14 ms·

Switching to Linux: Reclaim Your Freedom

71 points by BimJeam 2y ago

BimJeam 2y ago
Break free from commercial vendor lock-ins and start using free systems. What do you think, is it inevitable these days?
allears 2y ago
Unfortunately, there aren't any Linux drivers for the audio hardware I use. The hardware replacement cost to switch to Linux would be prohibitive. I also would have a much narrower choice of audio and DAW apps.
- synack 2y ago
  Could you email the hardware vendor and ask nicely for Linux support? They won’t develop it if customers aren’t asking.
- badosu 2y ago
  I had a great time with bitwig as a daw, no idea about the hardware issue though
1970-01-01 2y ago
Linux in a nutshell: Just awful in a laptop, meh in a desktop, and first-class as a server.
- belter 2y ago
  This comment is unworthy of your user name. The modern experience of Linux is miles ahead of Windows and as good as Mac: https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-4-best-linux-desktops-based-on-gnome-and-what-i-most-like-about-each-one/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-4-best-linux-desktops-base...
  - talldayo 2y ago
    It seems like the perception that MacOS and Windows are miles apart in quality stems from the two ends of the horseshoe theory refusing to admit they're next-door neighbors.
  - 1970-01-01 2y ago
    'the modern experience' is dogshit sliding down a wet stick for laptops. average it all out.
    - d3Xt3r 2y ago
      As a ThinkPad user, I disagree. I've been using Linux (Fedora + Arch) on my Z13 Gen 1 for three years now and it's been a first-class experience. Everything worked out-of-the-box, with literally zero issues. I can't think of a single thing that I'd want to improve, from a laptop user's perspective. For me, this is the definitive Linux laptop experience. I had a similarly good experience with my previous laptop, an HP Elite Dragonfly. Only niggle was that not all bits of firmware was upgradable via fwupd, so I had to ocassionally boot into Windows to do the firmware updates. But other than that, I don't recollect any issues with it either. And I'm sure the laptop experience is equally good on "native" Linux laptops, such as the ones from System76, Slimbook, Tuxedo etc. So to make a blanket statement like "'the modern experience' is dogshit sliding down a wet stick for laptops", is pretty disingenuous and very disrespectful towards all the developers who've worked so hard on making Linux viable.
      - 1970-01-01 2y ago
        It is disingenuous, yet also accurate. HN mostly agrees: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32964519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32964519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42569926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42569926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42122686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42122686
        eth0up 2y ago
        I've never used anything but Linux on the 20 or so laptops I've gone through. Suspend can be an issue, fan control can be suboptimal, but the only thing I find intolerable is the touchpad, so I use a mouse. I've had one or two bad laptops, but most were sufficient. If I had a laptop presently, it would be running Linux.
- syntacticbs 2y ago
  I run Linux on my laptop and desktop and have a MacBook. I wouldn't recommend it for your laptop unless you're an enthusiast. Suspend/sleep is still janky, power saving is poor and dock support is hit and miss depending on the day. And this is after applying a lot of tweaks. For desktop it's fantastic and I would recommend. It's not without some issues but what OSes is actually without any issues. For server, I can't imagine using anything else.
  - d3Xt3r 2y ago
    As a ThinkPad Z13 user, I've had none of the issues you've described. I've been running Linux (Fedora + Arch) on it for three years now and it's been a first-class experience. Everything worked out-of-the-box, with literally zero issues. I can't think of a single thing that I'd want to improve, from a laptop user's perspective. For me, this is the definitive Linux laptop experience. I had a similarly good experience with my previous laptop, an HP Elite Dragonfly. Only niggle was that not all bits of firmware was upgradable via fwupd, so I had to ocassionally boot into Windows to do the firmware updates. But other than that, I don't recollect any issues with it either, suspend/resume/power management all worked as good as Windows. In fact, battery life was better than Windows when I applied powertop's tweaks. And I'm sure the laptop experience is equally good on "native" Linux laptops, such as the ones from System76, Slimbook, Tuxedo etc. So personally, I wouldn't make a blanket statement like "I wouldn't recommend it for your laptop unless you're an enthusiast". To be clear, I'm not claiming that the issues you describe don't exist, but at least for laptops known for having official support for Linux, the experience should be good.
    - tmtvl 2y ago
      I have a Slimbook Elemental 15 (or some such) and it's crap. The keyboard has a backlight you can change the colour of... with an application which is only available on specific distros (it isn't even on the AUR) and even then half the time it doesn't work. Its audio system is also fucked, if you plug in headphones tte thing will play from the headphones at the volume of the speakers. The system doesn't see the headphones, it only has a generic audio output and switching between speakers and headphones happens IN HARDWARE. The battery life ain't great, though I don't know about hibernate 'cause I ain't wasting 32 gigs on swap. Suspend seems to work fine, though I don't know how much power it'd drain over the course of, say, a night.
- Terr_ 2y ago
