7 ms·

What we get wrong about athleticism

44 points by Hooke 2y ago

domoregood 2y ago
https://archive.is/jpvHk https://archive.is/jpvHk
cowmoo728 2y ago
it's also true for people in cgs (centimeters, grams, seconds) sports like running, cycling, and lifting. if you look at the best in the world (pogacar, ingebrigtsen, blummenfelt) they don't look like fitness models. they look surprisingly normal. carrying "extra" body fat is helpful for training recovery, hormone levels, mood, and sleep. if the sport requires getting lean to hit a weight target for a specific event, athletes can do that, but they shouldn't stay ultra lean during the majority of their training.
- nradov 2y ago
  For Grand Tour cycling stage races, the GC contenders typically start the race carrying a few extra kg (although still very thin). This helps a bit to avoid getting sick or fatigued during the early stages and they know they'll gradually lose the extra weight as the race progresses.
quacked 2y ago
"Dad bod" is a very silly term. Any "dad bod" talked about by the popular media is almost always accompanied by height and extensive musculature. Mahomes is in the low end of "athleticism" in the NFL, but is 99th percentile on all metrics in the general male population. In other words: "if you are extremely tall and/or extremely strong, you don't need be shredded to still be athletic". Who would have thought?
- tiahura 2y ago
  Mahomes and the Chiefs have been pretty open that they see a layer of fat on him as injury prevention padding.
- jjtheblunt 2y ago
  How did you find Mahomes being in the 99th percentile evaluation? Are such things online somewhere?
  - quacked 2y ago
    It's just a guess. There are 40,000,000 men worldwide in the top 1% of any metric, and I am fairly certain it's safe to assume that Mahomes can throw, lift, sprint, run long-distance, and stands tall enough to place in that top 40M every time. I suppose some argument could be made that he's probably more in the 90s for everything rather than 99, but he's a full-time professionally trained athlete in the most dominant NFL team currently active, so I don't think calling 99% absent any formal data is too crazy.
  - nradov 2y ago
    Watch any Chiefs game, then compare against 100 men that you know. How many of them have more strength, speed, and agility?
  - jghn 2y ago
    If you asked me to bet over/under on 99th percentile for nearly all elite, world class level athletes of "normal" sports (i.e. not cornhole championships or something) I'd always take the over.
- edanm 2y ago
  > In other words: "if you are extremely tall and/or extremely strong, you don't need be shredded to still be athletic". Who would have thought? It's more than that. Being shredded is actively anti-athletic. This isn't exactly a secret - pretty much anyone casually into bodybuilding or strength training knows that you lower body fat to look stronger, but raise body fat to actually be stronger, at least to some extent.
ErikAugust 2y ago
Conversely: “Just because you look the part, doesn’t mean you can play, ask Manute Bol.” - Sage Francis I'm not sure Manute is actually a great example but it's still a good line. When I was playing sports back 25 years ago, I heard the expression "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" more than once.
- NickC25 2y ago
  Yeah seriously - Manute is still the leading career blocks-per-game record holder. Wasn't a great offensive player, but man, he was so goddamn tall and was impossible to shoot over. His son is a pretty decent player, too. Bol was also a fantastic human being. Incredibly active politically and donated much of his money towards his poverty-stricken home country of Sudan. He was not perfect, but his charitable acts affected millions, and that should be commended.
0_____0 2y ago
I wonder how this relates to Hollywood, namely the well-known shift towards men having bodybuilder level physiques, even in roles where it doesn't really fit the character. If you're in sport, you know that highly performant bodies don't look like that almost ever. They're too specialized to have the physique that prioritizes aesthetics. Road cyclists with their lanky frames, powerlifters have fat over their absurdly strong cores. High level marathoners look like they might blow over in a stiff wind. The most interesting thing about the article to me was the mention of kinesthetic skill. This is a huge differentiating factor IME in mountain biking. Some people do not have the meta visualization to understand why what they did worked or didn't, why they cleared that rock, why their weight transfer caused the front to wash out. The feedback loop doesn't exist, and they can't progress.
- m348e912 2y ago
  > I wonder how this relates to Hollywood, namely the well-known shift towards men having bodybuilder level physiques, even in roles where it doesn't really fit the character. I agree. When I read "The Martian", I wasn't picturing Mark Watney as Jason Bourne.
