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The comment about an "email chain could have been a 30-second chit chat" is such a straw-man argument. On top of that, forcing everyone to commute up to an hour

The comment about an "email chain could have been a 30-second chit chat" is such a straw-man argument. On top of that, forcing everyone to commute up to an hour each way is a blatant disregard for people's personal time. How productive would the workforce be if the commute counted as work hours?

juujian 2y ago
Hate that. Yes, some issue can be resolver faster by talking in person, but that can be accomplished by a phone call, too. Just like a face to face conversation can end in an hour of gossip. How's that for more efficient?
- ghaff 2y ago
  Back when a lot of my work conversations were with sales reps and system engineers over the phone, certain reps in particular would take 10 minutes to get to a point where they could have been handled in a minute with an internal email. Though, yes, sometimes the real-time conversation was useful.
  - SoftTalker 2y ago
    Yep. Some people are just the "let's hop on a call" type and others are "send me an email." If these people need to talk to each other it's difficult.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
    Sales are a different breed of people. Sales is hard. For some it comes naturally, others have had to work at it. A good sales person is valuable, and a good relationship with a sales person is very valuable, especially to those of us of the engineering breed. Give them the time, build the relationships, could be worth the effort.
    - ghaff 2y ago
      On a busy day, I resented it sometimes. And there were a few who, when I got a call from them, I silently sighed. But, as a product manager, keeping field people happy was part of my job and I mostly did.
ghaff 2y ago
Except for the most part, commuting has never counted as work hours except in particular situations like billable hours for some professions.
- nativeit 2y ago
  If: (conjunction) in case that; granting or supposing that; on condition that:
- yoyohello13 2y ago
  I unironically think they should be. It will never happen, but one can dream.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    That seems like it would result in employers refusing to hire people who don't live close to the office.
    - WillDaSilva 2y ago
      While the downsides of this are obvious, I wonder if in the long run this would push our cities towards better designs, by encouraging the mixing of residential and office buildings, and by encouraging improvements to implementing public transit that can quickly and efficiently move a dense population between their homes and their jobs. It probably wouldn't work, but I can dream.
      - CalRobert 2y ago
        That sounds great, and I care enough about this that I moved somewhere with well-designed transit, but I still think it's a problematic policy. Some people might want to live in a bigger place further out, and if they're willing to make the long commute (and pay for its negative externalities, which most aren't) then I don't see why they can't. I actually prefer to bike to work, but I doubt any employer would be willing to give me my hourly rate for that...
  - 2y ago
russdill 2y ago
And now will real time collaboration tools it doesn't even need to be an email chain
- nickff 2y ago
  Except when the co-worker you need to collaborate with is doing their laundry, gardening, or picking their kid up from school.
  - russdill 2y ago
    It's fine, teams is on Android too.
elric 2y ago
And of course, the email chain gives everyone time to think on the problem and construct a sensible reply, without interrupting anyone. As opposed to some manager walking up to your desk while you're neck deep in concentration, only to ask you a retarded question that should have been an email.
- A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
  And, not mentioned explicitly anywhere in the discussion, email is a proof of sorts come a dispute time. Chat in the hallway won't be captured in a deposition or at least not as much more than 'he said, she said'.
olddustytrail 2y ago
I thought it was funny in a "This email could have been a meeting" type way...
John23832 2y ago
The solution is as simple as responding on slack/teams/etc in reasonable time during work hours.
rdtsc 2y ago
> The comment about an "email chain could have been a 30-second chit chat" is such a straw-man argument. I imagine them hardly holding back laughter when they say it. It's such a bogus straw-man they have to know it makes them look stupid. If in-person communication was such a great boon for the company how much had they invested in the last 3 years in travel budgets for teams, to meet in person? Nothing? Even lowered it? Well, there you go, that explains exactly that's a completely bogus claim.
binary_slinger 2y ago
> On top of that, forcing everyone to commute up to an hour each way is a blatant disregard for people's personal time. Commuting is dangerous and stressful. Stressed employees cannot perform their best. It is in a company's best interest to reduce stress and danger.