  Ubuntu works fine on the Dell XPS 15 9500 laptop I use for work. It came preinstalled with Windows, but I shrank the partition so I can dual boot. (Having all data encrypted-at-rest was a requirement which made things a little trickier.) The only weirdness I've encountered is some crashing in some lid-open-or-closed software, probably because I tried to make sure it wouldn't sleep just because I wanted to carry it to a conference room.
- kjellsbells 2y ago
  Presumably because servers have components that are predictable and stable over their production runs, whereas laptops seem to be assembled out of whatever bits the supplier has on hand that week?
  - dehrmann 2y ago
    There are two main issues. Servers are configured differently (config files, puppet) with static configs. This works great for server deployments. On laptops, too much is always changing--new networks, powering on and off, etc. The other issue is yes, drivers, but not only because of supplier pressure. There seem to be more peripheral devices (sound, webcam, bluetooth) from low-end vendors, so the devices are buggier and less likely to get support. Servers care about disk and network. There aren't as many vendors, and the have incentives to have decent Linux support.
- 7mediaws 2y ago
  I always buy Lenovo laptops. Never really had an issue until the latest Lenovo I purchased. The suspend/sleep gets weird sometimes. Other than that, I am pretty satisfied with my dev box.
- Marsymars 2y ago
  Asides from what sibling comments have mentioned, this is in large part true for me because I've yet to experience a Linux desktop environment that I've found to be great from a UI perspective. On a server, that's not applicable.
- Zamiel_Snawley 2y ago
  In my experience, Linux works quite well on laptops that are intended to run it. I’ve only tried the System 76 Lemur Pro and the Framework 13, both of which worked smoothly. The Framework has better build quality, and I can wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone who wants to try a Linux laptop.
  - gbin 2y ago
    Framework has been rock solid—I've had it since the first batch, and it's worked flawlessly across three mainboards, two screens, and two webcams (all upgraded along the way). Arch Linux ran without a hitch. KDE on Wayland is now incredibly polished and, surprisingly, a far better UX for me on a laptop than Apple's.
  - thastings 2y ago
    I can add that Linux is also pretty solid on Asus machines well, despite the company actively advocating for MS on their sites. I have an old G46, some i7-1065 Zenbook Flip, and a newish Zenbook with a 6800U. All of them running Debian 12 with GNOME or KDE, all hardware components supported. That also includes the sensors for tablet mode in the Flip! Also used to have an 8000 series Intel AsusPro something, same good support. It takes around 1 to 2 years for the kernel to catch up on more stable distros, but I can wholeheartedly recommend Asus laptops for Linux use.
- sho_hn 2y ago
  I'm heavily biased and an expert user, but I do also have a Mac from work, and my Linux laptop genuinely is more trouble-free with docking and Bluetooth acrobatics than the Mac (a M1 MBP). Every time the Mac decides today's another day when flipping it shut will randomly also disable the external display, I get a little more frustrated, or when it's dumb about not switching my headphones out of bi-directional headset mode to a HQ audio profile once a call ends. These things are just flawless on my Linux system. Battery life on the M1 Mac is absolutely stellar and probably about double of the Intel-based Linux one, though, which I agree is a valid deciding factor for quite a few users because it can really change how you go about your day.
- dismalaf 2y ago
  Dunno, I've had no issues running Linux on laptops for the last 15 years. Had a ThinkPad, a cheapish Acer and now an MSI. All ran Linux flawlessly. My current MSI laptop even has a touchscreen, stylus and fingerprint reader. Everything works flawlessly. I'd give this laptop to my grandma even. It's great to use. Gives me zero trouble, can't say the same for my wife's Windows laptop.
dehrmann 2y ago
I'm in the middle of sorting out my next laptop (leaning towards an M4 Macbook). I've used a Thinkpad for years, but the the product direction of Windows has been annoying, and while WSL is decent, it's not great. Someone suggested I try Linux, and I did. This was on a 6-year-old X1 Carbon, so it's relatively well-supported. I ran into a few hard blockers. 1) Couldn't pair my Airpods Pro after 15 minutes of googling 2) Would get stuck on the lock screen on resume, sometimes for a minute, sometimes indefinitely 3) VMware kernel modules were a headache 4) Occasional lockups (could have been VMware modules). The soft blockers were 1) Less consistent UI than Windows 2) Poor hidpi support (but it's improved) 3) The UI feels 5% off in a lot of ways, and I'm not sure how to describe it 4) full-disk-encryption is an adventure. I didn't even make it to testing my webcam.
- deleted 2y ago
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- ghthor 2y ago
  Touching on UI. My experience is the opposite. I started by installing Xubuntu so XFCE desktop. I wanted the GUI shell to be fast and low reasources, and choose XFCE. 16 years later and my desktop shell is the same traveling with me through district hopping to Arch and now NixOS. Same UI and no one’s aiming to change it. Disk encryption, straightforward luks w/ pass phrase. Setup was 3 terminal commands and and done. Pretty sure the GUI installers you just enter a passphrase and it’s done. All the knobs are available if the default isn’t good enough, using a key file on an external disk, etc. Poor hdpi is real, it’s bound to change as us old graybeards finally get new monitors
zb3 2y ago