  - yencabulator 2y ago
    Dunno this might even be realistic, astronauts have to be "in shape" not as in strong or muscular but baseline healthy: https://www.justjared.com/photo-gallery/4473115/matt-damon-shows-off-his-fit-physique-day-at-the-beach-04/fullsize/ https://www.justjared.com/photo-gallery/4473115/matt-damon-s...
- phillipcarter 2y ago
  Moreover, it's not just bodybuilder physiques, but specifically the kind that is created via heavy use of anabolic steroids. Their bodies are literally unattainable without drugs.
- nine_k 2y ago
  Peacock's impressive tail does not make it a much better flyer, or fighter, or whatever. The huge feathers only demonstrate that the bird can still function adequately even with this useless and expensive ornamentation. The same way, a "highly athletic" / bodybuilder body demonstrates that a man can spend resources on building all these impressive-looking muscles and can strictly ration carbs. (I don't even try to mention what women have to do to look "like a model".) So it's the same demonstrative behavior, only the results are harder to buy directly than a supercar or a yacht. It's about as practical: not completely useless, but the point is not in the utility but in the hard-to-achieve aesthetics. Much like a real able flyer looks much less impressive than a peacock (look at a goose or a crow), a real high-achieving athlete looks much less impressive than an athlete for show. But looks sometimes play a critical role, e.g. for an actor, or during dating, so it's not irrational behavior.
tiahura 2y ago
Interesting article. There was a neat play in the last superbowl where Mahomes made a pass after being twisted 360 by the defender. It was almost a mirror image of a video of Mahomes doing an exercise utilizing the same movement with his trainer Stroupe.
6stringmerc 2y ago
As a disabled individual with hemophilia, genetics have been a mixed bag. Due to my well-noted fondness for PEDs - one of my last posts years ago was about how cocaine and cypionate saved my life from an undiagnosed neurocysticercosis infection - I made understanding "functional strength" a lifetime mission. I actually have a baseball card for Patrick Mahomes...Senior. You know, a MLB pitcher...wonder where the kid got the arm? Anyway, I'm currently a resident at a sober living facility after spending time in jail on a ridiculous Terroristic Threat charge and I'm really grateful to have done my time in solitary confinement. Wall push ups and basic stretches to make the best of a low-fiber, high sodium, soy protein diet among the worst in Texas jails. Athleticism is relative to lifestyle. A lot of people are born with everything they need and then they throw it away with bad diet or, as I learned in jail, meth and hey-ron. In the United States, we get almost everything wrong about the science of the body. It's a for-profit platform here. A lot of the best practices are inexpensive - cypionate, when done right, simply means proper physical exertion and protein intake and then it works magic (went from 300 to 600) but only if you give it a reasonable starting point.
fldskfjdslkfj 2y ago
It's basically just min/maxing of attributes to fit the specific role. A throwing QB probably doesn't need to be the fastest man alive but a few pounds of extra fat will help protect against injuries. Now does that actually make patrick mahomes more athletic than some random person that can run faster and lift more? I would say no, but he's definitely a better QB.
yt-sdb 2y ago
I appreciate the point being made---that we're too reductive in how we view a healthy human body---but calling Patrick Mahomes "one of the greatest athletes on planet earth" is laughable. He's more healthy than many adults, but he's no means an outlier amongst _athletes_. Compare that claim to this header [1] by Cristiano Ronaldo. He jumped 2.6 meters, at pace, perfectly timed, to score a goal, in his mid-30s. And more generally, I would take almost no health advice from American footballers, many (most?) of whom will go into old age with ailments and injuries due how they treated their bodies. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMZ1O6uFdAE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMZ1O6uFdAE
- lukas099 2y ago
  He’s the most successful player in the most competitive position in the most competitive league in one of the most competitive sports on Earth. American football requires a different skill tree than world football. So of course if you only judge by the standards of world football he is not great. But why would you do that? And athleticism as different from health. In fact, beyond a threshold I believe it is detrimental to it.
  - exceptione 2y ago
    ? You can assume that parent knows who Cristiano Ronaldo is.
    - lukas099 2y ago
      I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but I was talking about Mahomes.
      - exceptione 2y ago
