4 ms·
Proposed bill to make it a crime to download DeepSeek in the US
- ydlr 2y agoThere is no text of the bill, but based on its title, this could outlaw publishing any public AI research.
- verdverm 2y agoThe end of Arxiv... what fools and children these people are trying to outlaw this. It will hurt the US more
- febin 2y agoThe bill only restricts AI technology transfers to China, not the publication of public AI research.
- pbhjpbhj 2y agoAnd the Trump administration is canny, they know Chinese LLM researchers have no way to read documents published in English. /s
- UncleOxidant 2y agoAnd transfers from China as well. The relevant section: PROHIBITION ON IMPORTATION.—On and after the date that is 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the importation into the United States of artificial intelligence or generative artificial intelligence technology or intellectual property developed or produced in the People’s Republic of China is prohibited
- Kadin 2y agoThe bill doesn't do that. There's no need to invent problems that don't exist; we have enough as it is.
- unsnap_biceps 2y agoLink to the content is in https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42904980 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42904980
- t-writescode 2y agoI have ... concerns about how this information was found. Does anyone know the path to walk on the individual's website that gets you to the Word Press page?
- unsnap_biceps 2y agoI took a quick spin through the site and didn't find it. Perhaps it was posted on some social media site.
- sflanker 2y agoFull text here https://www.hawley.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Hawley-Decoupling-Americas-Artificial-Intelligence-Capabilities-from-China-Act.pdf https://www.hawley.senate.gov/wp-content/uploads/2025/01/Haw...
- minimaxir 2y agoI have several questions on why the PDF is named "C:\Users\ALL\AppData\Local\Temp\ALL25088.loc".
- lupire 2y agoThe US Congress uses Windows. The basename is the Bill ID. Probably downloaded from a server and then printed to PDF.
- tjalfi 2y agoMy guess is it was stored in a document management system[0] and then checked out locally to that path. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document_management_system https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Document_management_system
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- gtirloni 2y agoAnd the majority voted for this. Unbelievable.
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- lostmsu 2y agoWait, I thought this is just a proposal. What stage is this at?
- lgvln 2y agoWho or what is this bill trying to protect??
- userbinator 2y agoUS AI incumbents.
- thrill 2y agoCampaign contributors.
- 65 2y agoOpenAI
- anticensor 2y agoAI.com and el Goog.
- stiltzkin 2y ago[dead]
- ranger_danger 2y agoSponsored by Josh Hawley, the guy who sent fundraising messages from inside the Capitol during Jan 6.
- UncleOxidant 2y agoSomehow it seems relevant that he shares the name "Hawley" with the guy who co-sponsored "Smoot-Hawley". Seems like this bill would be similarly destructive.
- boredpeter 2y agoWith the TikTok ban and now this idiotic bill we’re seeing the beginning of a censored US internet.
- guerrilla 2y agoHauwei before that, don't forget electric cars too. The US spent decades of propaganda on free markets and competition, but won't tolerate either.
- Kadin 2y agoThe US has never allowed unfettered foreign competition in its domestic market, and neither do most other nations (including, very notably, China). The US has always done what every other nation seeks to do, which is to try to obtain favorable trade terms for exports while restricting imports that would harm domestic business. This particular bill is idiotic, likely because it was spawned by an idiot. But the general concept of protecting domestic enterprises from foreign competition who are not subject to the same rules has always been part of trade policy.
- guerrilla 2y agoExactly, it's basically a law of nature, but significant resources were invested in brainwashing people with propaganda to the contrary. That's the problem, the hypocrisy, the irony - not how the world actually works, which may be entirely unavoidable.
- techjamie 2y agoSame sorts of laws are the reason why it's generally difficult to import really cheap vehicles from overseas unless they're of a certain age, Chinese or not. Classical example that gained publicity are Japanese "Kei Trucks" that can only be imported after they're 25 years old. And yeah, they cite safety as the reason. But as a motorcycle rider, I put a tank of explosive liquid against my crotch on a vehicle that will send me flying if one tire loses traction too badly with minimal safety mechanisms against it, and in my state I technically don't even have to wear a helmet. On the other end of the spectrum, the most popular cars in the nation are the size of a light tank, and will smash into you at center mass before throwing you underneath them if you get hit by one. Safety was never the concern.