Normal people will probably not read these long essays, but they might complain about their M$ OS getting worse.. and that is a great opportunity to present linux as the solution (because it is), you can then explain how programs they use will continue to work (it's 2025, they will in most cases) and how there's nothing to fear. For me, it actually worked! Of course I did offer some help just in case she got stuck or something, but it went relatively smoothly.
- Dalewyn 2y ago
  >you can then explain how programs they use will continue to work Microsoft Office and games. No, not LibreOffice and Tux Racer. Wine has gotten a lot better compared to years past, but if you need/want Windows software you still need Windows. You also only get one shot at convincing them, since first impressions are everything. A better argument might be recommending MacOS, at least Microsoft Office works just fine there. Also, if you're using esoteric hardware: Forget it.
  - zb3 2y ago
    > Microsoft Office and games. No, not LibreOffice and Tux Racer. Not everyone will be as displeased with LibreOffice since not everyone uses MS Office professionally.. I'd argue further: for MOST people this is acceptable! > Wine has gotten a lot better compared to years past, but if you need/want Windows software you still need Windows. Not the case for PhotoScape for example (which was on the "required" list in this case). Also fortunately more and more programs are cross-platform, and again, for MOST people they're acceptable. > Also, if you're using esoteric hardware: Forget it. What?? It was the opposite, Linux doesn't require TPM, runs fine on older laptops and even runs faster with lighter DE's..
    - freeone3000 2y ago
      ok, but what if you need something off-the-wall, like a scanner?
      - 2y ago
rednafi 2y ago
I loathe macOS but stick with it mostly for the hardware. I use a beefed-up 16-inch M3 Max for work and a baseline 15-inch MacBook Air for writing and OSS work. I love the Air’s hardware and wouldn’t trade it for anything. Before switching to Mac, I was running a maxed-out 16-inch Dell XPS and enjoyed using Ubuntu and Pop!_OS on it. But the hardware just wasn’t there—the trackpad felt cheap, and the keyboard would creak. There were just too many small issues for such an expensive device. Otherwise, macOS is bloated, slow, and has horrible window management. I also prefer GNU tooling over BSD, and having to install everything separately is an extra hassle. Plus, it’s getting more restrictive over the years, which I’m not a fan of.
- al_borland 2y ago
  The other advantage I see to macOS is commercial app support. Like it or not, it can be a fact of life for many. Photoshop users don’t want to use GIMP. While Electron has made Linux on the desktop much more viable in this respect, there is are some key apps that macOS has where Linux is lacking. And of course there is also working between mobile and desktop, which macOS/iOS seem to do best. Part of me longs for the days when this wasn’t a concern, but this is a big thing these days and makes running Linux on my main computer a problem.
  - rufus_foreman 2y ago
    >> Photoshop users don’t want to use GIMP GIMP users don't want to use Photoshop.
  - bobajeff 2y ago
    Linux actually has some commercial apps available. Though I'm not sure how they compare to their Mac and Windows versions. Yes some apps aren't available but that's true of Mac as well, though to a lesser extent.
  - tap-snap-or-nap 2y ago
    A lot of free software have a huge learning curve but the payoff long term is always much more than sticking with commercial software which gets nerfed and eventually subscription model with few feature additions and many subtractions.
codr7 2y ago
Currently stuck in WSL2 on my Thinkpad, newish hardware that could use some more updates before jumping ship.
christophilus 2y ago
I’ll chime in with a different anecdote than all the whiny ones. Fedora + Niri on a Dell XPS is great. Stock Fedora + Gnome is also great. I don’t miss Windows or OSX at all. The games I care to play work fine thanks to Proton. I don’t care about Adobe or MS Office. If you don’t care about those, either, then find a laptop with good Linux support and decent build quality and come on. It’s more than fine.
megous 2y ago
Except that for user freedom I think the best distro for Linux beginers would be somehting simple with good docs like Slackware or LFS, not the super-complex windows wannabe distros like Fedora or Ubuntu. It's much more welcomming, with very little ceremony around building and modifying packages.
- DaSHacka 2y ago
  Missing the "/s"
  - megous 2y ago
    No. Slackware was my first distro after MS-DOS and Windows 95/2000 and the benefit was that it was a really simple thing, conceptually, and quite malleable. So if someone's suggesting a distro that's good for "reclaiming your freedom", then one of the simplest distros out there, made and maintained by a single person and well docummented, but still challenging enough that you end up learning something, should be a legitimate way to go.
    - megous 2y ago
      And LFS is of course explicitly in this space. You basically build your own OS. But Slackware has much smaller initial commitment, so I'd think it would be better to start.
BimJeam 2y ago
Wow thanks people, that is a lot of comments. I really value that and most of your points are valid. It is interesting to see all these new insights from users like you!
waltercool 2y ago
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dismalaf 2y ago
