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The Marco.org Review of John Siracusa’s Review of OS X 10.8 Mountain Lion
- stephengillie 14y agoIt's highly legible!
- binaryorganic 14y ago"which Apple invented completely on their own." priceless.
- scorpion032 14y agoThat one satirical expression was enough to get me a laugh and upvote it. I dont see how so many people here that are calling it, dont see it.
- JonLim 14y ago> "In my testing, reading the 10.8 review took approximately 128 minutes. But I walked my dog briefly in the middle." > "At medium brightness, my iPad (3rd-generation) battery fell from 73% to 56% while I read the review on it." I... I think I love Marco Arment. A great way to start my day, thanks for the chuckles, Marco.
- brusch 14y agoFunny - I've stopped reading every article from the marco.org site. I can't stand his style and I really can't stand his blind Apple - cult thinking. But to everyone his own's.
- achompas 14y agoI can't stand his style and I really can't stand his blind Apple - cult thinking. He is leap years better than Gruber and Daring Fireball. His posts are witty without being cynical, and he's frank without being rude. He also has much more to say on entrepreneurship (given his first-hand experience with the App Store).
- wyclif 14y agoI agree; I've thought for a long time that as far as Apple Cult bloggers go, he's better than Gruber on a number of fronts: less groupthink, less cynicism, less David Foster Wallace fanboyism, and less irrational Google hatred. The only thing Gruber has going for him now IMO is his continued Stanley Kubrick advocacy.
- guelo 14y agoGruber does seem to have good inside Apple sources which makes some his predictions worth reading. He's almost an official Apple info release channel.
- toyg 14y ago"Almost"? He clearly coordinates with Apple people. He's to Apple what a surrogate is to a presidential candidate: an attack dog free to say what the candidate will only think. (Note: I don't dislike it, I just take him for the biased source he is.)
- Tyrannosaurs 14y ago> (Note: I don't dislike it, I just take him for the biased source he is.) This is the way to handle it. Gruber is what he is. The fact he spends so much time writing about Apple is both why you should read him if you're interested in Apple (because he's got the time, the knowledge and to a degree the access to have some genuine insight) and why you should be slightly sceptical about what he has to say (because it's almost impossible to spend that much time looking closely at something and not end up taking a side). Plus he's not exactly secretive about his views. Anyone who has read more than 100 words he's written or quoted should be pretty clear about where he's coming from.
- ToesByNoon 14y agoWhy is it irrational to hate Google?
- mattacular 14y ago
- technoslut 14y agoI expect him to have certain biases but I don't find it unbearable like I do with Benjamin Brooks and Matt Gemmell where I always get a sense of anger, contempt and general negativity in their writing.
- ruswick 14y agoMarco is far more negative then Ben Brooks. Whereas I think Ben plays up the negativity because it's his shtick, Marco is just genuinely very sarcastic, passive-aggressive and negative in general.
- technoslut 14y agoThat's your opinion. I've read a post from Ben Brooks calling anyone who uses a stylus on an iPad an idiot. In that time frame, Marco bought a Cosmonaut stylus and enjoyed it. A month or two later, Brooks bought the same. It didn't bother me that he was wrong. It bothered me that he called everyone an idiot for using a stylus on an iPad. This is the kind of person who will criticize sooner than give thought. I would not want to read what he has to offer or be around him for any length of time. This is one of many posts of his site or his Twitter account.
- da_n 14y agoHey, Engadget comments called, they want you back.
- leephillips 14y ago"blind Apple - cult thinking" He treats us to this deadpan irony: "it’s a good opportunity to try a read-later method such as Safari’s Reading List, which Apple invented completely on their own." That clearly puts the lie to your assessment.
- pyre 14y ago> This is not a quick read, so it’s a good opportunity > to try a read-later method such as Safari’s Reading > List, which Apple invented completely on their own. This bit of sarcasm is definitely not towing the Apple Groupthink line.
- telcodud 14y agoI take it then that it was invented by Marco?
- robterrell 14y agoI can't tell if you're being sarcastic or just unaware that Marco is the developer of Instapaper.
- cag_ii 14y agoI think he's just pointing out that "read later" style bookmarks/link sites have been around for a long time, much longer than instapaper, as a matter of fact.