        I see you edited your post, it is now clearer what you meant. I think you have a very local perspective, but you have every right to enjoy that. I have nothing to win in a handball versus football debate, besides calling spades spades. :)
red_trumpet 2y ago
> Mahomes isn’t the only one. Superstar athletes in all kinds of physically demanding sports are combining unconventional body types with otherworldly athleticism: Luka Dončić’s pudgy midsection. Josh Allen’s round barrel chest. Nikola Jokić’s lack of muscle definition. Didn't they actually mean "combining conventional body types with otherworldly athleticism"? I mean, I'm pretty sure what the examples given are way more present in society than what is often expected...
- danso 2y ago
  “Unconventional” compared to the average athlete
csa 2y ago
https://archive.ph/MMaH2 https://archive.ph/MMaH2
ban-evader 2y ago
I competed in bodybuilding throughout my early twenties, but never felt athletic. Nowadays I do calisthenics and cardio (rowing, running, cycling) and frankly look a lot more athletic as well. I think crossfit and decathlon pros are the peak of athleticism.
- StevigeHoning 2y ago
  Serious question; what's a decathlon pro?
  - ban-evader 2y ago
    Someone who competes in decathlon for a living, I suppose.
  - hgomersall 2y ago
    Someone who does decathlon professionally? They certainly look closer to the ideal aesthetic than most track and field athletes.
  - hackyhacky 2y ago
    It's like a regular Decathlon but with a bigger screen.
- infamousclyde 2y ago
  My wife is an Olympian in a track event and we have also discussed this at length. CrossFit’s trademark of “the fittest on earth” for the champion of their international competition (… the name escapes me…) always elicits an eye rolls from her. If you asked her, she would say Decathletes are the crème de la crème.
andyferris 2y ago
Is this paywalled?
- derr1 2y ago
  Yes
ProjectArcturis 2y ago
Remember Fedor Emilianenko? He was probably the best MMA fighter in the world around 2010, and he looked like this: https://images.app.goo.gl/JZoqXvSbcnCSahkKA https://images.app.goo.gl/JZoqXvSbcnCSahkKA
- ErikAugust 2y ago
  Look at Daniel Cormier too. Incredible athlete.
- carabiner 2y ago
  Elite rock climbers look like this: https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/06/07/ap_18157667162690_custom-978036ede7f462e37f5e2309a0e9886cd5229c6a.jpg?s=1600&c=85&f=webp https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/06/07/ap_1815766716269...
  - ProjectArcturis 2y ago
    Huh! I thought they'd be skinnier.
    - matsemann 2y ago
      There are videos of Magnus Midtbø (WC climber) training with body builders and powerlifters. He's as strong as them in some exercises (like lats/pulls) while weighing a third. Incredible how adapted some bodies can be. Edit: for instance 4:45 in this video https://youtu.be/ljxrqutpUTo https://youtu.be/ljxrqutpUTo
- onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
  Remember Nikola Jokic? The current best basketball player in the world who looks like this: https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/645d938345a23ca29a9800a8/DENVER-NUGGETS-VS-PHOENIX-SUNS--NBA-PLAYOFFS-Nikola-Jokic/960x0.jpg?format=jpg&width=1440 https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/645d93...
gpjanik 2y ago
Oh yeah, there are 4 slightly chubby guys in "elite" sports out of 10 000, therefore we got athleticism wrong. Also, sorry to say it so directly, but none of these guys would have a remote possibility to (athletically speaking - not talking ability) play in third tier soccer in Italy or Spain, or any actually physically difficult sport (e.g. climbing). It's a rule in these sports that people look at minimum super fit, at maximum godlike, and the few exceptions that exist show extremely visible downsides (and it's clear they'd be better off being athletic). For context, a picture of a soccer player considered unfit (constantly rated at something around ~70/100 physically in various rankings/video games/etc) https://64.media.tumblr.com/9a64e77011b24cf2aff656356587de97/tumblr_ozmyhavclp1rjev45o1_1280.jpg https://64.media.tumblr.com/9a64e77011b24cf2aff656356587de97...
- lukas099 2y ago
  I cannot possibly comprehend how someone could think that NFL football and NBA basketball are ‘not physically difficult’ sports.
  - gpjanik 2y ago