I kind of hate articles like this. I use Linux, I think it's great, I think everyone should use it. I don't think you need user skills to use it. Gnome is super friendly to use (although maybe it needs to make the dock visible by default). KDE isn't bad and is Windows-like. I don't think Linux is more complex than Windows. Folders are laid out in a common sense way. Ever tried uninstalling a Windows program that was installed in a weird way by some proprietary installer? I don't think normal users particularly need to care about OSS either, Linux is more than functional enough nowadays that it's a great choice merely for utility, ideology isn't needed. What's up with everyone thinking they need Photoshop/GIMP? Those are photo editing tools. For design/content creation Krita is the best tool for raster images by far... And NetBeans? Really? Is this article from 2005? IntelliJ Community is open-source. VSCode is kinda, VSCodium more so. Gnome Builder is really good now. So is QtCreator and KDevelop. Plus Vim/Neovim and Emacs, especially nowadays that distros make it easy to get started. Linux nerds still don't quite get normies... Here's my pitch: it's easier and less annoying than Windows. It's free. For normal everyday use, it has everything you need.
- em-bee 2y ago
  some quotes from the article: switching to Linux is not some stroll through a digital park. It’s more like trying to navigate a labyrinth blindfolded while simultaneously herding cats. The potential drawbacks are like those pesky little flies at a summer picnic—annoying, omnipresent, and difficult to swat away. One of the most immediate challenges that new Linux users face is the formidable learning curve. Unlike the user-friendly interfaces of proprietary operating systems, Linux can feel like a maze designed by someone with questionable intentions. For the uninitiated, the command line might appear as an ancient script etched on a stone tablet. It’s not uncommon for beginners to experience bouts of frustration reminiscent of a toddler trying to solve a Rubik's Cube. WAT? for one, i have never seriously used windows, and every time i do, i feel like the above. what does that tell you? for one, part of the problem is in the switch itself and in dealing with problems in an unfamiliar system. that goes for any switch, whether it is to linux, to mac, to windows or anything else. for two, i actually believe that linux is easier to use than windows. on linux, when i have a problem, i actually get help and answers. on windows when i have a problem, i often simply can't find any solution, because it's not FOSS and many solutions depend on microsoft who does not care to fix them. on linux, when problems amount that an app developer does not want to fix we get a fork. and also this: Another common myth claims that all Linux distributions are command-line driven and devoid of graphical interfaces. Spoiler alert: that’s as far from the truth as you can get. yet a few paragraphs earlier there is the following: Think of it as a workout for your brain; you’re trading intuitive GUI interactions for the raw, exhilarating power of the command line. which one is it now? Many popular applications, especially proprietary ones, do not have direct Linux versions but no mention of wine? and how some windows apps run even more stable under wine than they run on windows? i have yet to find any windows program that i needed or wanted to use that i could not run under wine. and most of the ones i did use are games. your favorite video game might not run as seamlessly not true in my experience. again, no mention of steam. why? in summary, this article claims to clean up myths and misconceptions, yet it is perpetuating them.
MichaelRo 2y ago
I do use Ubuntu Desktop (22 LTS now, went through 16 and 18) on one of my laptops but I also have Windows and must say, even as a power user Linux sucks compared to Windows. I got constant bugs over time, I can't place a breakpoint directly in the Java Swing GUI thread because it will block my entire desktop, completely dead, so I have to ctrl+alt+fX login to a different virtual desktop and kill the Java process. No such bug on Windows. Also the browser sometimes gets crazy, jitters or something, I have to kill it and restart the app, not to mention the weird "chromium" processes taking up 100% of CPU that pop up every time I try to visit Yahoo Finance. On games, which is the main strongpoint of Windows, I installed Counterstrike 2 and it would work .. provided I unplug the second monitor and run it on the small laptop one. There's no way to tell what happens if I leave the second monitor on, all hell breaks loose and I have to physically turn off the power to be able to reboot the machine. I can no longer connect to the internet using the (faster) wired connection because a bug in the RTL8111/8168/8411 driver. I tried everything, update, configure, still unusable, works enything from seconds to half an hour then it's dead. On top of that, the WiFi connection also drops occasionally, it sometimes reverts when I turn off / turn it on from UI, but often I have to reboot to have it work again. Needless to say on Windows both wired and wifi work flawlessly. So on a 2022 release of the most popular desktop Linux distribution, both the UI and connectivity are nigh-unusable to someone who actually knows their way around computers. And you want regular people switching from Windows and MacOS. Not gonna happen.
e-clinton 2y ago
For the first time ever, I managed to run Linux on a primary machine for a year. Before that, either issues with software or hardware would consistently have me through my hands up and give up. While it was pleasant while it lastly, I ended up reinstalling Windows on my Surface Pro 9 since the machine began randomly freezing after installing a set of updates (I was running Ubuntu with SurfaceLinux kernel). Surprisingly, Windows with WSL has been more pleasant to use than I remember. I haven’t run Windows in 10+ years, but so far im encouraged to continue trying it.
Christian_A 2y ago
Switching to the linux world 20 years ago was one of the best decissions I ever made. What I learnt on the way is absolutely priceless. Thanks go out to all OSS developers!