- t-writescode 2y agoWasn't Isolationism the practice that was strongly, negatively spoken about when people were going through middle and high school as "the way to fall behind"? and "what all those people that didn't advance did for centuries and it harmed them"?
- choult 2y agoThe new administration seems hell-bent on repeating history, especially 30s Germany. Isolationism is the natural outcome of blaming "the other."
- llm_trw 2y agoIt wasn't the current administration that banned sale of advanced AI chips to China. Dragging us back to the 1930s seems to be a very bipartisan policy.
- beej71 2y agoWhile I don't agree with that move, there's a difference between banning exports and banning imports/what US citizens are allowed to download.
- pton_xd 2y ago... like banning ByteDance apps? Both parties are guilty here.
- beej71 2y agoAnd that, which I also disagree with, is different, still. With TikTok, US citizens were not banned from using the app, or downloading it from overseas.
- addicted 2y agoByteDance apps are not banned. ByteDance had an opportunity to sell TikTok to any company that isn’t based out of an enemy country that is known to have taken actions against the U.S. and its citizens.
- kylecazar 2y agoDoes it actually make it a crime to download DeepSeek? Does downloading and using a model qualify as r&d on behalf of it's creator? Because that's what this bill seems to be banning.
- emeraldd 2y agoThe actual text of the bill, referenced elsewhere, refers to import or export, which would theoretically make it illegal to download.
- mianos 2y agoBan on AI Technology Trade U.S. individuals and companies cannot import AI technology or intellectual property from China.
- UncleOxidant 2y agoThe relevant text from the bill: PROHIBITION ON IMPORTATION.—On and after the date that is 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the importation into the United States of artificial intelligence or generative artificial intelligence technology or intellectual property developed or produced in the People’s Republic of China is prohibited
- EVa5I7bHFq9mnYK 2y agoBut if you download a model locally, it doesn't spy for CCP. Only if you use an app and send your query to be executed in China. Lawmakers seem to not understand such simple matters.
- UncleOxidant 2y ago> Lawmakers seem to not understand such simple matters. That's an understatement. There's only one person in congress that I trust to even kind of understand these issues and that's Senator Ron Wyden.
- kylecazar 2y agoThanks. I had skipped to the Unlawful Acts section. Banning IP would also presumably render American companies unable to incorporate any advances that come from Chinese AI.
- llm_trw 2y agohttps://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNGdNlLQ0DGN0ctIo5Ma9gCrP53dqT7BI9fQgqgU-G5LIKjTEHzyFf8hvk&s=10 https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSNGdNl... But also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergod https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supergod
- Havoc 2y agoPlease do. It’s been slow the last couple weeks since it got popular
- noxs 2y agoThinking from a different perspective, if the Chinese government has banned import of NVIDIA GPU, or downloading U.S. made llm because of so called national security reasons, DeepSeek certainly won't make such progress. Today we are even more closed than CCP, what a joke. These elites'/attorney politicians just can't stop their arrogant attitude towards a non-western country's achievement. This is just going to destroy the industry at U.S. We have seen examples of EV and Drones already.
- jimmydoe 2y agoThere's no way one country continue to be the only super power / innovation center, one way or the other, we will get to the next world order of innovation. and the path to the new order will not be comfortable, denying reality as a self-defense mechanism will be inevitable for a period of time, hopefully not too long.
- UncleOxidant 2y agoUnless they're prepared to build The Great Firewall around America it's kind of cute that they think they can stop us from downloading these models. And of course stupid to want to try to stop us because if there's something to be learned from them they need to be distributed widely so that we can figure out what they've done and where they're headed.
- tempestn 2y agoIf there's a law against downloading or possessing it, and they're serious about enforcing it, they absolutely can stop you. Yes you could still do it, and maybe even avoid detection, but would you, if getting caught meant prison time?
- emporas 2y agoThey can sue 3000 people for millions of damages, and that will have the expected effect of banning any illicit downloading of files. I mean, it worked for torrents back in 2002, why shouldn't it work for downloading LLM files? The funny thing is, open source A.I. music doesn't even exist yet, and at some point 2005 to 2008, music related queries were number 1 in google search. When a good music program will be released, no person on the planet will even think of downloading illegal music A.I.s.