    Ugh, NFL players need to run on average about half of what a third tier soccer players do. At the extreme, a goalkeeper runs about the same as most running NFL player. For sprinting, the peak speed is similar, but soccer players run 2-3km of sprints during the game (1-1.5km for NFL). I'm not bringing NBA into this because it's just not a running sport altogether. For explosiveness, top speeds of NFL and top 5 leagues in Europe are comparable, but more consistent for soccer players. They of course have to run with a ball next to their legs, rather than in hand, which makes it technically harder. For jumping, tall soccer players are closer to NBA players than to NFL (Tomori, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, etc, jump around 80cm). In terms of agility, NFL and top 5 leagues is similar, about 3 seconds to 30km/h, but of course the best performing players in soccer are better. So, with some similar parameters, soccer players do what NFL players do, but 3 times as long. That's the difference between "I can do this with a bit of a belly" and "I need to look like a god to even survive this game without getting a heart attack". Edit: my point above wasn't that it's not physically difficult altogether, it was that these are not _elite_ sports in terms of physical requirement. Swimming, climbing, sprinting, soccer (mainly by the virtue of how professionalized it is), bicycle racing, that's physically super difficult. Basketball is super technical and relatively chill in physical requirements compared to these sports, and NFL is generally challenging but not nearly as much as the "top" sports, unless you specifically cherry-pick comparison to favor heavy, fast people. I chose rather versatile metrics that focus on input, e.g. how much you need to train to become fit enough.
recursivedoubts 2y ago
and it is for this reason that I love baseball: my dude bartolo can be playing at a a world class level looking like a rec-league softball guy smuggling a beer out to the mound in his waistband: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfvCKA9RdH4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfvCKA9RdH4
- lukas099 2y ago
  That man is a treasure
llm_nerd 2y ago
The average QB excels by using their brain, Mahomes being a prime example. He has the basic physical skills, but it's his decision making and fine motor skills that led to his excellence. This is the case of most QBs. The position does not demand physical excellence, and if he was totally ripped it would offer little advantage while coming with downsides. Linebackers, in contrast, usually look like bodybuilders. They are the cliche athlete, having to use speed and strength to excel. Linesmen on both sides of the ball are usually heavy guys -- "fat" -- yet with massive strength. DBs are again low body fat and "ripped" by any common measure. The cliche "athlete". So athletes cover the gamut, and it depends on what you do. A dart player is an athlete but clearly a dart player doesn't have the same physical requirements as a gymnast. As an aside, it is amazing how low people's expectations of the human form have dropped. If someone posts a picture of a man with low body fat and any inkling of a form, many comments will be about steroids. Steroids are a shortcut, but even a small amount of effort and almost anyone can be top 1%. The bar is incredibly low, and it's bizarre when someone has a bit of biceps or isn't overweight and people need to comfort themselves by telling everyone that they're augmenting.
zeroCalories 2y ago
I hate articles like this because they state obvious things like "there isn't one optimal physique", then fat / lazy people take that as an oppritunity to denigrate their betters.
austin-cheney 2y ago
The article is a pointless counter-critique of online stupidity. Athleticism can be easily calculated with numbers: * Lowness of resting pulse rate * VO2max level * Speed to run 100m, 800m, 1600m, marathon, 100 miles, 1000 miles * same with biking, swimming, and mountain climbing * squat weight limit, deadlift weight limit * total consecutive reps of sit-ups, 20lbs bicep curl, 40lbs What’s interesting is the distance between male and female athletic performance, across the board, grows inversely to the duration of continuous effort. For a while the fastest 100 miler in the world, by a significant margin, was female around age 40.
- nradov 2y ago
  That seems like a pretty limited way to measure athleticism. No throwing? No jumping? No pull ups? And at the elite levels of running, men have a pretty consistent speed advantage over women at all distances.
  - austin-cheney 2y ago
    Stop guessing at performance. This is the very ignorance the article is railing against. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon I am seeing a lot of women world record holders. How can that be if males are consistently faster than female runners at all distances?
    - infamousclyde 2y ago
      I mean… Men are faster than women in the general case. It’s not really up for debate— it’s grounded in biological differences. Testosterone is essentially a steroid that women are not working with. There is a clear divide in the competition at all levels of the sport to facilitate this and promote a fair level of competition. The ultra marathoning statistics are fine, but they also have significantly smaller viewership and uptake in the general population. Consequently, it’s more of the Wild West, and as a result, I don’t think it accurately reflects the global running scene.