71 points by BimJeam 2y ago

Break free from commercial vendor lock-ins and start using free systems. What do you think, is it inevitable these days?

allears 2y ago

Unfortunately, there aren't any Linux drivers for the audio hardware I use. The hardware replacement cost to switch to Linux would be prohibitive. I also would have a much narrower choice of audio and DAW apps.

synack 2y ago
Could you email the hardware vendor and ask nicely for Linux support? They won’t develop it if customers aren’t asking.
badosu 2y ago
I had a great time with bitwig as a daw, no idea about the hardware issue though

1970-01-01 2y ago

Linux in a nutshell: Just awful in a laptop, meh in a desktop, and first-class as a server.

belter 2y ago
This comment is unworthy of your user name. The modern experience of Linux is miles ahead of Windows and as good as Mac: https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-4-best-linux-desktops-based-on-gnome-and-what-i-most-like-about-each-one/ https://www.zdnet.com/article/the-4-best-linux-desktops-base...
- talldayo 2y ago
  It seems like the perception that MacOS and Windows are miles apart in quality stems from the two ends of the horseshoe theory refusing to admit they're next-door neighbors.
- 1970-01-01 2y ago
  'the modern experience' is dogshit sliding down a wet stick for laptops. average it all out.
  - d3Xt3r 2y ago
    As a ThinkPad user, I disagree. I've been using Linux (Fedora + Arch) on my Z13 Gen 1 for three years now and it's been a first-class experience. Everything worked out-of-the-box, with literally zero issues. I can't think of a single thing that I'd want to improve, from a laptop user's perspective. For me, this is the definitive Linux laptop experience. I had a similarly good experience with my previous laptop, an HP Elite Dragonfly. Only niggle was that not all bits of firmware was upgradable via fwupd, so I had to ocassionally boot into Windows to do the firmware updates. But other than that, I don't recollect any issues with it either. And I'm sure the laptop experience is equally good on "native" Linux laptops, such as the ones from System76, Slimbook, Tuxedo etc. So to make a blanket statement like "'the modern experience' is dogshit sliding down a wet stick for laptops", is pretty disingenuous and very disrespectful towards all the developers who've worked so hard on making Linux viable.
    - 1970-01-01 2y ago
      It is disingenuous, yet also accurate. HN mostly agrees: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32964519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=32964519 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42569926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42569926 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42122686 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=42122686
      - eth0up 2y ago
        I've never used anything but Linux on the 20 or so laptops I've gone through. Suspend can be an issue, fan control can be suboptimal, but the only thing I find intolerable is the touchpad, so I use a mouse. I've had one or two bad laptops, but most were sufficient. If I had a laptop presently, it would be running Linux.
syntacticbs 2y ago
I run Linux on my laptop and desktop and have a MacBook. I wouldn't recommend it for your laptop unless you're an enthusiast. Suspend/sleep is still janky, power saving is poor and dock support is hit and miss depending on the day. And this is after applying a lot of tweaks. For desktop it's fantastic and I would recommend. It's not without some issues but what OSes is actually without any issues. For server, I can't imagine using anything else.
- d3Xt3r 2y ago
  As a ThinkPad Z13 user, I've had none of the issues you've described. I've been running Linux (Fedora + Arch) on it for three years now and it's been a first-class experience. Everything worked out-of-the-box, with literally zero issues. I can't think of a single thing that I'd want to improve, from a laptop user's perspective. For me, this is the definitive Linux laptop experience. I had a similarly good experience with my previous laptop, an HP Elite Dragonfly. Only niggle was that not all bits of firmware was upgradable via fwupd, so I had to ocassionally boot into Windows to do the firmware updates. But other than that, I don't recollect any issues with it either, suspend/resume/power management all worked as good as Windows. In fact, battery life was better than Windows when I applied powertop's tweaks. And I'm sure the laptop experience is equally good on "native" Linux laptops, such as the ones from System76, Slimbook, Tuxedo etc. So personally, I wouldn't make a blanket statement like "I wouldn't recommend it for your laptop unless you're an enthusiast". To be clear, I'm not claiming that the issues you describe don't exist, but at least for laptops known for having official support for Linux, the experience should be good.
  - tmtvl 2y ago
    I have a Slimbook Elemental 15 (or some such) and it's crap. The keyboard has a backlight you can change the colour of... with an application which is only available on specific distros (it isn't even on the AUR) and even then half the time it doesn't work. Its audio system is also fucked, if you plug in headphones tte thing will play from the headphones at the volume of the speakers. The system doesn't see the headphones, it only has a generic audio output and switching between speakers and headphones happens IN HARDWARE. The battery life ain't great, though I don't know about hibernate 'cause I ain't wasting 32 gigs on swap. Suspend seems to work fine, though I don't know how much power it'd drain over the course of, say, a night.
Terr_ 2y ago
Ubuntu works fine on the Dell XPS 15 9500 laptop I use for work. It came preinstalled with Windows, but I shrank the partition so I can dual boot. (Having all data encrypted-at-rest was a requirement which made things a little trickier.) The only weirdness I've encountered is some crashing in some lid-open-or-closed software, probably because I tried to make sure it wouldn't sleep just because I wanted to carry it to a conference room.
kjellsbells 2y ago
Presumably because servers have components that are predictable and stable over their production runs, whereas laptops seem to be assembled out of whatever bits the supplier has on hand that week?
- dehrmann 2y ago
  There are two main issues. Servers are configured differently (config files, puppet) with static configs. This works great for server deployments. On laptops, too much is always changing--new networks, powering on and off, etc. The other issue is yes, drivers, but not only because of supplier pressure. There seem to be more peripheral devices (sound, webcam, bluetooth) from low-end vendors, so the devices are buggier and less likely to get support. Servers care about disk and network. There aren't as many vendors, and the have incentives to have decent Linux support.
7mediaws 2y ago
I always buy Lenovo laptops. Never really had an issue until the latest Lenovo I purchased. The suspend/sleep gets weird sometimes. Other than that, I am pretty satisfied with my dev box.
Marsymars 2y ago
Asides from what sibling comments have mentioned, this is in large part true for me because I've yet to experience a Linux desktop environment that I've found to be great from a UI perspective. On a server, that's not applicable.
Zamiel_Snawley 2y ago
In my experience, Linux works quite well on laptops that are intended to run it. I’ve only tried the System 76 Lemur Pro and the Framework 13, both of which worked smoothly. The Framework has better build quality, and I can wholeheartedly recommend it to anyone who wants to try a Linux laptop.
- gbin 2y ago
  Framework has been rock solid—I've had it since the first batch, and it's worked flawlessly across three mainboards, two screens, and two webcams (all upgraded along the way). Arch Linux ran without a hitch. KDE on Wayland is now incredibly polished and, surprisingly, a far better UX for me on a laptop than Apple's.
- thastings 2y ago
  I can add that Linux is also pretty solid on Asus machines well, despite the company actively advocating for MS on their sites. I have an old G46, some i7-1065 Zenbook Flip, and a newish Zenbook with a 6800U. All of them running Debian 12 with GNOME or KDE, all hardware components supported. That also includes the sensors for tablet mode in the Flip! Also used to have an 8000 series Intel AsusPro something, same good support. It takes around 1 to 2 years for the kernel to catch up on more stable distros, but I can wholeheartedly recommend Asus laptops for Linux use.
sho_hn 2y ago
I'm heavily biased and an expert user, but I do also have a Mac from work, and my Linux laptop genuinely is more trouble-free with docking and Bluetooth acrobatics than the Mac (a M1 MBP). Every time the Mac decides today's another day when flipping it shut will randomly also disable the external display, I get a little more frustrated, or when it's dumb about not switching my headphones out of bi-directional headset mode to a HQ audio profile once a call ends. These things are just flawless on my Linux system. Battery life on the M1 Mac is absolutely stellar and probably about double of the Intel-based Linux one, though, which I agree is a valid deciding factor for quite a few users because it can really change how you go about your day.
dismalaf 2y ago
Dunno, I've had no issues running Linux on laptops for the last 15 years. Had a ThinkPad, a cheapish Acer and now an MSI. All ran Linux flawlessly. My current MSI laptop even has a touchscreen, stylus and fingerprint reader. Everything works flawlessly. I'd give this laptop to my grandma even. It's great to use. Gives me zero trouble, can't say the same for my wife's Windows laptop.

