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Protest doesn't do anything. I marched plenty and it accomplished nothing except letting like-minded people blow off a bit of steam and feel like something we d

Protest doesn't do anything. I marched plenty and it accomplished nothing except letting like-minded people blow off a bit of steam and feel like something we did mattered. If anything it was just a distraction.

9283409232 2y ago
The answer is a general strike. This will never happen in the US though.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  Hard to strike when your boss can make you and your kid homeless. Housing precarity is a useful tool of control.
  - 9283409232 2y ago
    According to this[0], they want around 4% of Americans to agree to a general strike. The problem is the people who are most capable of surviving a general strike are not the same group that has the most impact in a general strike. [0] https://generalstrikeus.com/ https://generalstrikeus.com/
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    Wow. My grandfather is turning over in his grave. He suffered not only starvation and homelessness while striking against the coral companies of Pennsylvania, he was also beaten. If they have instilled this much cowardliness in you they have won. Imagine you’re kid looking at what you wrote twenty years from now and think of how he/she would think of you. Courageous or coward?
    - CalRobert 2y ago
      I don't know. I am a coward I guess, I emigrated. I think my kids will be glad they didn't grow up in the US. Good for your grandfather though.
      - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
        [flagged]
      - 9283409232 2y ago
        You are but so is most of America. And there will be no safe place to emigrate when there are wars everywhere.
        FollowingTheDao 2y ago
        People don’t understand how remarkably easy it is to be homeless. Believe me because I was homeless for four years. The fear they have instilled in them is what’s keeping them cowards.
    - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
      For reference https://coalpail.com/coal-forum/viewtopic.php?t=1422 https://coalpail.com/coal-forum/viewtopic.php?t=1422
diggan 2y ago
> Protest doesn't do anything. Most rights that workers have today have been earned through protesting (and sometimes the bloody consequence of protesting while the state is resisting wanted changes). Protests only "doesn't do anything" when you don't do it enough or give up. Maybe I'm too European to understand, but the "pacifist" approach of the US working class seems to not be working out great.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  Protest works when it’s backed by a threat. “Do what we want or we will remove you from power”. What we have now is “do what we want or we’ll be sad”. The pitchforks aren’t just for show!! And I’ve lived in Europe for over a decade now and frankly much of Europe is painfully naive about how much people in power care about protestors waving clever signs.
  - diggan 2y ago
    > And I’ve lived in Europe for over a decade now and frankly much of Europe is painfully naive about how much people in power care about protestors waving clever signs. I guess the same goes the other way, Americans seems painfully unaware how effective the public's will can be, when you act together. But I think that's to be expected, the US is still relatively new and young, compared to other countries, so lessons others have learned still need to be learned by the Americans themselves. I guess this is what we're witnessing right now. I'd urge you to look up changes brought by protesting and riots, but I think we both know you're not interested in learning, since you already stated twice you think it's pointless.
    - CalRobert 2y ago
      Your condescending and dismissive tone notwithstanding, I am curious to hear more about peaceful protests working when they weren't backed with an implicit threat of removing politicians from power. Ideally, of course, you have a functioning democracy, but I don't really think that describes much of the US at this point (the people who'd protest are mostly in blue states anyway where their votes, even if correctly tabulated, count less). Other examples might be Ghandi, who promoted nonviolence but really only got India's freedom when the British empire was in terminal decline, or the civil rights movement, which happened when the US was a much healthier democracy and swaying public opinion was enough to remove people through elections. You might cite the velvet revolution too, but that also was targeting an empire in decline. I argue that elections in the US _will not matter_ (Trump's cryptic comments about how Elon knows all about these voting machines and they won Pennsylvania thanks to him are telling....) and in that context protest doesn't do anything because the people in power have nothing to fear if they ignore the protestors.
Spooky23 2y ago
It does. Hopefully people start taking to the streets when the economic calamity (temporary adjustments in Musk-speak) hits. People slowly figure it out. On HN 2-3 years ago, any critique of Elon would bring out the brigades of simps babbling about autistic genius. That’s mostly gone now.
- CalRobert 2y ago
  OK, people walk in the streets and wave signs, then go home. What happens next?
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    A general strike. Boycotts, etc. Protests get the word out and create comrades.
    - CalRobert 2y ago
      This is true - the ability to meet new people and coordinate is a big plus.
  - Spooky23 2y ago
    How long will they have a home? Starting a trade war has consequences. That mortgage of yours is pegged to 10 year treasury rates. Bend the demand curve for foreign investors seeking safety in US government debt and stuff happens, like real estate bubbles deflating. What happens when foreign investors start dumping loans for vacant NYC buildings on the market because of their governments restrictions? Look at the the classic Bogglehead investment - VTI. 30% of that portfolio is 10 companies, half of which are extremely vulnerable to foreign action. What happens to Apple stock when there’s a 30% tariff on iPhones? You have reckless idiots turning knobs and people are going to get hurt. Then they get angry. LARPing right wing morons love to talk revolutions on their podcasts, they may get their wish.