- chipotle_coyote 14y agoI don't think there have been services like Instapaper around "much longer than Instapaper." I'm not sure Instapaper was the first of its kind, but it was certainly one of the first.
- stephencanon 14y agoToeing the line. </pedantry>
- ruswick 14y agoI've done the same. It's more so because he seems very passive -aggressive and often offers no support for his views. It's not that his views are necessarily wrong, but most everything he writes is an assertion with no evidence or something that he has determined intuitively. I care about people who are able to give insights through logic and data. That's why I read Asymco and listen to Hypercritical with John Siracusa. Those are both very logical, very objective people. Marco usually just throws out opinions and rarely offers real insight. There's just no reason for me to respect his writing when he offers nothing but his own thoughts and no support. This is especially true because the things he writes are often pseudo-correct or highly debatable. But my real problem is how he responds to his criticism. On several occasions I've challenged his arguments or asked him to elaborate via Twitter. His response is usually to get angry, make some kind of sarcastic remark at me, and treat me as if I were antagonizing him. It's an incredibly childish response. It's as if anyone who tries to debate his points is not only wrong, but a dick as well. Frankly, if his is unwilling to accept critiques and entertain a discussion, why does he even blog? More importantly, why should I read him?
- smackfu 14y agoI like his Apple stuff, but on his podcast sometimes he wanders into Windows territory, despite basically not knowing any Windows users, and not using Windows since XP. Not surprisingly, he ends up sounding pretty ignorant and I just fast forward.
- epo 14y ago"Funny - I've stopped reading every article from the marco.org site. I can't stand his style and I really can't stand his blind Apple - cult thinking. But to everyone his own's." So why even bother commenting? And if this is typical of your comments then I'm going to stop reading them because they are self-serving and content-free.
- deltasquared 14y agoWow, a Review-Reviewer-Review ^_^ Now, who reviews the reviewers reviewers reviewer?
- gwern 14y agoI started laughing at the first graph of wordcounts, as I realized what he was doing.
- brianwillis 14y ago>This is not a quick read, so it’s a good opportunity to try a read-later method such as Safari’s Reading List, which Apple invented completely on their own. ...was what did it for me.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- vl 14y agoYes, very pleasant surprise, completely unexpected humorous side of Marco. Wonderfully dry humor.
- Killswitch 14y agoBest review of a review ever. A+++ would read again!
- icebraining 14y agoThanks for the review.
- unreal37 14y agoLove the graph comparing word lengths of previous OS X reviews.
- cwp 14y agoYes. But it kills me that he could present such a graph, and then fail to comment on the peak at 10.4. That'll have to be a big issue when the reviews of this piece come out.
- bjcy 14y agoI love the text right below it. > This is not a quick read, so it’s a good opportunity to try a read-later method such as Safari’s Reading List, which Apple invented completely on their own. Oh so sweet.
- king_jester 14y agoHas anyone reviewed this review review yet? I don't want to waste my time over here.
- StavrosK 14y agoYes: Content-free. Avoid.
- nicholassmith 14y agoI'm going to review your review of Marco's review of the review. Light on discussion.
- nathell 14y ago"'"GOTO Considered Harmful" Considered Harmful' Considered Harmful?", anyone?
- gerrit 14y ago“Considered Harmful” Essays Considered Harmful: http://meyerweb.com/eric/comment/chech.html http://meyerweb.com/eric/comment/chech.html
- Graham24 14y agometa-meta hey.
- vide0star 14y agoA review of a review?
- lukeholder 14y agoMarco has perfected the followup blog entry HN spam. Even if it is hilarious and witty. He jumps on a hot topic and gets the page views.
- pgrote 14y agoHow is it spam? A relevant developer writing something humorous and pretty insightful.
- dfc 14y agoI agree it was funny but insightful?
- fredley 14y agoIf it really bothers you that much filter it out. I enjoyed the article, I'm glad HN directed me to it.
- lukeholder 14y agoI loved the article. Spam was probably a strong word. He has perfected the art of getting his blog to the top of HN by writing a meta article.
- masklinn 14y agoI'm pretty sure he does not care about HN, he's just horsing around with his blog and having a bit of fun with his reviewer reputation.
- nicholassmith 14y agoHe's said on podcasts he's not a fan of Hacker News comments, so I'm going to say he's not overly fussed on hitting the top of HN in general.