dehrmann 2y ago

I'm in the middle of sorting out my next laptop (leaning towards an M4 Macbook). I've used a Thinkpad for years, but the the product direction of Windows has been annoying, and while WSL is decent, it's not great. Someone suggested I try Linux, and I did. This was on a 6-year-old X1 Carbon, so it's relatively well-supported. I ran into a few hard blockers. 1) Couldn't pair my Airpods Pro after 15 minutes of googling 2) Would get stuck on the lock screen on resume, sometimes for a minute, sometimes indefinitely 3) VMware kernel modules were a headache 4) Occasional lockups (could have been VMware modules). The soft blockers were 1) Less consistent UI than Windows 2) Poor hidpi support (but it's improved) 3) The UI feels 5% off in a lot of ways, and I'm not sure how to describe it 4) full-disk-encryption is an adventure. I didn't even make it to testing my webcam.

deleted 2y ago
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ghthor 2y ago
Touching on UI. My experience is the opposite. I started by installing Xubuntu so XFCE desktop. I wanted the GUI shell to be fast and low reasources, and choose XFCE. 16 years later and my desktop shell is the same traveling with me through district hopping to Arch and now NixOS. Same UI and no one’s aiming to change it. Disk encryption, straightforward luks w/ pass phrase. Setup was 3 terminal commands and and done. Pretty sure the GUI installers you just enter a passphrase and it’s done. All the knobs are available if the default isn’t good enough, using a key file on an external disk, etc. Poor hdpi is real, it’s bound to change as us old graybeards finally get new monitors

zb3 2y ago

Normal people will probably not read these long essays, but they might complain about their M$ OS getting worse.. and that is a great opportunity to present linux as the solution (because it is), you can then explain how programs they use will continue to work (it's 2025, they will in most cases) and how there's nothing to fear. For me, it actually worked! Of course I did offer some help just in case she got stuck or something, but it went relatively smoothly.