44 points by Hooke 2y ago

https://archive.is/jpvHk https://archive.is/jpvHk

it's also true for people in cgs (centimeters, grams, seconds) sports like running, cycling, and lifting. if you look at the best in the world (pogacar, ingebrigtsen, blummenfelt) they don't look like fitness models. they look surprisingly normal. carrying "extra" body fat is helpful for training recovery, hormone levels, mood, and sleep. if the sport requires getting lean to hit a weight target for a specific event, athletes can do that, but they shouldn't stay ultra lean during the majority of their training.

nradov 2y ago
For Grand Tour cycling stage races, the GC contenders typically start the race carrying a few extra kg (although still very thin). This helps a bit to avoid getting sick or fatigued during the early stages and they know they'll gradually lose the extra weight as the race progresses.

quacked 2y ago

"Dad bod" is a very silly term. Any "dad bod" talked about by the popular media is almost always accompanied by height and extensive musculature. Mahomes is in the low end of "athleticism" in the NFL, but is 99th percentile on all metrics in the general male population. In other words: "if you are extremely tall and/or extremely strong, you don't need be shredded to still be athletic". Who would have thought?

tiahura 2y ago
Mahomes and the Chiefs have been pretty open that they see a layer of fat on him as injury prevention padding.
jjtheblunt 2y ago
How did you find Mahomes being in the 99th percentile evaluation? Are such things online somewhere?
- quacked 2y ago
  It's just a guess. There are 40,000,000 men worldwide in the top 1% of any metric, and I am fairly certain it's safe to assume that Mahomes can throw, lift, sprint, run long-distance, and stands tall enough to place in that top 40M every time. I suppose some argument could be made that he's probably more in the 90s for everything rather than 99, but he's a full-time professionally trained athlete in the most dominant NFL team currently active, so I don't think calling 99% absent any formal data is too crazy.
- nradov 2y ago
  Watch any Chiefs game, then compare against 100 men that you know. How many of them have more strength, speed, and agility?
- jghn 2y ago
  If you asked me to bet over/under on 99th percentile for nearly all elite, world class level athletes of "normal" sports (i.e. not cornhole championships or something) I'd always take the over.
edanm 2y ago
> In other words: "if you are extremely tall and/or extremely strong, you don't need be shredded to still be athletic". Who would have thought? It's more than that. Being shredded is actively anti-athletic. This isn't exactly a secret - pretty much anyone casually into bodybuilding or strength training knows that you lower body fat to look stronger, but raise body fat to actually be stronger, at least to some extent.

ErikAugust 2y ago

Conversely: “Just because you look the part, doesn’t mean you can play, ask Manute Bol.” - Sage Francis I'm not sure Manute is actually a great example but it's still a good line. When I was playing sports back 25 years ago, I heard the expression "looks like Tarzan, plays like Jane" more than once.

NickC25 2y ago
Yeah seriously - Manute is still the leading career blocks-per-game record holder. Wasn't a great offensive player, but man, he was so goddamn tall and was impossible to shoot over. His son is a pretty decent player, too. Bol was also a fantastic human being. Incredibly active politically and donated much of his money towards his poverty-stricken home country of Sudan. He was not perfect, but his charitable acts affected millions, and that should be commended.

0_____0 2y ago

I wonder how this relates to Hollywood, namely the well-known shift towards men having bodybuilder level physiques, even in roles where it doesn't really fit the character. If you're in sport, you know that highly performant bodies don't look like that almost ever. They're too specialized to have the physique that prioritizes aesthetics. Road cyclists with their lanky frames, powerlifters have fat over their absurdly strong cores. High level marathoners look like they might blow over in a stiff wind. The most interesting thing about the article to me was the mention of kinesthetic skill. This is a huge differentiating factor IME in mountain biking. Some people do not have the meta visualization to understand why what they did worked or didn't, why they cleared that rock, why their weight transfer caused the front to wash out. The feedback loop doesn't exist, and they can't progress.