juujian 2y ago

Hate that. Yes, some issue can be resolver faster by talking in person, but that can be accomplished by a phone call, too. Just like a face to face conversation can end in an hour of gossip. How's that for more efficient?

ghaff 2y ago
Back when a lot of my work conversations were with sales reps and system engineers over the phone, certain reps in particular would take 10 minutes to get to a point where they could have been handled in a minute with an internal email. Though, yes, sometimes the real-time conversation was useful.
- SoftTalker 2y ago
  Yep. Some people are just the "let's hop on a call" type and others are "send me an email." If these people need to talk to each other it's difficult.
- TheSpiceIsLife 2y ago
  Sales are a different breed of people. Sales is hard. For some it comes naturally, others have had to work at it. A good sales person is valuable, and a good relationship with a sales person is very valuable, especially to those of us of the engineering breed. Give them the time, build the relationships, could be worth the effort.
  - ghaff 2y ago
    On a busy day, I resented it sometimes. And there were a few who, when I got a call from them, I silently sighed. But, as a product manager, keeping field people happy was part of my job and I mostly did.

ghaff 2y ago

Except for the most part, commuting has never counted as work hours except in particular situations like billable hours for some professions.

nativeit 2y ago
If: (conjunction) in case that; granting or supposing that; on condition that:
yoyohello13 2y ago
I unironically think they should be. It will never happen, but one can dream.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  That seems like it would result in employers refusing to hire people who don't live close to the office.
  - WillDaSilva 2y ago
    While the downsides of this are obvious, I wonder if in the long run this would push our cities towards better designs, by encouraging the mixing of residential and office buildings, and by encouraging improvements to implementing public transit that can quickly and efficiently move a dense population between their homes and their jobs. It probably wouldn't work, but I can dream.
    - CalRobert 2y ago
      That sounds great, and I care enough about this that I moved somewhere with well-designed transit, but I still think it's a problematic policy. Some people might want to live in a bigger place further out, and if they're willing to make the long commute (and pay for its negative externalities, which most aren't) then I don't see why they can't. I actually prefer to bike to work, but I doubt any employer would be willing to give me my hourly rate for that...
- 2y ago

russdill 2y ago

And now will real time collaboration tools it doesn't even need to be an email chain

nickff 2y ago
Except when the co-worker you need to collaborate with is doing their laundry, gardening, or picking their kid up from school.
- russdill 2y ago
  It's fine, teams is on Android too.

elric 2y ago

And of course, the email chain gives everyone time to think on the problem and construct a sensible reply, without interrupting anyone. As opposed to some manager walking up to your desk while you're neck deep in concentration, only to ask you a retarded question that should have been an email.

A4ET8a8uTh0_v2 2y ago
And, not mentioned explicitly anywhere in the discussion, email is a proof of sorts come a dispute time. Chat in the hallway won't be captured in a deposition or at least not as much more than 'he said, she said'.

olddustytrail 2y ago

I thought it was funny in a "This email could have been a meeting" type way...

John23832 2y ago

The solution is as simple as responding on slack/teams/etc in reasonable time during work hours.

rdtsc 2y ago

> The comment about an "email chain could have been a 30-second chit chat" is such a straw-man argument. I imagine them hardly holding back laughter when they say it. It's such a bogus straw-man they have to know it makes them look stupid. If in-person communication was such a great boon for the company how much had they invested in the last 3 years in travel budgets for teams, to meet in person? Nothing? Even lowered it? Well, there you go, that explains exactly that's a completely bogus claim.

binary_slinger 2y ago

> On top of that, forcing everyone to commute up to an hour each way is a blatant disregard for people's personal time. Commuting is dangerous and stressful. Stressed employees cannot perform their best. It is in a company's best interest to reduce stress and danger.