9283409232 2y ago

The answer is a general strike. This will never happen in the US though.

CalRobert 2y ago
Hard to strike when your boss can make you and your kid homeless. Housing precarity is a useful tool of control.
- 9283409232 2y ago
  According to this[0], they want around 4% of Americans to agree to a general strike. The problem is the people who are most capable of surviving a general strike are not the same group that has the most impact in a general strike. [0] https://generalstrikeus.com/ https://generalstrikeus.com/
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  Wow. My grandfather is turning over in his grave. He suffered not only starvation and homelessness while striking against the coral companies of Pennsylvania, he was also beaten. If they have instilled this much cowardliness in you they have won. Imagine you’re kid looking at what you wrote twenty years from now and think of how he/she would think of you. Courageous or coward?
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    I don't know. I am a coward I guess, I emigrated. I think my kids will be glad they didn't grow up in the US. Good for your grandfather though.
    - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
      [flagged]
    - 9283409232 2y ago
      You are but so is most of America. And there will be no safe place to emigrate when there are wars everywhere.
      - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
        People don’t understand how remarkably easy it is to be homeless. Believe me because I was homeless for four years. The fear they have instilled in them is what’s keeping them cowards.
  - FollowingTheDao 2y ago
    For reference https://coalpail.com/coal-forum/viewtopic.php?t=1422 https://coalpail.com/coal-forum/viewtopic.php?t=1422

diggan 2y ago

> Protest doesn't do anything. Most rights that workers have today have been earned through protesting (and sometimes the bloody consequence of protesting while the state is resisting wanted changes). Protests only "doesn't do anything" when you don't do it enough or give up. Maybe I'm too European to understand, but the "pacifist" approach of the US working class seems to not be working out great.

CalRobert 2y ago
Protest works when it’s backed by a threat. “Do what we want or we will remove you from power”. What we have now is “do what we want or we’ll be sad”. The pitchforks aren’t just for show!! And I’ve lived in Europe for over a decade now and frankly much of Europe is painfully naive about how much people in power care about protestors waving clever signs.
- diggan 2y ago
  > And I’ve lived in Europe for over a decade now and frankly much of Europe is painfully naive about how much people in power care about protestors waving clever signs. I guess the same goes the other way, Americans seems painfully unaware how effective the public's will can be, when you act together. But I think that's to be expected, the US is still relatively new and young, compared to other countries, so lessons others have learned still need to be learned by the Americans themselves. I guess this is what we're witnessing right now. I'd urge you to look up changes brought by protesting and riots, but I think we both know you're not interested in learning, since you already stated twice you think it's pointless.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    Your condescending and dismissive tone notwithstanding, I am curious to hear more about peaceful protests working when they weren't backed with an implicit threat of removing politicians from power. Ideally, of course, you have a functioning democracy, but I don't really think that describes much of the US at this point (the people who'd protest are mostly in blue states anyway where their votes, even if correctly tabulated, count less). Other examples might be Ghandi, who promoted nonviolence but really only got India's freedom when the British empire was in terminal decline, or the civil rights movement, which happened when the US was a much healthier democracy and swaying public opinion was enough to remove people through elections. You might cite the velvet revolution too, but that also was targeting an empire in decline. I argue that elections in the US _will not matter_ (Trump's cryptic comments about how Elon knows all about these voting machines and they won Pennsylvania thanks to him are telling....) and in that context protest doesn't do anything because the people in power have nothing to fear if they ignore the protestors.

Spooky23 2y ago

It does. Hopefully people start taking to the streets when the economic calamity (temporary adjustments in Musk-speak) hits. People slowly figure it out. On HN 2-3 years ago, any critique of Elon would bring out the brigades of simps babbling about autistic genius. That’s mostly gone now.

CalRobert 2y ago
OK, people walk in the streets and wave signs, then go home. What happens next?
- FollowingTheDao 2y ago
  A general strike. Boycotts, etc. Protests get the word out and create comrades.
  - CalRobert 2y ago
    This is true - the ability to meet new people and coordinate is a big plus.
- Spooky23 2y ago
  How long will they have a home? Starting a trade war has consequences. That mortgage of yours is pegged to 10 year treasury rates. Bend the demand curve for foreign investors seeking safety in US government debt and stuff happens, like real estate bubbles deflating. What happens when foreign investors start dumping loans for vacant NYC buildings on the market because of their governments restrictions? Look at the the classic Bogglehead investment - VTI. 30% of that portfolio is 10 companies, half of which are extremely vulnerable to foreign action. What happens to Apple stock when there’s a 30% tariff on iPhones? You have reckless idiots turning knobs and people are going to get hurt. Then they get angry. LARPing right wing morons love to talk revolutions on their podcasts, they may get their wish.