m348e912 2y ago
> I wonder how this relates to Hollywood, namely the well-known shift towards men having bodybuilder level physiques, even in roles where it doesn't really fit the character. I agree. When I read "The Martian", I wasn't picturing Mark Watney as Jason Bourne.
- yencabulator 2y ago
  Dunno this might even be realistic, astronauts have to be "in shape" not as in strong or muscular but baseline healthy: https://www.justjared.com/photo-gallery/4473115/matt-damon-shows-off-his-fit-physique-day-at-the-beach-04/fullsize/ https://www.justjared.com/photo-gallery/4473115/matt-damon-s...
phillipcarter 2y ago
Moreover, it's not just bodybuilder physiques, but specifically the kind that is created via heavy use of anabolic steroids. Their bodies are literally unattainable without drugs.
nine_k 2y ago
Peacock's impressive tail does not make it a much better flyer, or fighter, or whatever. The huge feathers only demonstrate that the bird can still function adequately even with this useless and expensive ornamentation. The same way, a "highly athletic" / bodybuilder body demonstrates that a man can spend resources on building all these impressive-looking muscles and can strictly ration carbs. (I don't even try to mention what women have to do to look "like a model".) So it's the same demonstrative behavior, only the results are harder to buy directly than a supercar or a yacht. It's about as practical: not completely useless, but the point is not in the utility but in the hard-to-achieve aesthetics. Much like a real able flyer looks much less impressive than a peacock (look at a goose or a crow), a real high-achieving athlete looks much less impressive than an athlete for show. But looks sometimes play a critical role, e.g. for an actor, or during dating, so it's not irrational behavior.

tiahura 2y ago

Interesting article. There was a neat play in the last superbowl where Mahomes made a pass after being twisted 360 by the defender. It was almost a mirror image of a video of Mahomes doing an exercise utilizing the same movement with his trainer Stroupe.

6stringmerc 2y ago

As a disabled individual with hemophilia, genetics have been a mixed bag. Due to my well-noted fondness for PEDs - one of my last posts years ago was about how cocaine and cypionate saved my life from an undiagnosed neurocysticercosis infection - I made understanding "functional strength" a lifetime mission. I actually have a baseball card for Patrick Mahomes...Senior. You know, a MLB pitcher...wonder where the kid got the arm? Anyway, I'm currently a resident at a sober living facility after spending time in jail on a ridiculous Terroristic Threat charge and I'm really grateful to have done my time in solitary confinement. Wall push ups and basic stretches to make the best of a low-fiber, high sodium, soy protein diet among the worst in Texas jails. Athleticism is relative to lifestyle. A lot of people are born with everything they need and then they throw it away with bad diet or, as I learned in jail, meth and hey-ron. In the United States, we get almost everything wrong about the science of the body. It's a for-profit platform here. A lot of the best practices are inexpensive - cypionate, when done right, simply means proper physical exertion and protein intake and then it works magic (went from 300 to 600) but only if you give it a reasonable starting point.

fldskfjdslkfj 2y ago

It's basically just min/maxing of attributes to fit the specific role. A throwing QB probably doesn't need to be the fastest man alive but a few pounds of extra fat will help protect against injuries. Now does that actually make patrick mahomes more athletic than some random person that can run faster and lift more? I would say no, but he's definitely a better QB.

yt-sdb 2y ago

I appreciate the point being made---that we're too reductive in how we view a healthy human body---but calling Patrick Mahomes "one of the greatest athletes on planet earth" is laughable. He's more healthy than many adults, but he's no means an outlier amongst _athletes_. Compare that claim to this header [1] by Cristiano Ronaldo. He jumped 2.6 meters, at pace, perfectly timed, to score a goal, in his mid-30s. And more generally, I would take almost no health advice from American footballers, many (most?) of whom will go into old age with ailments and injuries due how they treated their bodies. [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMZ1O6uFdAE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMZ1O6uFdAE

lukas099 2y ago
He’s the most successful player in the most competitive position in the most competitive league in one of the most competitive sports on Earth. American football requires a different skill tree than world football. So of course if you only judge by the standards of world football he is not great. But why would you do that? And athleticism as different from health. In fact, beyond a threshold I believe it is detrimental to it.
- exceptione 2y ago
  ? You can assume that parent knows who Cristiano Ronaldo is.
  - lukas099 2y ago
    I’m not sure what you’re trying to say, but I was talking about Mahomes.
    - exceptione 2y ago
      I see you edited your post, it is now clearer what you meant. I think you have a very local perspective, but you have every right to enjoy that. I have nothing to win in a handball versus football debate, besides calling spades spades. :)

red_trumpet 2y ago

> Mahomes isn’t the only one. Superstar athletes in all kinds of physically demanding sports are combining unconventional body types with otherworldly athleticism: Luka Dončić’s pudgy midsection. Josh Allen’s round barrel chest. Nikola Jokić’s lack of muscle definition. Didn't they actually mean "combining conventional body types with otherworldly athleticism"? I mean, I'm pretty sure what the examples given are way more present in society than what is often expected...