- stonemetal 14y ago
- aw3c2 14y agoI am honest: I don't get it. Is the reviewed review focused on meaningless metrics or why is this funny? I skimmed through a couple of pages and did not see any of that, in fact it seemed comprehensive if a bit subjective and fanboyish.
- fredley 14y agoI don't think it's parodying the use of metrics, it's parodying the extreme attention to detail.
- aprendo 14y agoNo, it's a quite serious (and quite good) review. Marco Arment is only teasing Siracusa.
- mdc 14y agoIf you listen to Marco's podcast, he'll occasionally say something like "I want to talk about this topic but Siracusa just talked about it on his podcast and did a great job so I'll be quick about it." It think this review-review is Marco's way of saying that he knows he's expected to comment on the new OSX and everyone should just go read Siracusa's review. Plus it was funny. edit: typo
- loire280 14y agoIt's also self-parody of Marco's exhaustively researched reviews - which are often focused on relatively mundane things like LED light bulbs, thermostats, and coffee gadgets.
- bitsoda 14y agoChrist does the HN community give Marco a lot of grief. He's like the LeBron James of this place.
- brusch 14y agoIf you are not really interested in Apple products - he's not a good source of information. And this article (without reading it) sounds really like he jumped the shark.
- booticon 14y agoYou're taking this way too seriously. Please, read the review. My interpretation is that it's Marco poking fun at Siracusa.
- weiran 14y agoWhy have you commented three times about an article you haven't read, won't read, and about a topic you admit you have no interest in?
- nicholassmith 14y agoUnless you've read the article how would you know whether he's jumped the shark?
- keithpeter 14y agoI thought it was a rather funny post, but that is because I know and appreciate the Siracusa reviews, and I understand the references. Satire and parody are generally reactionary.
- masklinn 14y agoWhich does not stop the HN community from voting it to the top, this is currently sitting at #2 with 473 points and 89 comments where the actual Siracusa review thread is #4 with 327 points and 74 comments. Make of this what you will.
- motoford 14y agoHas anyone noticed yet in the real Siracusa review that marco.org is the first link in a screenshot of Siracusa's reading list? Page 8
- caycep 14y agowhoa, this totally breaks the space-time continuum!
- Cyranix 14y agoAs amusing as the parody is, it's tough to beat the original. Honestly, who cares about an update to Chess?
- shinratdr 14y agoI do. Apple pulled Texas Hold 'Em from the iOS App Store some time back and that was their only iOS game. Likewise, Chess is their only Mac game. I expected it to be removed from the OS. Finding out that it got Game Centre integration is actually pretty interesting. Providing developers an example of the API in a working program is also a nice gesture. I bet you anything most OS X devs reading this review that plan on integrating Game Centre in their own Mac game fired up Chess to see it in action.
- frou_dh 14y agoIt's just sad that the actual review, which is tremendously interesting and substantial, has noticeably fewer votes than this, the #1 link. Is the oft-mentioned decline of HN a bunch of tiny cuts?
- pflats 14y agoSiracusa's review is expected, and I'm sure a lot of HN folks saw it coming. Despite the fact that it's new and comprehensive, it's not nearly as new and exciting as Marco's blog post. Plus, comedy will almost always do better than a review.
- drostie 14y agoThe actual review also is about half the minimum length of a novel[1], and as this review describes, takes two hours to read. In some ways I'll agree that it's appropriate because it "gratifies one's intellectual curiosity" or so, but it strikes me that we should amortize across the time spent on the subject. If you compare this to, say, spending two hours watching lectures from online courses, I am not sure the review of Mountain Lion really holds up. In that sense, the review-of-the-review indeed packs much more density-of-gratification than the review did. If the gratification density is to be reflected in the points value, then the points are justly apportioned. [1] I am basing this purely on the word count and the fact that NaNoWriMo requires 50,000 words to classify something as a novel; I have not checked to see how actual novels fare against this goal.
- eyhk 14y agoHN, why so serious?
- seivan 14y agoI love the fact that his review included code, just something small and trivial like that. Made my day more than slightly better. Can go to bed with a giant smile on my face.
- deleted 14y ago[deleted]
- mapgrep 14y ago"There have been a few architectural changes to John Siracusa’s OS X reviews as well. Siracusa has detailed the process in his separate explanatory blog post, because the review wasn’t long enough and he had more to say." HA