Dalewyn 2y ago
>you can then explain how programs they use will continue to work Microsoft Office and games. No, not LibreOffice and Tux Racer. Wine has gotten a lot better compared to years past, but if you need/want Windows software you still need Windows. You also only get one shot at convincing them, since first impressions are everything. A better argument might be recommending MacOS, at least Microsoft Office works just fine there. Also, if you're using esoteric hardware: Forget it.
- zb3 2y ago
  > Microsoft Office and games. No, not LibreOffice and Tux Racer. Not everyone will be as displeased with LibreOffice since not everyone uses MS Office professionally.. I'd argue further: for MOST people this is acceptable! > Wine has gotten a lot better compared to years past, but if you need/want Windows software you still need Windows. Not the case for PhotoScape for example (which was on the "required" list in this case). Also fortunately more and more programs are cross-platform, and again, for MOST people they're acceptable. > Also, if you're using esoteric hardware: Forget it. What?? It was the opposite, Linux doesn't require TPM, runs fine on older laptops and even runs faster with lighter DE's..
  - freeone3000 2y ago
    ok, but what if you need something off-the-wall, like a scanner?
    - 2y ago

rednafi 2y ago

I loathe macOS but stick with it mostly for the hardware. I use a beefed-up 16-inch M3 Max for work and a baseline 15-inch MacBook Air for writing and OSS work. I love the Air’s hardware and wouldn’t trade it for anything. Before switching to Mac, I was running a maxed-out 16-inch Dell XPS and enjoyed using Ubuntu and Pop!_OS on it. But the hardware just wasn’t there—the trackpad felt cheap, and the keyboard would creak. There were just too many small issues for such an expensive device. Otherwise, macOS is bloated, slow, and has horrible window management. I also prefer GNU tooling over BSD, and having to install everything separately is an extra hassle. Plus, it’s getting more restrictive over the years, which I’m not a fan of.

al_borland 2y ago
The other advantage I see to macOS is commercial app support. Like it or not, it can be a fact of life for many. Photoshop users don’t want to use GIMP. While Electron has made Linux on the desktop much more viable in this respect, there is are some key apps that macOS has where Linux is lacking. And of course there is also working between mobile and desktop, which macOS/iOS seem to do best. Part of me longs for the days when this wasn’t a concern, but this is a big thing these days and makes running Linux on my main computer a problem.
- rufus_foreman 2y ago
  >> Photoshop users don’t want to use GIMP GIMP users don't want to use Photoshop.
- bobajeff 2y ago
  Linux actually has some commercial apps available. Though I'm not sure how they compare to their Mac and Windows versions. Yes some apps aren't available but that's true of Mac as well, though to a lesser extent.
- tap-snap-or-nap 2y ago
  A lot of free software have a huge learning curve but the payoff long term is always much more than sticking with commercial software which gets nerfed and eventually subscription model with few feature additions and many subtractions.

codr7 2y ago

Currently stuck in WSL2 on my Thinkpad, newish hardware that could use some more updates before jumping ship.

christophilus 2y ago

I’ll chime in with a different anecdote than all the whiny ones. Fedora + Niri on a Dell XPS is great. Stock Fedora + Gnome is also great. I don’t miss Windows or OSX at all. The games I care to play work fine thanks to Proton. I don’t care about Adobe or MS Office. If you don’t care about those, either, then find a laptop with good Linux support and decent build quality and come on. It’s more than fine.

megous 2y ago

Except that for user freedom I think the best distro for Linux beginers would be somehting simple with good docs like Slackware or LFS, not the super-complex windows wannabe distros like Fedora or Ubuntu. It's much more welcomming, with very little ceremony around building and modifying packages.

DaSHacka 2y ago
Missing the "/s"
- megous 2y ago
  No. Slackware was my first distro after MS-DOS and Windows 95/2000 and the benefit was that it was a really simple thing, conceptually, and quite malleable. So if someone's suggesting a distro that's good for "reclaiming your freedom", then one of the simplest distros out there, made and maintained by a single person and well docummented, but still challenging enough that you end up learning something, should be a legitimate way to go.
  - megous 2y ago
    And LFS is of course explicitly in this space. You basically build your own OS. But Slackware has much smaller initial commitment, so I'd think it would be better to start.