danso 2y ago
“Unconventional” compared to the average athlete

csa 2y ago

https://archive.ph/MMaH2 https://archive.ph/MMaH2

ban-evader 2y ago

I competed in bodybuilding throughout my early twenties, but never felt athletic. Nowadays I do calisthenics and cardio (rowing, running, cycling) and frankly look a lot more athletic as well. I think crossfit and decathlon pros are the peak of athleticism.

StevigeHoning 2y ago
Serious question; what's a decathlon pro?
- ban-evader 2y ago
  Someone who competes in decathlon for a living, I suppose.
- hgomersall 2y ago
  Someone who does decathlon professionally? They certainly look closer to the ideal aesthetic than most track and field athletes.
- hackyhacky 2y ago
  It's like a regular Decathlon but with a bigger screen.
infamousclyde 2y ago
My wife is an Olympian in a track event and we have also discussed this at length. CrossFit’s trademark of “the fittest on earth” for the champion of their international competition (… the name escapes me…) always elicits an eye rolls from her. If you asked her, she would say Decathletes are the crème de la crème.

andyferris 2y ago

Is this paywalled?

derr1 2y ago
Yes

ProjectArcturis 2y ago

Remember Fedor Emilianenko? He was probably the best MMA fighter in the world around 2010, and he looked like this: https://images.app.goo.gl/JZoqXvSbcnCSahkKA https://images.app.goo.gl/JZoqXvSbcnCSahkKA

ErikAugust 2y ago
Look at Daniel Cormier too. Incredible athlete.
carabiner 2y ago
Elite rock climbers look like this: https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/06/07/ap_18157667162690_custom-978036ede7f462e37f5e2309a0e9886cd5229c6a.jpg?s=1600&c=85&f=webp https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2018/06/07/ap_1815766716269...
- ProjectArcturis 2y ago
  Huh! I thought they'd be skinnier.
  - matsemann 2y ago
    There are videos of Magnus Midtbø (WC climber) training with body builders and powerlifters. He's as strong as them in some exercises (like lats/pulls) while weighing a third. Incredible how adapted some bodies can be. Edit: for instance 4:45 in this video https://youtu.be/ljxrqutpUTo https://youtu.be/ljxrqutpUTo
onlyrealcuzzo 2y ago
Remember Nikola Jokic? The current best basketball player in the world who looks like this: https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/645d938345a23ca29a9800a8/DENVER-NUGGETS-VS-PHOENIX-SUNS--NBA-PLAYOFFS-Nikola-Jokic/960x0.jpg?format=jpg&width=1440 https://imageio.forbes.com/specials-images/imageserve/645d93...

gpjanik 2y ago

Oh yeah, there are 4 slightly chubby guys in "elite" sports out of 10 000, therefore we got athleticism wrong. Also, sorry to say it so directly, but none of these guys would have a remote possibility to (athletically speaking - not talking ability) play in third tier soccer in Italy or Spain, or any actually physically difficult sport (e.g. climbing). It's a rule in these sports that people look at minimum super fit, at maximum godlike, and the few exceptions that exist show extremely visible downsides (and it's clear they'd be better off being athletic). For context, a picture of a soccer player considered unfit (constantly rated at something around ~70/100 physically in various rankings/video games/etc) https://64.media.tumblr.com/9a64e77011b24cf2aff656356587de97/tumblr_ozmyhavclp1rjev45o1_1280.jpg https://64.media.tumblr.com/9a64e77011b24cf2aff656356587de97...

