago
      It'd be interesting to see them simultaneously discard birthright citizenship and the natural born requirement. I'm sure at least someone in the party will try, there's really no low they won't reach for.
cassepipe 2y ago
I suspect it must be what charisma looks like in a social environment I am not a part of because for the life of me I cannot see it as charisma, all I hear is barely coherent ramblings, in a weird tone.

TeMPOraL 2y ago

Yes. If enough of you in the US stop "playing pretend" and stop believing in law and constitution meaning something more often than not, your country will instantly go up in flames (and probably take a chunk of the rest of the world with it).

toast0 2y ago
I mean, this isn't the first time leadership has ignored the constitutuon, and the country has rarely gone up in flames. The Chinese Exclusion Act and the Internment of Japanese Americans into concentration camps strike me as particularly infamous, and the Second Red Scare (or McCarthyism) involved a lot of unconstitutional conduct as well. But I'm sure there's lots of other things, too. Hopefully, past experience will repeat and after a brief period, there will be a return to the traditions of rule of law and respect for the constitution.
- TeMPOraL 2y ago
  You're right. I'm just addressing GP's hyperbole taken straight: > Do we still play pretend that the law and constitution mean something Leadership ignoring constitution in some areas is a problem, but as long as law is generally still seen as working, and expected to work, in everyone's daily dealings, things aren't bad. They may not be fine, but can be improved. However, once enough people stop believing law and constitution matter in general, that's when they actually stop working, because they're just words on paper, and their only power stems from everyone expecting everyone else experts them to have authority.