- 827a 2y ago> (a) PROHIBITION ON IMPORTATION On and after the date that is 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the importation into the United States of artificial intelligence or generative artificial intelligence technology or intellectual property developed or produced in the People’s Republic of China is prohibited. > (b) PROHIBITION ON EXPORT.—On and after the date that is 180 days after the date of the enactment of this Act, the export, reexport, or in-country transfer of artificial intelligence or generative artificial intelligence technology or intellectual property to or within the People’s Republic of China is prohibited. This seems worded significantly more broadly than just artificial intelligence; it covers any "intellectual property" at all? Couldn't this prohibit, for example, Apple's ability to sell the iPhone or distribute iOS in China?
- Borealid 2y agoEnglish has ambiguous logical grouping. Two of the many parses of the relevant clauses are: A) (artificial intelligence or generative artificial intelligence) (technology or intellectual property) B) (artificial intelligence) or (generative artificial intelligence technology) or (intellectual property) The clear intent is A, with terrible wording. You are reading it as B.
- rmrf100 2y agois it ok to use DeepSeek model on azure/aws/nvidia/groq?
- 65 2y agoExpected. OpenAI needs to manufacture a monopoly somehow!
- sega_sai 2y agoI am wondering, at what point we will start observing economic effects from this kind of governance we are seeing now and in the last couple of weeks. I feel that only the economic crisis/slump may force to change course from the ongoing transformation to totalitarianism. Unfortunately there is no guarantee that there will be economic effects. For example many companies tried to stay in Russia long after Russia started the war in Ukraine, and many left only after significant pressure.
- ffsm8 2y agoAn economic effect is always very delayed. The stock markets may react relatively quickly, but the actual effect often takes a pretty long time to be reflected in GDP or similar metrics. For example, Brexit also took several years before even the last fishermen had to accept that things did not get better. So even if Trump was to entirely ruin the econnomy, it's unlikely it'll really be felt before he's out of office again. though there is the occasional example that actually fucks it up to a degree that things escalate even within their ruling period - i.e. canadas renting crisis right now
- sega_sai 2y agoGood points. I guess if the bond markers react and obtaining new or refinancing old debt becomes more expensive, I can see how that can affect things quicker. Especially given the role of treasuries in all financial markets.
- drewcoo 2y agoLike the Crypto Wars but in reverse? Where can I get the t-shirt?
- makerdiety 2y agoAll attempts to propagate the liberal-democratic policy that is the repression of capital are countered by the nomadic drive for profit. What is more concerning than a bunch of inept fat cops is the black markets that naturally arise within legitimate white collar enterprises that will have appeared to have been compliant with the democratic imposition. The Al Capones of the next level of software development should be capable enough to spot the flaws and opportunities that can be discovered in the democratic world-system. This intelligence, awareness, and sensibility includes the critique of what mistake the current authoritarian hegemony will have made to result in the demise of faith in legislative process and congressional determination. One important news to note is that the ones sponsoring prohibitions of effective engineering implementations are simply the criminals that got a head start in the cosmopolitan grab for economic power. This is consistent with the theory that techno-commercial incumbents dislike competition, likely because they don't really deserve their top positions and now they have to fight against nature's angry wraith which dislikes impostors in the field of technology and science. A really disorienting war between very cunning capitalists to either watch or participate in, if you can keep up with the dynamics. edit: It's okay if a repulsive nerd like Sam Altman uses a fraction of his billionaire wealth to ban DeepSeek. You can still be productive with a distilled seven billion parameter model like Mistral. The hacker spirit is about being resourceful and looking for ways to do a lot with little, despite the secrets being hidden through some temporary epistemological case.
- elmo8888 2y agoWhat's silly about this is, if a company that wants to publicize can meet / beat the US benchmarks, then who knows what some state owned entity that's performing R&D in the background could easily achieve. Any reactions made by the US is a waste of time, just focus on pushing the US technology further and leapfrog.
- nurettin 2y agoWhat if I vpn to a network in the US, then control a host in Finland through Hetzner? Is that still considered "Download deepseek in the US"?
- deleted 2y ago[deleted]
- hmans 2y ago[dead]