lukas099 2y ago
I cannot possibly comprehend how someone could think that NFL football and NBA basketball are ‘not physically difficult’ sports.
- gpjanik 2y ago
  Ugh, NFL players need to run on average about half of what a third tier soccer players do. At the extreme, a goalkeeper runs about the same as most running NFL player. For sprinting, the peak speed is similar, but soccer players run 2-3km of sprints during the game (1-1.5km for NFL). I'm not bringing NBA into this because it's just not a running sport altogether. For explosiveness, top speeds of NFL and top 5 leagues in Europe are comparable, but more consistent for soccer players. They of course have to run with a ball next to their legs, rather than in hand, which makes it technically harder. For jumping, tall soccer players are closer to NBA players than to NFL (Tomori, Ronaldo, Lewandowski, etc, jump around 80cm). In terms of agility, NFL and top 5 leagues is similar, about 3 seconds to 30km/h, but of course the best performing players in soccer are better. So, with some similar parameters, soccer players do what NFL players do, but 3 times as long. That's the difference between "I can do this with a bit of a belly" and "I need to look like a god to even survive this game without getting a heart attack". Edit: my point above wasn't that it's not physically difficult altogether, it was that these are not _elite_ sports in terms of physical requirement. Swimming, climbing, sprinting, soccer (mainly by the virtue of how professionalized it is), bicycle racing, that's physically super difficult. Basketball is super technical and relatively chill in physical requirements compared to these sports, and NFL is generally challenging but not nearly as much as the "top" sports, unless you specifically cherry-pick comparison to favor heavy, fast people. I chose rather versatile metrics that focus on input, e.g. how much you need to train to become fit enough.

recursivedoubts 2y ago

and it is for this reason that I love baseball: my dude bartolo can be playing at a a world class level looking like a rec-league softball guy smuggling a beer out to the mound in his waistband: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfvCKA9RdH4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yfvCKA9RdH4

lukas099 2y ago
That man is a treasure

llm_nerd 2y ago

The average QB excels by using their brain, Mahomes being a prime example. He has the basic physical skills, but it's his decision making and fine motor skills that led to his excellence. This is the case of most QBs. The position does not demand physical excellence, and if he was totally ripped it would offer little advantage while coming with downsides. Linebackers, in contrast, usually look like bodybuilders. They are the cliche athlete, having to use speed and strength to excel. Linesmen on both sides of the ball are usually heavy guys -- "fat" -- yet with massive strength. DBs are again low body fat and "ripped" by any common measure. The cliche "athlete". So athletes cover the gamut, and it depends on what you do. A dart player is an athlete but clearly a dart player doesn't have the same physical requirements as a gymnast. As an aside, it is amazing how low people's expectations of the human form have dropped. If someone posts a picture of a man with low body fat and any inkling of a form, many comments will be about steroids. Steroids are a shortcut, but even a small amount of effort and almost anyone can be top 1%. The bar is incredibly low, and it's bizarre when someone has a bit of biceps or isn't overweight and people need to comfort themselves by telling everyone that they're augmenting.

zeroCalories 2y ago

I hate articles like this because they state obvious things like "there isn't one optimal physique", then fat / lazy people take that as an oppritunity to denigrate their betters.

austin-cheney 2y ago

The article is a pointless counter-critique of online stupidity. Athleticism can be easily calculated with numbers: * Lowness of resting pulse rate * VO2max level * Speed to run 100m, 800m, 1600m, marathon, 100 miles, 1000 miles * same with biking, swimming, and mountain climbing * squat weight limit, deadlift weight limit * total consecutive reps of sit-ups, 20lbs bicep curl, 40lbs What’s interesting is the distance between male and female athletic performance, across the board, grows inversely to the duration of continuous effort. For a while the fastest 100 miler in the world, by a significant margin, was female around age 40.

nradov 2y ago
That seems like a pretty limited way to measure athleticism. No throwing? No jumping? No pull ups? And at the elite levels of running, men have a pretty consistent speed advantage over women at all distances.
- austin-cheney 2y ago
  Stop guessing at performance. This is the very ignorance the article is railing against. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarathon I am seeing a lot of women world record holders. How can that be if males are consistently faster than female runners at all distances?
  - infamousclyde 2y ago
    I mean… Men are faster than women in the general case. It’s not really up for debate— it’s grounded in biological differences. Testosterone is essentially a steroid that women are not working with. There is a clear divide in the competition at all levels of the sport to facilitate this and promote a fair level of competition. The ultra marathoning statistics are fine, but they also have significantly smaller viewership and uptake in the general population. Consequently, it’s more of the Wild West, and as a result, I don’t think it accurately reflects the global running scene.