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Split the beliefs from the crime. A bunch of murderers were caught. Given they are dangerous killers, one killing a witness and one faking their death yeah they

Split the beliefs from the crime. A bunch of murderers were caught. Given they are dangerous killers, one killing a witness and one faking their death yeah they should get warrants.

__turbobrew__ 2y ago
It appears the ven diagram of the beliefs and crimes overlap quite a bit. Sometimes the beliefs are that certain crimes should be committed. This is a free country (disputably) and you should be able to think and say whatever you want, but I also think it is reasonable for law enforcement in the investigation of said crimes to also investigate links to other members in the movement.
- nejsjsjsbsb 2y ago
  Probable cause is the key term here. Cops can do a lot without it. They can choose what leads to follow. But not sure what you are suggesting with respect to wiretapping.
- deleted 2y ago
  [deleted]
- concordDance 2y ago
  > It appears the ven diagram of the beliefs and crimes overlap quite a bit. There are hundreds of thousands of rationalists (to a greater or lesser extent). Very few go shoot people.
  - __turbobrew__ 2y ago
    I didn’t say “rationalist” should be investigated, I said “zizian” which is a small personality cult of ziz.
  - victorbjorklund 2y ago
    How many nazis are there in the world? Millions? How many have shoot people? A handful
  - kragen 2y ago
    The Zizians are the ones whose beliefs said that shooting people was justified, not the "rationalists".
- Muromec 2y ago
  > but I also think it is reasonable for law enforcement in the investigation of said crimes to also investigate links to other members in the movement. It doesn't work. Every single time a radicalized member of the marginalized community does this kind of crime, the numbered-letter-agency dutifully reports, that they knew the person to be radicalized, but had nothing to act on, because a lot of people have weird violence-approving beliefs, talk about them openly or with friends and very few actually hijack a Boeing or two. Those who plan to do things also happen to learn about op-sec mistakes of those caught before them. Israel knew about Hamas, and the russian empire of 19th century knew about anarchists. Pouring a lot of resources into suppressing all of that didn't do jack shit in the long term.
liftIO 2y ago
> Split the beliefs from the crime. Pretty hard to do that when the beliefs explicitly endorse murder. Ziz used to run a blog on which she made thinly veiled death threats, argued for a personal philosophy of hair-trigger escalation and massive retribution, raged at the rationalist community for not agreeing with her on that philosophy and on theories of transness, and considered most people on Earth to be irredeemably evil for eating meat.
victorbjorklund 2y ago
Can you really split the beliefs of the nazi movement in germany in 1940 from the crimes the believers committed?

Split the beliefs from the crime. A bunch of murderers were caught. Given they are dangerous killers, one killing a witness and one faking their death yeah they should get warrants.

__turbobrew__ 2y ago

It appears the ven diagram of the beliefs and crimes overlap quite a bit. Sometimes the beliefs are that certain crimes should be committed. This is a free country (disputably) and you should be able to think and say whatever you want, but I also think it is reasonable for law enforcement in the investigation of said crimes to also investigate links to other members in the movement.

nejsjsjsbsb 2y ago
Probable cause is the key term here. Cops can do a lot without it. They can choose what leads to follow. But not sure what you are suggesting with respect to wiretapping.
deleted 2y ago
[deleted]
concordDance 2y ago
> It appears the ven diagram of the beliefs and crimes overlap quite a bit. There are hundreds of thousands of rationalists (to a greater or lesser extent). Very few go shoot people.
- __turbobrew__ 2y ago
  I didn’t say “rationalist” should be investigated, I said “zizian” which is a small personality cult of ziz.
- victorbjorklund 2y ago
  How many nazis are there in the world? Millions? How many have shoot people? A handful
- kragen 2y ago
  The Zizians are the ones whose beliefs said that shooting people was justified, not the "rationalists".
Muromec 2y ago
> but I also think it is reasonable for law enforcement in the investigation of said crimes to also investigate links to other members in the movement. It doesn't work. Every single time a radicalized member of the marginalized community does this kind of crime, the numbered-letter-agency dutifully reports, that they knew the person to be radicalized, but had nothing to act on, because a lot of people have weird violence-approving beliefs, talk about them openly or with friends and very few actually hijack a Boeing or two. Those who plan to do things also happen to learn about op-sec mistakes of those caught before them. Israel knew about Hamas, and the russian empire of 19th century knew about anarchists. Pouring a lot of resources into suppressing all of that didn't do jack shit in the long term.

liftIO 2y ago

> Split the beliefs from the crime. Pretty hard to do that when the beliefs explicitly endorse murder. Ziz used to run a blog on which she made thinly veiled death threats, argued for a personal philosophy of hair-trigger escalation and massive retribution, raged at the rationalist community for not agreeing with her on that philosophy and on theories of transness, and considered most people on Earth to be irredeemably evil for eating meat.

victorbjorklund 2y ago

Can you really split the beliefs of the nazi movement in germany in 1940 from the crimes the believers committed?