BimJeam 2y ago

Wow thanks people, that is a lot of comments. I really value that and most of your points are valid. It is interesting to see all these new insights from users like you!

waltercool 2y ago

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dismalaf 2y ago

I kind of hate articles like this. I use Linux, I think it's great, I think everyone should use it. I don't think you need user skills to use it. Gnome is super friendly to use (although maybe it needs to make the dock visible by default). KDE isn't bad and is Windows-like. I don't think Linux is more complex than Windows. Folders are laid out in a common sense way. Ever tried uninstalling a Windows program that was installed in a weird way by some proprietary installer? I don't think normal users particularly need to care about OSS either, Linux is more than functional enough nowadays that it's a great choice merely for utility, ideology isn't needed. What's up with everyone thinking they need Photoshop/GIMP? Those are photo editing tools. For design/content creation Krita is the best tool for raster images by far... And NetBeans? Really? Is this article from 2005? IntelliJ Community is open-source. VSCode is kinda, VSCodium more so. Gnome Builder is really good now. So is QtCreator and KDevelop. Plus Vim/Neovim and Emacs, especially nowadays that distros make it easy to get started. Linux nerds still don't quite get normies... Here's my pitch: it's easier and less annoying than Windows. It's free. For normal everyday use, it has everything you need.

em-bee 2y ago
some quotes from the article: switching to Linux is not some stroll through a digital park. It’s more like trying to navigate a labyrinth blindfolded while simultaneously herding cats. The potential drawbacks are like those pesky little flies at a summer picnic—annoying, omnipresent, and difficult to swat away. One of the most immediate challenges that new Linux users face is the formidable learning curve. Unlike the user-friendly interfaces of proprietary operating systems, Linux can feel like a maze designed by someone with questionable intentions. For the uninitiated, the command line might appear as an ancient script etched on a stone tablet. It’s not uncommon for beginners to experience bouts of frustration reminiscent of a toddler trying to solve a Rubik's Cube. WAT? for one, i have never seriously used windows, and every time i do, i feel like the above. what does that tell you? for one, part of the problem is in the switch itself and in dealing with problems in an unfamiliar system. that goes for any switch, whether it is to linux, to mac, to windows or anything else. for two, i actually believe that linux is easier to use than windows. on linux, when i have a problem, i actually get help and answers. on windows when i have a problem, i often simply can't find any solution, because it's not FOSS and many solutions depend on microsoft who does not care to fix them. on linux, when problems amount that an app developer does not want to fix we get a fork. and also this: Another common myth claims that all Linux distributions are command-line driven and devoid of graphical interfaces. Spoiler alert: that’s as far from the truth as you can get. yet a few paragraphs earlier there is the following: Think of it as a workout for your brain; you’re trading intuitive GUI interactions for the raw, exhilarating power of the command line. which one is it now? Many popular applications, especially proprietary ones, do not have direct Linux versions but no mention of wine? and how some windows apps run even more stable under wine than they run on windows? i have yet to find any windows program that i needed or wanted to use that i could not run under wine. and most of the ones i did use are games. your favorite video game might not run as seamlessly not true in my experience. again, no mention of steam. why? in summary, this article claims to clean up myths and misconceptions, yet it is perpetuating them.

MichaelRo 2y ago

I do use Ubuntu Desktop (22 LTS now, went through 16 and 18) on one of my laptops but I also have Windows and must say, even as a power user Linux sucks compared to Windows. I got constant bugs over time, I can't place a breakpoint directly in the Java Swing GUI thread because it will block my entire desktop, completely dead, so I have to ctrl+alt+fX login to a different virtual desktop and kill the Java process. No such bug on Windows. Also the browser sometimes gets crazy, jitters or something, I have to kill it and restart the app, not to mention the weird "chromium" processes taking up 100% of CPU that pop up every time I try to visit Yahoo Finance. On games, which is the main strongpoint of Windows, I installed Counterstrike 2 and it would work .. provided I unplug the second monitor and run it on the small laptop one. There's no way to tell what happens if I leave the second monitor on, all hell breaks loose and I have to physically turn off the power to be able to reboot the machine. I can no longer connect to the internet using the (faster) wired connection because a bug in the RTL8111/8168/8411 driver. I tried everything, update, configure, still unusable, works enything from seconds to half an hour then it's dead. On top of that, the WiFi connection also drops occasionally, it sometimes reverts when I turn off / turn it on from UI, but often I have to reboot to have it work again. Needless to say on Windows both wired and wifi work flawlessly. So on a 2022 release of the most popular desktop Linux distribution, both the UI and connectivity are nigh-unusable to someone who actually knows their way around computers. And you want regular people switching from Windows and MacOS. Not gonna happen.

e-clinton 2y ago

For the first time ever, I managed to run Linux on a primary machine for a year. Before that, either issues with software or hardware would consistently have me through my hands up and give up. While it was pleasant while it lastly, I ended up reinstalling Windows on my Surface Pro 9 since the machine began randomly freezing after installing a set of updates (I was running Ubuntu with SurfaceLinux kernel). Surprisingly, Windows with WSL has been more pleasant to use than I remember. I haven’t run Windows in 10+ years, but so far im encouraged to continue trying it.

Christian_A 2y ago

Switching to the linux world 20 years ago was one of the best decissions I ever made. What I learnt on the way is absolutely priceless. Thanks go out to all OSS developers!